Why doesn't the Bible say what it means?

[Midnight Pete]

How is Matthew 5:18 explained then?

What does Matthew 5:18 have to do with this?

 

[Twilight Hue]

What does Matthew 5:18 have to do with this?

According to how this chapter is written, Isn't Jesus saying there in the verse that the old law still remains valid?

I heard some say it applies till heaven and earth passes away, and others have maintained it is only until the crucifixion, of which the new covenant took effect by the rendering, thus nullifying the old law contrary to this passage.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

this is what we call "distortion".

 

[McBell]

And why should God not change his mind and try us with different methods of teaching ?

Um..
If god already knows everything then would he not know the method that will work?
And he if does know the method that will work and fails to put said method into play, then god is merely setting man up to fail.
And any deity ythat is that sadistic a tyrant is not worthy of worship.

You forget he is doing this FOR OUR BENEFIT.

Stockholm Syndrome perhaps?

He already knows what is the best way but obviously man does not seem to grasp that fact even after living the ways that DON'T work.

So this god of yours is merely toying with us?
LIke a cat with a mouse?

Very soon now God will speak to man in no uncertain terms and we WILL KNOW what He is saying !

:sleep:
We been hearing this song and dance for the last 1500 plus years.
One wonders what theists mean by soon...

 

[waitasec]

we become obedient by our own free will and choice we can not really be helped.

now that doesn't make sense, unless your comfortable with the idea of being told what to do and rely on a scapegoat to make amends for failing to do so.

tell me, before the 10 commandments, were the jews killing and stealing and coveting their neighbors wives to the point where god had to say something about it? no. everyone knows these things are wrong. so then why did god fail to include; slavery, rape (of women and children), genocide and used 4 out of the 10 about how we are to worship him?

To know and understand or grasp the reason behind what God does would require us knowing as much as God does !!! This can only happen if we learn from Him.

the euthyphro dilemma...

there is no offer. it is not of our choosing. believe or spend an eternity in suffering... would you call that a choice or a threat?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

The Bible has "milk" for the "babes" and "meat" for the adults. Too many babes try to eat meat and puke it back up.

 

[Jenny1976]

Because God wants us to use our minds

 

[waitasec]

The Bible has "milk" for the "babes" and "meat" for the adults. Too many babes try to eat meat and puke it back up.

do you realize how haughty and self defeating that statement was...

if you really believe in treating others as you would like to be treated, don't be surprised when your approached with disdain when making these accusations.

 

[Astravalon]

Personally, I think Scripture is set up the way it is by design, leaving plenty of room for the diversity of interpretation that it clearly has.

It's been said that how we see (interpret) anything says more about us than it does about that which we see. Maybe it’s the same with Scripture – we are reading ourselves into it.

Therefore, when someone elaborates on any point of Scripture, I don’t see them telling me about Scripture as much as I see them telling me about themselves. Misogynists will find support in Scripture for treating women like doormats while others will find support for treating them like goddesses; folks who are sick of being married will find support in Scripture for viewing marriage as practically water-soluble while others will find Scripture saying that ending a marriage is virtually the Unforgivable Sin; those who cannot stand the idea of same-sex relationships are going to interpret Scripture in such a way as to condemn them, while those who can completely understand the idea of same-sex relationships will interpret Scripture to support them. Those who want to see their enemies get what's coming to them will see justification for their vindictiveness within the passages of the Old Testament about dealing with one's enemies, while conveniently ignoring what the New Testament has to say about such things. Those who find virtue in wealth or poverty will find support in Scripture for their respective views on those subjects.

I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out, in the End, that God was using what we now know as The Bible as a mirror of sorts, to show us who/what/where each of us are – as individuals. After all, mankind has been, pretty much, creating God in his own image since day one, and I’m beginning to think that God knew this would be the case and is using that human tendency to teach us a thing or two about ourselves when it comes to what we choose to read into any passage of Scripture. As Karl Barth said, “ I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”


.

 

[waitasec]

Personally, I think Scripture is set up the way it is by design, leaving plenty of room for the diversity of interpretation that it clearly has.

It's been said that how we see (interpret) anything says more about us than it does about that which we see. Maybe it’s the same with Scripture – we are reading ourselves into it.

Therefore, when someone elaborates on any point of Scripture, I don’t see them telling me about Scripture as much as I see them telling me about themselves. Misogynists will find support in Scripture for treating women like doormats while others will find support for treating them like goddesses; folks who are sick of being married will find support in Scripture for viewing marriage as practically water-soluble while others will find Scripture saying that ending a marriage is virtually the Unforgivable Sin; those who cannot stand the idea of same-sex relationships are going to interpret Scripture in such a way as to condemn them, while those who can completely understand the idea of same-sex relationships will interpret Scripture to support them. Those who want to see their enemies get what's coming to them will see justification for their vindictiveness within the passages of the Old Testament about dealing with one's enemies, while conveniently ignoring what the New Testament has to say about such things. Those who find virtue in wealth or poverty will find support in Scripture for their respective views on those subjects.

I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out, in the End, that God was using what we now know as The Bible as a mirror of sorts, to show us who/what/where each of us are – as individuals. After all, mankind has been, pretty much, creating God in his own image since day one, and I’m beginning to think that God knew this would be the case and is using that human tendency to teach us a thing or two about ourselves when it comes to what we choose to read into any passage of Scripture. As Karl Barth said, “ I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”


.

if absolute truth is the standard and it really doesn't concern itself with hurting someone's feelings, then the bible cannot be applied for the reasons you stated.

btw,
welcome to the forum

 

[Astravalon]

if absolute truth is the standard and it really doesn't concern itself with hurting someone's feelings, then the bible cannot be applied for the reasons you stated.

btw,
welcome to the forum

Thanks for the welcome!

I agree; in fact, I hadn't really taken into consideration Reality's concern for people's feelings when coming to my aforementioned speculations. Absolute truth probably isn't so much about preserving feelings as it is simply bringing people to a deeper understanding of themselves; besides, feelings change anyway, influenced by the changes in one's thinking, which is, in turn, influenced by one's understanding (if that makes sense, lol!).


.

 

[waitasec]

Thanks for the welcome!

I agree; in fact, I hadn't really taken into consideration Reality's concern for people's feelings when coming to my aforementioned speculations. Absolute truth probably isn't so much about preserving feelings as it is simply bringing people to a deeper understanding of themselves; besides, feelings change anyway, influenced by the changes in one's thinking, which is, in turn, influenced by one's understanding (if that makes sense, lol!).


.

yes it does... especially when one is open minded. funny how that works

 

[Duck]

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

I am quite sure it said what it meant. In Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek (as I recall three of the primary languages that the original texts were written in) but the words of Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek do not have exact translations into Latin, nor into English. The translations of words between one language and another is always somewhat problematic as the concepts behind the words (definitions if you will) may not be the same. Just try an online translation program (granted not the best of examples, but will illustrate the point) put a word in and translate it from English to, say, Norwegian, then change your translation direction, type in the Norwegian result, chances are you might not get the same word out that you originally entered, particularly for more ambiguous English words (the ones with several possible definitions). Similarly, words and definitions have changed or shifted within English since the translations first commanded by James I.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

do you realize how haughty and self defeating that statement was...

if you really believe in treating others as you would like to be treated, don't be surprised when your approached with disdain when making these accusations.

Your ignorance of Scripture is evident. Biblical meat/milk verses

 

[horiturk]

the bible is constructed in such an ambigous way that anyone can draw anything from it,their own interpretation.

 

[waitasec]

Your ignorance of Scripture is evident. Biblical meat/milk verses

are you unaware of the concept of context...

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

The Bible has "milk" for the "babes" and "meat" for the adults. Too many babes try to eat meat and puke it back up.

do you realize how haughty and self defeating that statement was...

if you really believe in treating others as you would like to be treated, don't be surprised when your approached with disdain when making these accusations.

look sandy, if you want to hide and cower behind the bible by using your double talk to justify your hostile remarks....all i have to say to that is
that's just swell.

 

[Willamena]

It does say precisely what it poetically, allegorically, mythologically, and historically means.

 

[Thief]

Personally, I think Scripture is set up the way it is by design, leaving plenty of room for the diversity of interpretation that it clearly has.

It's been said that how we see (interpret) anything says more about us than it does about that which we see. Maybe it’s the same with Scripture – we are reading ourselves into it.

Therefore, when someone elaborates on any point of Scripture, I don’t see them telling me about Scripture as much as I see them telling me about themselves (you could have stopped here)Misogynists will find support in Scripture for treating women like doormats while others will find support for treating them like goddesses; folks who are sick of being married will find support in Scripture for viewing marriage as practically water-soluble while others will find Scripture saying that ending a marriage is virtually the Unforgivable Sin; those who cannot stand the idea of same-sex relationships are going to interpret Scripture in such a way as to condemn them, while those who can completely understand the idea of same-sex relationships will interpret Scripture to support them. Those who want to see their enemies get what's coming to them will see justification for their vindictiveness within the passages of the Old Testament about dealing with one's enemies, while conveniently ignoring what the New Testament has to say about such things. Those who find virtue in wealth or poverty will find support in Scripture for their respective views on those subjects.

I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out, in the End, that God was using what we now know as The Bible as a mirror of sorts, to show us who/what/where each of us are – as individuals. After all, mankind has been, pretty much, creating God in his own image since day one, and I’m beginning to think that God knew this would be the case and is using that human tendency to teach us a thing or two about ourselves when it comes to what we choose to read into any passage of Scripture. As Karl Barth said, “ I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Etritonakin]

It seems like everyone has to interpret the Bible to meet his or her own ideas. Why not just believe what it says? Some examples. In Matthew chapter 12 Jesus says the only sign that He really is the son of God will be that He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Everyone has some excuse why He was only there 72 hours. It was a Greek idiom. It meant any part of 3 days and nights. Etc. Why not just believe what it says and stop making excuses. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep the commandments. He goes on to show that He is talking about the 10 commandments. Do not kill. Do not steal, etc. But people have to make up reasons why the commandments do not apply to people today. They were only for the Jews. Jesus "nailed them to the cross." If Jesus said to obey them why not believe Him instead of making excuses why you don't have to. In Jeremiah chapter 10 people are warned not to follow heathen ways. Then it says that heathens cut a tree from the forest and decorate it with silver and gold. But of course that does not mean we should not have "Christmas trees" even though it sounds like that is exactly what it is saying. So on these and many other points why is it so difficult to believe what the Bible says instead of making excuses why it does not mean what it says. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible at all that is one thing but if you claim to believe in it why do have to say it does not mean what it says?

Yes -it does mean we should not have Christmas trees. That and the yule log are customs which far predate Christ -have nothing to do with Christ -and became mixed with "Christian" beliefs. We should not even keep Christmas, but keep the holy days and sabbath given by God and kept by Christ and the new testament church -even gentiles. What would Jesus do? What DID Jesus do?

We should not keep Easter, either -some bibles have the word Easter in them -but it is translated incorrectly from the word for passover. Easter is another spelling of Astarte/Ashtaroth/Ishtar -chief goddess of the Babylonian mystery religion -as in MYSTERY: BABYLON THE GREAT

We should also keep the sabbath -it's a commandment for a reason.
The change from the sabbath to sunday...

THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA 364 A.D.
CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.​

...is one reason why many are confused about how long Christ was in the grave.
He did not rise on Sunday morning. This belief came about due to mixing of Christian beliefs and pagan rituals while those who kept the sabbath and holy days of God were being fiercely persecuted. Everyone on earth will keep them soon -might as well start now!

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[sandandfoam]

It does say precisely what it poetically, allegorically, mythologically, and historically means.

Spot on.