Why doesn't the Bible say what it means?

[McBell]

What makes you think GOD made a mistake ? God is dealing with uneducated (by Him) ignorant, selfwilled, stubborn, disobedient people and for THEIR sake he made changes so he would not have to destroy them before giving them EVERY chance to turn from evil. That means trying differnt ways with man perchance WE would eventually come to see GOD's ways. God is not forcing anyone yet has patience with us, not wanting anyone to perish.

So god did not make a mistake, he merely changed his mind?


So much for his being all knowing.

 

[PolyHedral]

What makes you think GOD made a mistake ? God is dealing with uneducated (by Him) ignorant, selfwilled, stubborn, disobedient people and for THEIR sake he made changes so he would not have to destroy them before giving them EVERY chance to turn from evil. That means trying differnt ways with man perchance WE would eventually come to see GOD's ways. God is not forcing anyone yet has patience with us, not wanting anyone to perish.

If He doesn't want anyone to perish, then why is He killing them?! And if we are uneducated, why doesn't He educate us? And guess who made us in the first place, and thus is to blame for the self-centeredness and stubbornness?

And a God who truly understood humanity would be able to lay down a single set of rules that do not need to be corrected. If they don't get obeyed, that would be a failure to communicate on God's part. After all, he is all-knowing, and so should be able to persuade anyone to do anything.

 

[Renji]

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

Mark 16:17-18:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”


What do you think would happen to me if I take that verse literally?

 

[Beta]

If He doesn't want anyone to perish, then why is He killing them?! And if we are uneducated, why doesn't He educate us? And guess who made us in the first place, and thus is to blame for the self-centeredness and stubbornness?

And a God who truly understood humanity would be able to lay down a single set of rules that do not need to be corrected. If they don't get obeyed, that would be a failure to communicate on God's part. After all, he is all-knowing, and so should be able to persuade anyone to do anything.

Perhaps we should each look at ourself as an example of obedience to his rules AND OUR FAILURE TO OBEY !
God has 10 Commandments - do YOU obey them ? If not what should God do to MAKE you ? What would make you obey of your own free will ??? The Bible is full of instructions and we can start with any.

 

[Beta]

So god did not make a mistake, he merely changed his mind?
So much for his being all knowing.

And why should God not change his mind and try us with different methods of teaching ?
You forget he is doing this FOR OUR BENEFIT. He already knows what is the best way but obviously man does not seem to grasp that fact even after living the ways that DON'T work.
Very soon now God will speak to man in no uncertain terms and we WILL KNOW what He is saying !:thud::yes:

 

[PolyHedral]

Perhaps we should each look at ourself as an example of obedience to his rules AND OUR FAILURE TO OBEY !
God has 10 Commandments - do YOU obey them ? If not what should God do to MAKE you ? What would make you obey of your own free will ??? The Bible is full of instructions and we can start with any.

God providing reasoning for following them that I believe is better than my current reasons not to follow some of them. It's not exactly hard to be provide that reasoning, if it exists.

 

[Beta]

God providing reasoning for following them that I believe is better than my current reasons not to follow some of them. It's not exactly hard to be provide that reasoning, if it exists.

It is not hard for God to provide the reasoning but hard for man to believe and obey it because of our fallen state THROUGH DISOBEDIENCE. Until we become obedient by our own free will and choice we can not really be helped.
To know and understand or grasp the reason behind what God does would require us knowing as much as God does !!! This can only happen if we learn from Him. Because we are barely Infants compared to God limited in both understanding and experience we need to start AT THE BEGINNING. You would not expect a Baby to understand the life of an adult would you , even if you explained it in great detail ??? And the beginning with God is the keeping of the Commandments. As we absorb and grow in them 2Pet.3v18,we can then be given more and more in understanding til we grow into perfection and unity with Christ Phil.2v5 who is our present authority.

 

[Father Heathen]

Seems you are 2000 years behind the times. Jesus introduced a different system.

But at one time god still apparently approved of and advocated the stoning of rape victims, regardless of Jesus' later revisions, so how do you excuse and justify it? How could such unjust barbarity have ever been righteous?

Luckily, even if there is/was a god the bible was nothing more than a sorry attempt by primitive goat herders to put words in god's mouth.

 

[Beta]

And a God who truly understood humanity would be able to lay down a single set of rules that do not need to be corrected.

A set of rules has been layed down that has never had to be corrected but churches have stopped teaching them.
The 10 Commandments were given by GOD (not Moses) Ex.20v1 and are still mentioned in Revelation , so they are hardly obsolete . Is that God's fault when he has given mankind 6 days to apply them into our lives Ex.20v9 ?
Remember he has also given us free will and choice Deut.30v19. :yes:

 

[Beta]

But at one time god still apparently approved of and advocated the stoning of rape victims, regardless of Jesus' later revisions, so how do you excuse and justify it? How could such unjust barbarity have ever been righteous?

Luckily, even if there is/was a god the bible was nothing more than a sorry attempt by primitive goat herders to put words in god's mouth.

Friend , you will have to level your accusations at GOD - not me. I don't feel it is my place to excuse or accuse God !

 

[Father Heathen]

Friend , you will have to level your accusations at GOD - not me. I don't feel it is my place to excuse or accuse God !

You claim the bible to be the genuine, righteous word of the lord, do you not? Are you unable to stand behind that claim and defend it? Personally, if I were god I would be greatly insulted by the attempt to attribute such foul rubbish like the bible to me. What makes you think god would need self appointed interpreters and middlemen to represent him, anyway?

 

[Beta]

You claim the bible to be the genuine, righteous word of the lord, do you not? Are you unable to stand behind that claim and defend it? Personally, if I were god I would be greatly insulted by the attempt to attribute such foul rubbish like the bible to me. What makes you think god would need self appointed interpreters and middlemen, anyway? Especially ancient savages at that?

Friend - you are entitled to your opinion !
That is all I have to say to you !!!

 

[Father Heathen]

Friend - you are entitled to your opinion !
That is all I have to say to you !!!

If you want to sell snake oil you gotta be persuasive.

 

[PolyHedral]

It is not hard for God to provide the reasoning but hard for man to believe and obey it because of our fallen state THROUGH DISOBEDIENCE. Until we become obedient by our own free will and choice we can not really be helped.

God has infinite knowledge. He can convince anyone of anything, given enough time. Disobedience doesn't come into it.

To know and understand or grasp the reason behind what God does would require us knowing as much as God does !!! This can only happen if we learn from Him. Because we are barely Infants compared to God limited in both understanding and experience we need to start AT THE BEGINNING. You would not expect a Baby to understand the life of an adult would you , even if you explained it in great detail ???

Actually, I would if the baby had spent 20 years learning about it...
And understanding the reasons why God does things does not require knowing everything, in the same way that understanding the concept of atoms does not require knowing quantum field theory. God can teach us simpler versions of the truth, and use the more complex ones as we learn more, but He hasn't done that. If He had, then the more complex teachings would reduce to the simpler ones under simplified reasoning. Actually, scratch that: for the majority of His teachings, God has provided no reasoning whatsoever.

Remember he has also given us free will and choice Deut.30v19. :yes:

Does God know everything?

 

[Beta]

God has infinite knowledge. He can convince anyone of anything, given enough time. Disobedience doesn't come into it.
Actually, I would if the baby had spent 20 years learning about it...
And understanding the reasons why God does things does not require knowing everything, in the same way that understanding the concept of atoms does not require knowing quantum field theory. God can teach us simpler versions of the truth, and use the more complex ones as we learn more, but He hasn't done that. If He had, then the more complex teachings would reduce to the simpler ones under simplified reasoning. Actually, scratch that: for the majority of His teachings, God has provided no reasoning whatsoever.
Does God know everything?

Seems you have already proved that you are not willing to obey even though that is God's priority in the OT and the NT, in fact you totally reject it (Heb.5v8,9.) Yet you want HIS knowledge on YOUR terms. That is not how God works. We learn HIS WAY or not at all !!!
There is of course a good reason behind that method one you are not prepared to learn from scratch.
Whatever God does for us is for our good and that is all we need to know to begin with. Any more information and we no longer trust in HIM but begin to rely on intellect only and soon that would lead us astray. This has already proved to be the case in our present world - now wholly deceived Rev.12v9. :cover:

 

[Masourga]

I first thought the thread was simply asking why the Bible would be written in arguably convoluted parable and symbology when its points are intendedly so important that no one on Earth should be spared their meaning and adherence to its doctrine. Which I thought would have been an excellent point to make - why put out of reach (or at least at the point at which contention is to be had over its meaning) what you want EVERYONE to have access to, understand, and be able to pass on? Seems counter-intuitive - but I suppose in the entertainment-driven context of today its somewhat understandable that the human mind probably wouldn't take interest in a religious text that was basically a manual of how to live your life. In other words - if the Bible were written to read like stereo instructions, no one would have even picked it up.

At any rate, the actual point of the thread is also interesting, in that, it points out the existence of said failures to adhere to what is given the moniker of a "perfect" word and text. If it is perfect, then why are you allowed to ignore the parts you don't like, or change them when they don't conform to certain ways you want to live your life? I would say that, obviously, something like the Christmas tree decorating we take part in at Christmas time is certainly not hurting anyone, and therefore any rules governing that practice are basic frivolity and can likely be ignored without consequence. But then that also presents a problem in that it means the Bible isn't perfect, because it falls down on that point... regardless how small the point is, "perfect" has a very specific meaning - that being "without flaw".

 

[opuntia]

When words were put to papyrus or some other writing material, those who did so were usually prophets or men who were experienced in meeting either God or His messengers the angels or seeing objects of a miraculous nature. So their writings were essentially for those who were either members of their faith or religion who were at least familiar with or conversant with the matters which were written about--no neophytes or newbies there. But today that is what we have--neophytes or newbies trying to make sense of words written by prophets who were communicating with other like-minded prophets or religious men and women. Cf. Hebrews 5:12-14(1-14); Isaiah 28:9-10; 2 Peter 3:15-17.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Probably because Christians don't like it when the Bible says to stone victims of rape.

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." Deuteronomy 22:23,24


.

That's the Old Covenant (which is legalistic & brutal). Christians are under the New Covenant.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When words were put to papyrus or some other writing material, those who did so were usually prophets or men who were experienced in meeting either God or His messengers the angels or seeing objects of a miraculous nature. So their writings were essentially for those who were either members of their faith or religion who were at least familiar with or conversant with the matters which were written about--no neophytes or newbies there. But today that is what we have--neophytes or newbies trying to make sense of words written by prophets who were communicating with other like-minded prophets or religious men and women. Cf. Hebrews 5:12-14(1-14); Isaiah 28:9-10; 2 Peter 3:15-17.

That simply means there is a closed exclusive circle to which the dogma expressed is strictly inaccessible for interpretation by others by way of exclusivity. Essentially creating an elitist group. (In all fairness, this is not limited to Christianity only)

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's the Old Covenant (which is legalistic & brutal). Christians are under the New Covenant.

How is Matthew 5:18 explained then?