Why doesn't the Bible say what it means?

[McBell]

I was answering the thread's question.

ah.
ok.

I wonder if the follow up question for the thread title will be:

Why is the Bible not clear in what it says?​

 

[McBell]

Atheists and agnostics don't usually believe in the Bible so why would they even try to interpret it.

ROFLMAO

Seeing as there are over 30,000 different versions/groups/denominations of Christianity all claiming to have the one and only truly correct interpretation of the Bible......

 

[strikeviperMKII]

ah.
ok.

I wonder if the follow up question for the thread title will be:

Why is the Bible not clear in what it says?​

If it was something you could readily understand it wouldn't change anything.

 

[McBell]

If it was something you could readily understand it wouldn't change anything.

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

 

[Astravalon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iridescence Personally, I think Scripture is set up the way it is by design, leaving plenty of room for the diversity of interpretation that it clearly has.

It's been said that how we see (interpret) anything says more about us than it does about that which we see. Maybe it’s the same with Scripture – we are reading ourselves into it.

Therefore, when someone elaborates on any point of Scripture, I don’t see them telling me about Scripture as much as I see them telling me about themselves (you could have stopped here)Misogynists will find support in Scripture for treating women like doormats while others will find support for treating them like goddesses; folks who are sick of being married will find support in Scripture for viewing marriage as practically water-soluble while others will find Scripture saying that ending a marriage is virtually the Unforgivable Sin; those who cannot stand the idea of same-sex relationships are going to interpret Scripture in such a way as to condemn them, while those who can completely understand the idea of same-sex relationships will interpret Scripture to support them. Those who want to see their enemies get what's coming to them will see justification for their vindictiveness within the passages of the Old Testament about dealing with one's enemies, while conveniently ignoring what the New Testament has to say about such things. Those who find virtue in wealth or poverty will find support in Scripture for their respective views on those subjects.

I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out, in the End, that God was using what we now know as The Bible as a mirror of sorts, to show us who/what/where each of us are – as individuals. After all, mankind has been, pretty much, creating God in his own image since day one, and I’m beginning to think that God knew this would be the case and is using that human tendency to teach us a thing or two about ourselves when it comes to what we choose to read into any passage of Scripture. As Karl Barth said, “ I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”
​

Welcome to the Forum.

Yes, I could have stopped there, but I stopped further down.

And thanks for the "welcome".



.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Personally, I think Scripture is set up the way it is by design, leaving plenty of room for the diversity of interpretation that it clearly has.

It's been said that how we see (interpret) anything says more about us than it does about that which we see. Maybe it’s the same with Scripture – we are reading ourselves into it.

Therefore, when someone elaborates on any point of Scripture, I don’t see them telling me about Scripture as much as I see them telling me about themselves. Misogynists will find support in Scripture for treating women like doormats while others will find support for treating them like goddesses; folks who are sick of being married will find support in Scripture for viewing marriage as practically water-soluble while others will find Scripture saying that ending a marriage is virtually the Unforgivable Sin; those who cannot stand the idea of same-sex relationships are going to interpret Scripture in such a way as to condemn them, while those who can completely understand the idea of same-sex relationships will interpret Scripture to support them. Those who want to see their enemies get what's coming to them will see justification for their vindictiveness within the passages of the Old Testament about dealing with one's enemies, while conveniently ignoring what the New Testament has to say about such things. Those who find virtue in wealth or poverty will find support in Scripture for their respective views on those subjects.

I would not be in the least bit surprised to find out, in the End, that God was using what we now know as The Bible as a mirror of sorts, to show us who/what/where each of us are – as individuals. After all, mankind has been, pretty much, creating God in his own image since day one, and I’m beginning to think that God knew this would be the case and is using that human tendency to teach us a thing or two about ourselves when it comes to what we choose to read into any passage of Scripture. As Karl Barth said, “ I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”


.

Yes, I could have stopped there, but I stopped further down.

And thanks for the "welcome".



.

Glad to see that you continued on here. Although I don't take the Bible as being written with this in mind at the time of composition, you do nevertheless make a very well thought out response in that the Bible could be considered as a "mirror" of sorts of which reflects back towards the person. I find it as an interesting insight of which I hadn't considered before.

Perhaps not the intent of the authors collectively methinks, but in that there is a validity to what you say that when you open the Bible (or any other religious text) you open a mirror reflecting yourself right back. Christianity, if ever taught in that way and manner, would have been a much better, happier, and stronger religion for it.

Kudos

 

[Penumbra]

The books of the Bible are kind of like the tv show Star Trek.

Both of them are interesting to a certain extent. Star Trek's an original, interesting tv show and franchise, and the books of the Bible give a lot of insight into ancient cultures, providing narratives, letters, poetry, etc.

But, for both things, people take them too far. They get way too into them. I've seen people debate details of technology or plot nuances in Star Trek to the point where anybody who was listening just went . And people debate the books of the Bible as though these rather barbaric, ancient men have woven together some tale from god full of cohesive meaning.

These things seem important to people that become utterly absorbed into them, but when looked at from the outside, they are just what they are, a tv show and a collection of ancient writings. They can be appreciated for what they are, either disliked or liked, but only for what they are.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.” (Isaiah 29:11).

 

[Thief]

The books of the Bible are kind of like the tv show Star Trek.

Both of them are interesting to a certain extent. Star Trek's an original, interesting tv show and franchise, and the books of the Bible give a lot of insight into ancient cultures, providing narratives, letters, poetry, etc.

But, for both things, people take them too far. They get way too into them. I've seen people debate details of technology or plot nuances in Star Trek to the point where anybody who was listening just went . And people debate the books of the Bible as though these rather barbaric, ancient men have woven together some tale from god full of cohesive meaning.

These things seem important to people that become utterly absorbed into them, but when looked at from the outside, they are just what they are, a tv show and a collection of ancient writings. They can be appreciated for what they are, either disliked or liked, but only for what they are.

Someone said Star Trek!!!!!!
Here comes another thread!

Look for it in your favorite Forum.

general religious debates

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mat. 13:12

4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mark 4:13

8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 8:11 Luke

2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God
ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Cor 2:8

14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.1 Cor 14:3

"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.” (Isaiah 29:11).

 

[waitasec]

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mat. 13:12

4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mark 4:13

8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 8:11 Luke

2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God
ordained before the world unto our glory: 1 Cor 2:8

14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.1 Cor 14:3

"And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.” (Isaiah 29:11).

but of course, anything that is irreconcilable is reckoned to be mysterious

 

[sandy whitelinger]

huh?

I do not understand the question as worded.

"...As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." II Peter 3:16

 

[InvestigateTruth]

but of course, anything that is irreconcilable is reckoned to be mysterious

Yes, good point, anything that is irreconcilable is reckoned to be mysterious.
But also, anything that was mystery, may seem to be irreconcilable.

 

[waitasec]

"...As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." II Peter 3:16

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

uh, can you still repent after you're dead?


oh yeah, got milk?

 

[waitasec]

Yes, good point, anything that is irreconcilable is reckoned to be mysterious.
But also, anything that was mystery, may seem to be irreconcilable.

i just don't understand why the need for mystery?
thou shall not....
but yet things like genocide, rape, slavery were ok?
why not include those obvious atrocities?
murder and stealing were in a grey area just as long it wasn't your neighbor you were killing because you coveted your neighbors wife and other property...

 

[Etritonakin]

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

uh, can you still repent after you're dead?


oh yeah, got milk?

No -need to go to the store soon.

Yes -some will repent after the "first" death -though not while dead, as they will die, then be resurrected, etc....

Was taking a break from posting, but just had to respond to that one.

Now, about that moo-juice.

 

[waitasec]

No -need to go to the store soon.

Yes -some will repent after the "first" death -though not while dead, as they will die, then be resurrected, etc....

wouldn't you think everyone would after the 1st death
so what's the point?

 

[idea]

(Bible Dictionary | P Parables:Entry)
Parables. (1) Most teachers, especially Oriental teachers, have used some form of parable in their instruction, but none so exclusively as Jesus at one period of his ministry. During part of the Galilean ministry the record states that "without a parable spake he not unto them" (Mark 4:34). From our Lord's words (Matt. 13:13–15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10) we learn the reason for this method. It was to veil the meaning. The parable conveys to the hearer religious truth exactly in proportion to his faith and intelligence; to the dull and uninspired it is a mere story, "seeing they see not," while to the instructed and spiritual it reveals the mysteries or secrets of the kingdom of heaven. Thus it is that the parable exhibits the condition of all true knowledge. Only he who seeks finds.

 

[waitasec]

here's a thought
maybe jesus spoke in parables because if he said what he meant, he would be killed...by the romans

 

[Thief]

here's a thought
maybe jesus spoke in parables because if he said what he meant, he would be killed...by the romans

So close...but no cigar.

The Romans didn't care about what the people believed...religiously.
I've even heard of the Romans assisting in the build of temples.
A sort of 'public relations' effort.

The Carpenter taught as He did to avoid outright scripture debates..as we do here.

It would not have done anyone any good.

Haven't you noticed how things go on here at the Forum?