Why doesnt god kill Satan?

[Danmac]

Well I beg to differ, but in any case there's a hella difference between a rod and an AK-47. A loving father does not deliberately murder his child. But again, I'm an atheist, so I may see parenting different than you do.

God gives his children the kingdom of heaven.

Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Sorry I wont see you there.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God gives his children the kingdom of heaven.

Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Sorry I wont see you there.

You honestly have no idea how to answer these question, do you?

 

[Etritonakin]

I would like to know the reason.Is god testing us?or is Satan more powerful than God?


Thanks.

God does not kill Satan because God loves Satan -though there is much more to the story.

God is responsible for the circumstances which allowed Satan to come to exist.
God actually created the being Lucifer -the cherub who eventually became the "devil" (Satan -adversary) -but did not create him as an adversary. He did knowingly allow it to potentially happen by creating this cherub with creativity -which requires the ability to make choices. Add to this the fact that he was a new creature -essentially ignorant (though extremely powerful and talented) -and the potential then existed for him to question God. God told him what was good to do -and not good to do -and he travelled to suspect that God was trying to keep him from becoming something greater -by keeping him from knowing both good AND evil. God knew both good and evil, because he had designed all things and knew what would do harm. Satan set out to prove his theory -and used his position (as one of three archangels over a third of all the other angels) to deceive a third of the angels -and lead a coup against the throne of God. These are what we know as the demons.

Essentially, Lucifer (now Satan) is no different than any other sinner -except in power, and most importantly, intent. Some sin ignorantly -some sin wilfully (Sin is defined as the transgression of the law of God). He was simply the first to do so.

God does not want any of those he created to be destroyed -or to destroy.
However, any who refuse to obey God (which causes destruction, as his law is based on what exists) will eventually be destroyed if they do not turn from their ways.

God will not allow destruction to continue indefinitely -whether by man or demon...

...but he has allowed Satan and the demons to affect mankind -just as he allows us to affect each other -so that we all might learn from the experience. We were all once completely ignorant -and travel to understand. It is an extremely harsh lesson, but there is nothing that we can destroy which God cannot renew -no harm that cannot be healed -no pain that cannot eventually be removed from memory once the lesson is learned.

A very good example is the book of Job.

Job was a pretty righteous dude -one of the most righteous, in fact.
Then God brought up the subject of Job to Satan -not the other way around!
Satan did not disturb God wanting to harm Job, but God had it in his mind to teach both Job AND SATAN a valuable lesson.
God asked Satan if he had considered his servant Job.
Satan said Job obeyed God because God blessed him -and if he cursed him, Job would also curse God.
So God allowed Satan to do some very bad things to Job and his family.
Notice that Satan needed God's permission to do anything to Job.
God is in control. No demon or man can do anything unless God allows it -and he allows it knowing he can eventually heal it -and that if we do not experience the fruits of evil it will always be a temptation.

The only way to eventually COMPLETELY remove the temptation to do evil is to experience it (for those who are not willing to simply "do the math" in their heads -and the two thirds of the angels which did not sin are seeing the example without doing it.) God did not force us to do evil -but knew it was inevitable that someone eventualluy chose to do so. So he prepared for the eventuality -and can make it right. As we are creative beings, making it right requires that we CHOOSE right -and he can also help us make that choice.

We actually give Satan more power over us than we do God when we refuse to obey God -but God is still in control -and has declared the end from the beginning.

Some might think it blasphemous, but if Satan were to truly repent, God would accept him. God views him as we would an errant child.
However, he does have a choice -and if any absolutely refuse, they will be removed from the equation.

God did not have to allow Satan and the demons to affect us -but does so for a purpose -and will later make all things new -and wipe away all tears.

...then he will make us like himself -with the same sort of body and creative power.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Autodidact]

God gives his children the kingdom of heaven.

Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Sorry I wont see you there.

Of course not, you won't see anyone anywhere. You'll be dead.

So what you're saying is that in your value system killing people is not bad, because they get to go to heaven? Unless, of course, they don't.

Interesting value system you've got there.

Do you have any children, Danmac?

 

[Danmac]

Of course not, you won't see anyone anywhere. You'll be dead.

Evidence for your position?

So what you're saying is that in your value system killing people is not bad, because they get to go to heaven? Unless, of course, they don't.

I try to operate on God's value system. I do believe in justice. The penalty is up to the powers that be, not me. I don't concern myself with that which is not my business.

Do you have any children, Danmac?

Not any more, there adults.

 

[McBell]

Evidence for your position?

It does not work that way.
See you have to prove it false.
Until you do so, it is just as true as the existence of your god.

 

[Autodidact]

Evidence for your position?

First, evidence for yours?

I try to operate on God's value system. I do believe in justice. The penalty is up to the powers that be, not me. I don't concern myself with that which is not my business.

In the value system you operate under, which you call God's, would you please answer the question?

Not any more, there adults.

Would it bother you if I killed them?

 

[McBell]

I try to operate on God's value system. I do believe in justice. The penalty is up to the powers that be, not me. I don't concern myself with that which is not my business.

Now we are left to wondering whether you refuse to accept responsibility for the value system you claim to operate under or if you think that claiming that the value system you operate under is Gods somehow gives said value system some sort extra special preference?

 

[Danmac]

First, evidence for yours?

Atheism

In the value system you operate under, which you call God's, would you please answer the question?

Would you please not make me have to keep repeating myself?

Would it bother you if I killed them?

I doubt that it would bother you.

 

[Beaudreaux]

This, like so much of Christian thought, is completely inconsistent with itself. My favorite passage (emphasis added):

God does not want any of those he created to be destroyed -or to destroy.
However, any who refuse to obey God...will eventually be destroyed if they do not turn from their ways.

As you know, passive verbs are the bane of scholarship. Here is how to write that passage with proper, active verbs.

God does not want any of those he created to be destroyed -or to destroy.
However, God will destroy any who refuse to obey Him if they do not turn from their ways.
​

Now that is one big, steaming, stinky pile of reasoning.

 

[Orias]

God gives his children the kingdom of heaven.

Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Sorry I wont see you there.

So you do claim part of the flock, however big it may be.

So scripture does dictate your life?

Who are you to deny others their right to Heaven?

Isn't that the judgement of your 'God', whom is superior to you and tells you who gets in and who doesn't?

You have no right to condemn, simply because you do not know the individuals in which you condemn.

I will make a simple analogy

When bird hunting you pick and chose your shot, and you do not shoot at the flock.

Seems the best thing for you to do would be to :run:

Because I know a lot of bird hunters

Heaven and Hell, it's all the same. If these places truly did exist no one would condemn themselves.

Fly south for the season to seek refuge from the winter cold. It is animal instinct to migrate where their needs are best fit.

Just so happens that my man Belial dwells in South.

You cannot escape the grasp of malignance, since you yourself show signs of Satanic deeds.

God's and Satan's values are the same, as long as you see the mirror in which both were created.

Is one side of the coin any better than the other?

They both hold the same value right?

The literal meaning for Satan is Advesary, or Opposition.

God is an Advesary and in Opposition to Satan, and vice versa.

Therefore they are both Satanic.

The very nature of our ways is Satanic. The winds whisper His name, to spread the fire amongst the Earth.

No matter how powerful your God is, he himself cannot escape the malignance of his own nature. For he too has contradicted his own ways.

Here is a few quotes that some of you guys could pick apart...

"Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none.”

It was my understanding that God offered salvation.

“Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid...for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.”

Doesn't God want you to fear him? It was my understanding that God let Satan deprive a few select men of their love and values to try and tempt them. Though they did not give in, they still held faith in God, yet God let all of those horrible things happen to them. If your bestfriend stole you wife...would you not consider him an ingrate and feel forsaken by him?

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”

Nonsense. It is easier for the needle to go through the eye of the camel, rather than a homeless person winning the lottery. Does the Church not sit on the wealth you give it? Does giving the Church money get you into Heaven? If so, then will the Church go to Heaven because of it's wealth? :biglaugh:

"Everything is possible for him who believes.”
Mark 9:23

I believe in difference, is that possible? Apparantly so.

Note to you.

Scripture is not a logical argument, for scripture can be picked apart and percieved in different manners.

Why should life be dictated to go to Heaven or Hell, since we do not have the choice to be brought into existence?

To claim fairness is more than treason.

God cannot kill Satan, because God is of Satan.

 

[Etritonakin]

This, like so much of Christian thought, is completely inconsistent with itself. My favorite passage (emphasis added):

As you know, passive verbs are the bane of scholarship. Here is how to write that passage with proper, active verbs.

God does not want any of those he created to be destroyed -or to destroy.
However, God will destroy any who refuse to obey Him if they do not turn from their ways.
​

Now that is one big, steaming, stinky pile of reasoning.

...which can be summed up in the word "law". Men understand its necessity -and also isolate and destroy those who refuse to obey -except that man and his laws/ legal system/reasons for warring are imperfect. The reasoning is valid and necessary -but only executed (no pun intended) correctly by God -because to obey him is to cause peace and happiness -and to disobey him is to destroy.

 

[Beaudreaux]

...which can be summed up in the word "law". Men understand its necessity -and also isolate and destroy those who refuse to obey -except that man and his laws/ legal system/reasons for warring are imperfect. The reasoning is valid and necessary -but only executed (no pun intended) correctly by God -because to obey him is to cause peace and happiness -and to disobey him is to destroy.

Hmmmmm. Who made these laws I wonder?

 

[Danmac]

So you do claim part of the flock, however big it may be.

According to the Bible I am part of the flock. All my chips are on Yeshua Ha-Mashiach

So scripture does dictate your life?

Yes

Who are you to deny others their right to Heaven?

I don't. If they don't make it is is because they refused their eternal pardon. IMO

Isn't that the judgement of your 'God', whom is superior to you and tells you who gets in and who doesn't?

Forgiveness or the lack thereof determines who gets in and who doesn't.

You have no right to condemn, simply because you do not know the individuals in which you condemn.

I am not God. I condemn no one.

Heaven and Hell, it's all the same. If these places truly did exist no one would condemn themselves.

If you refuse the pardon that Jesus is offering you, then you choose to condemn yourself. IMO

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Fly south for the season to seek refuge from the winter cold. It is animal instinct to migrate where their needs are best fit.

Just so happens that my man Belial dwells in South.

You cannot escape the grasp of malignance, since you yourself show signs of Satanic deeds.

God's and Satan's values are the same, as long as you see the mirror in which both were created.

Is one side of the coin any better than the other?

They both hold the same value right?

The literal meaning for Satan is Advesary, or Opposition.

God is an Advesary and in Opposition to Satan, and vice versa.

Therefore they are both Satanic.

The very nature of our ways is Satanic. The winds whisper His name, to spread the fire amongst the Earth.

No matter how powerful your God is, he himself cannot escape the malignance of his own nature. For he too has contradicted his own ways.

The problem is that God is God and satan is not. Satan wants to play God, but he's just not God.

Here is a few quotes that some of you guys could pick apart...

"Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none.”

It was my understanding that God offered salvation.

This verse does not pertain to eternity. It pertains to this life.

“Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid...for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.”

Doesn't God want you to fear him? It was my understanding that God let Satan deprive a few select men of their love and values to try and tempt them. Though they did not give in, they still held faith in God, yet God let all of those horrible things happen to them.

We should fear the absence of God in our life. Not His presence. In His absence is darkness.

If your bestfriend stole you wife...would you not consider him an ingrate and feel forsaken by him?

God never stole my wife.

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”

Nonsense. It is easier for the needle to go through the eye of the camel, rather than a homeless person winning the lottery. Does the Church not sit on the wealth you give it? Does giving the Church money get you into Heaven? If so, then will the Church go to Heaven because of it's wealth? :biglaugh:

This is a metaphor. It is human nature to reject God when we become self sufficient. That is why people generally find God during times of great crisis. As far as money. I wish many churches would go broke. Maybe then they would get serious.

"Everything is possible for him who believes.”

Mark 9:23

I believe in difference, is that possible? Apparantly so.

Everything that is paralell to the will of God. That should be obvious.

1st John 5:14 ¶ And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Note to you.

Scripture is not a logical argument, for scripture can be picked apart and percieved in different manners.

Why should life be dictated to go to Heaven or Hell, since we do not have the choice to be brought into existence?

To claim fairness is more than treason.

God cannot kill Satan, because God is of Satan.

That is your perception. However, the writers of the Bbile intended to convey particular things in their writings. It is up to us to find exactly what that is.

 

[ahmed.zafar]

This world is just a test for the after life and if there will be no satan then their would not have been any crime.

 

[Orias]

According to the Bible I am part of the flock. All my chips are on Yeshua Ha-Mashiach

So then you are part of a mass perception. Only able to see what you chose, and not what is given by nature.

Note: I apologize for the long post. I realize not all eyes are willing to read this.

Yes

Then how do you comprehend yourself? Yourself is different from scripture, you of all people should know this Danmac. For I know your strong will, yet your purpose is lost to frailty.

I don't. If they don't make it is is because they refused their eternal pardon. IMO

I am sorry you made the statement to Autodidact, "God gives his children the kingdom of heaven.

Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Sorry I wont see you there."

I must of misinterpreted what you meant by "sorry I won't see you there." That sounds like condemning to me.

Forgiveness or the lack thereof determines who gets in and who doesn't.

But who are you to say that? You can forgive someone for their wrong, but still deny them of their friendship with you.

I am not God. I condemn no one.

If you refuse the pardon that Jesus is offering you, then you choose to condemn yourself. IMO

Ah, but you see the mind in which your creations are expressed do deem you worthy of 'divine spiritual' status. For your faith withers with time, but your expressed creations will always be visible to the generations that are.

What exactly is the pardon that Jesus offers though? Could you not give yourself a better deal?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Ok, well first of all, I do see life, for I am alive. What is this wrath you speak of? How can one speak of a truth that no one has witnessed? Not even you knows death. We all know of it, but we do not know it. No life can ever be everlasting, since life is the absence of nothing.

Think of Life and Nothingness as two sides of a coin like your God and Satan. One could not exist without the other. Because if nothing existed then our perceptions of nothing would not exist and it would just be.

Take the presence of now for example. No God is needed to give morality to man, as morality and carnal instinct are just given words to our natural way of life.

Man knows that man must not destroy each other. Yet they do, for the simple sake of survival. For the role of dominance and vengeance plays a key role in survival.

If a man is determined on killing your family, would you not stop him? Sometimes a death is needed in order to save a few lifes. I believe you know this Danmac.

No shape nor shadow seeks a path, they just simply exist.

The problem is that God is God and satan is not. Satan wants to play God, but he's just not God.

Why can't Satan be God? The names differ, their purpose does not. Why can't up be down, when in fact if your are upside down, up is rightside up? Do you not see?

These labels do not matter, for they only exist because we deem them worthy to exist.

Just like Harry Potter, or the Lord of the Rings. You can't deny them of their existence, because they do in fact exist. Be it so in a book, but the bible is no different.

This verse does not pertain to eternity. It pertains to this life.

Is this life not part of the so called 'eternity'? Even so, God does not offer salvation in the life we have no choice to exist in. Folly.

We should fear the absence of God in our life. Not His presence. In His absence is darkness.

It was my understanding that many Catholics and Christians fear the being of God and not his absence. How could his absence be darkness, if Lucifer was mocked and desicrated. All beings see light, as it shines through the eyes! If no light existed no man could not see...metaphorically speaking the Blind shall lead the Blind.

What makes the Darkness so bad, if you use the light to your advantage, instead of being blinded by it.

I guess though, some people only see what they chose to see, instead of seeing what is.

God never stole my wife.

This is a metaphor. It is human nature to reject God when we become self sufficient. That is why people generally find God during times of great crisis. As far as money. I wish many churches would go broke. Maybe then they would get serious.

Everything that is paralell to the will of God. That should be obvious.

Hmm...I see. As some people find 'God' in times of crisis, some find opposition, who seems to me at least a more worthy and beneficial advesary to leading a gratifying life.

If it is human nature to reject God, then it should be self evident to you, that it is human nature to make up a God. As it is human nature to lust, hold honor, be gluttonous, be lazy, seek vengeance and protection, admire one's status, and with hold ones self.

For mercy is not truth, your sins are next to mine.

If it is the will of God for us to be, then it should be clear to you that it is the will of God for us to not be.

As a dog will always die with it's pack, it will die with it's own satisfaction and honor knowing, that it died along the side of the ones that it loved deeply.

The very status of the Church should be clear to you that even the strongest willed believers still succumb to their hipocrisy.

1st John 5:14 ¶ And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

You can pray and pray to God for your desire, which you seem to have ignorantly written. But praying itself is the expression of ones desire, which God does forsake you.

Praying for a bottle of soda does you no good, unless you get up off your arse and get it yourself. But then again, it wasn't God that got you that bottle of soda, it was you.

And sure, God does 'hear' that of which you pray to him, but this is only so because you believe that he does. Acknowledge that we are able to have conversations with ourselves within our own conscience.

Not many people are willing to admit such a thing however. But I tend to understand human psychology...

That is your perception. However, the writers of the Bbile intended to convey particular things in their writings. It is up to us to find exactly what that is.

It is my perception and you and I both know that we differ greatly from each other. But only if you chose to see such a thing.

As I see, that your mind has it's own way of twisting and manipulating things, as all beings do. You and I are the same, for our blood does flow as one.

It is stated in the Satanic bible, the best way to manipulate and control a mass is with confusing and unclear doctrines.

If the writers of the Bible intended to convey 'particular things' (which you never really made clear what those things are) then we would already know what those things are. But you yourself already stated, "it is up to us to find exactly what that is."

If you ask me the very writer of the Christian Bible is Satanic. You can chose not to see this, but it is clear that the Church is wealthier than you, and has you within it's grasp.

Whatever insidious claims you have about the Church doesn't really matter. For they claim the same as you.

Satan is, what you see. He is the very essence of your reason, simply because you give absence a label and a master.

The preservation in which you seek can only be found within yourself and life in which you dwell.

Danmac, a Satanist knows when he sees another brother...it is just the birth that you claim that separates fantasy from reality.

God did kill Satan, then he became it.

 

[Autodidact]

This world is just a test for the after life and if there will be no satan then their would not have been any crime.

Just want to highlight one of the things I think is so destructive about Abrahamic religious beliefs.

So, ahmed, why doesn't God kill satan?

 

[Orias]

This world is just a test for the after life and if there will be no satan then their would not have been any crime.

I beg to differ.

If it were not for your God then there would be no crimes, for only God expresses such laws to an uncontrolable nature.

Man knows guilt, he does not need such petty spiritual pipe dreams to tell him who and what he is.

Existence is vital, for there is always doubt in the human mind. No matter what truths were pushed upon them.

It is human to question.

The Will of our Mind is our own.

Therefore we make what we want of the Great Absence, the Opposition to Life, nothingness.

A test is a test to those who look at it as a test.
A game is a game to those who look at it as a game.
Life is what it is, because it is.

Nature rules over our obidience, thus we rule over ourselves.

Creating and destroying, the very way of nature. We are but a shimmering image in the water, splashed to distort our own selves.

God is God because you made it so. The only test is that of which you put yourself through.

 

[logician]

Another question might be, why doesn't Satan kill god?

 

[Orias]

Another question might be, why doesn't Satan kill god?

Satan is God