Why doesn't the Bible say what it means?

[waitasec]

I am not sure what you mean though?



This is from the story of Adam and Eve. Which I believe is a symbolic story and not to be taken literally.

In Baha'i Faith, Men and Women are equal and this has been said in many verses clearly:

"When all mankind shall receive the same opportunity of education and the equality of men and women be realized, the foundations of war will be utterly destroyed." Abdu'l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace

"The world of humanity is possessed of two wings: the male and the female. So long as these two wings are not equivalent in strength, the bird will not fly. Until womankind reaches the same degree as man, until she enjoys the same arena of activity, extraordinary attainment for humanity will not be realized; humanity cannot wing its way to heights of real attainment. When the two wings . . . become equivalent in strength, enjoying the same prerogatives, the flight of man will be exceedingly lofty and extraordinary." 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation


Thanks for the info.
These are from old times, and doesn't make sense in our age at all.



There are other things to think about and consider for judging fairly.

even science has been the 'mean and tool' for destruction and killing. When science throughout history has been used to build bombs and weapons, and used for killing millions and millions of people. But that doesn't mean we should consider science the root of killings. it was people who didn't have spiritual training, and made science the mean of killing.
So, if anything is abused by people can have a negative effect. If it used for the right purpose, it would have a possitive effect.
Religion is the same. Many people killed others in the name of God and religions. They just abused the religion of God. But in the history there were many who were enlightened by the spirtual teachings and have been the cause of progress and comfort for others.

Also, it would be very unlikely, that God, never interacted with His creatures. It is very strange, after he created, He never send any guidance to human.
It's also very unlikely that every single person who claimed to be a prophet, was either a liar or crazy. So, I think, it requires careful investigation.

for the record i don't know anything about the baha'i faith. is it derived from the abrahamic religion?
my problem is the belief of an all knowing all powerful god that needs me to believe in it in order for me to live in a blissful after life.
come to think of it, it's actually an insulting dogmatic concept.

 

[waitasec]

You do seem threatened by God.
You have mentioned the word 'threat' on more than one occasion.

Perhaps you are confusing that word with 'consequence'?

Hell is more like....
waking up in that place....with people like yourself....
and there is no one to protect you.
No God.

hell is not a consequence because it is not a logical conclusion resulting from reason
hell is more like an ultimatum because the end result is a retaliation for the rejection of something so
insignificantly and so unimportant for an all knowing all powerful being would require; faith in it.
when i say threat, i mean it is the threat of man threatening man to conform to this ideal of mediocrity.

 

[Thief]

hell is not a consequence because it is not a logical conclusion resulting from reason
hell is more like an ultimatum because the end result is a retaliation for the rejection of something so
insignificantly and so unimportant for an all knowing all powerful being would require; faith in it.
when i say threat, i mean it is the threat of man threatening man to conform to this ideal of mediocrity.

You didn't read my post.
You're just saying what you want to.

Hell is the absence of God.
A lot of people end up there.

It is a matter of choice....His first.
Why choose out of mediocrity when the very best is at hand?

Why choose someone who is resistant and in denial?

Why choose someone who can't reconcile?

But we have choices to make...before that happens.
To the right...to the left.
And not all roads lead to hell.

 

[sniper762]

take note that when the bible was written there was not that many nations. the western hemisphere wasnt even known to exist.

 

[truseeker]

To get back to the main idea of people trying to say the Bible does not mean what it says. If a travel agent tells you you can get a 3 day and 3 night vacation for a very low price and then after you pay he tells you that you leave on Friday evening and get back on Sunday morning, you would not be very happy. You would feel cheated because that is not 3 days and 3 nights. But when Jesus says He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, everyone says He did not really mean that or that was how they counted days back then or some other excuse. Why not just believe that Jesus meant what He said.

 

[PolyHedral]

Because then He'd be wrong, which isn't acceptable.

 

[Beta]

To get back to the main idea of people trying to say the Bible does not mean what it says. If a travel agent tells you you can get a 3 day and 3 night vacation for a very low price and then after you pay he tells you that you leave on Friday evening and get back on Sunday morning, you would not be very happy. You would feel cheated because that is not 3 days and 3 nights. But when Jesus says He will be 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, everyone says He did not really mean that or that was how they counted days back then or some other excuse. Why not just believe that Jesus meant what He said.

That is a very good example friend !

 

[waitasec]

You didn't read my post.
You're just saying what you want to.

Hell is the absence of God.
A lot of people end up there.

It is a matter of choice....His first.
Why choose out of mediocrity when the very best is at hand?

Why choose someone who is resistant and in denial?

Why choose someone who can't reconcile?

But we have choices to make...before that happens.
To the right...to the left.
And not all roads lead to hell.

yes i did read your post. you have explained your idea and you believe it should be apparent to all that reads it, but you fail to understand this is exactly what i mean by subjective truth, no one can empirically prove this notion to anyone else. only you can prove this to yourself. thats the thing about faith i think is so interesting, we need some sort of evidence (rational or irrational) for us to believe in it, so what is it's purpose?
so, what would you like me to do, say what i don't mean? then i would be a liar.

from my perspective it is not a choice. an all knowing all powerful god doesn't need me to believe in it. unless of course this god you believe in is a tyrannical being and i cannot reconcile that horrific notion with any logical discourse. obviously you can
the choices that matter are the one that reflect our integrity...
i can only see what i can reason with.

as a mere mortal the love i have for my child is unconditional compared to the conditional love god has for it's creation, never would i use use my love as tool to manipulate a certain outcome. i will always be there for my child, no matter what.

 

[waitasec]

take note that when the bible was written there was not that many nations. the western hemisphere wasnt even known to exist.

so god wasn't aware that this would happen in the future?
i thought he was all knowing? hmmmm

 

[sniper762]

god was aware but were the biblical writers?

 

[waitasec]

god was aware but were the biblical writers?

are you saying the bible writers were not listening the holy spirit?

 

[Thief]

yes i did read your post. you have explained your idea and you believe it should be apparent to all that reads it, but you fail to understand this is exactly what i mean by subjective truth, no one can empirically prove this notion to anyone else. only you can prove this to yourself. thats the thing about faith i think is so interesting, we need some sort of evidence (rational or irrational) for us to believe in it, so what is it's purpose?
so, what would you like me to do, say what i don't mean? then i would be a liar.

from my perspective it is not a choice. an all knowing all powerful god doesn't need me to believe in it. unless of course this god you believe in is a tyrannical being and i cannot reconcile that horrific notion with any logical discourse. obviously you can
the choices that matter are the one that reflect our integrity...
i can only see what i can reason with.

as a mere mortal the love i have for my child is unconditional compared to the conditional love god has for it's creation, never would i use use my love as tool to manipulate a certain outcome. i will always be there for my child, no matter what.

Well..I might send you to the scriptures....
but under this topic title....that won't work.
Under this title the scriptures themselves are in doubt.

Under this title you might ask...why believe? when the scriptures are so....
ambiguous.

I highlighted the item that appears backwards.
Do you mean to say...seeing is believing?

At this point it's like watching you stand on the track of a high speed train.
You don't believe there is a train on the track...you don't see one.
I tell you...when you do see it...it will be too late to jump out of the way.

As for the love of a child...

I would like to let my children come and go as they please....freewill and all.

But if they play on the train track...and they are stubborn about it....

 

[sniper762]

that would seem to be the point. i dont think it was that they didn't listen, its just that their primitive minds couldnt comprehend it.

if god told john that the events of revelation would be ushered in by someone flying from the sky, do you think that john would have conveyed that message as jets or horses?

 

[waitasec]

Do you mean to say...seeing is believing?

At this point it's like watching you stand on the track of a high speed train.
You don't believe there is a train on the track...you don't see one.
I tell you...when you do see it...it will be too late to jump out of the way.

As for the love of a child...

I would like to let my children come and go as they please....freewill and all.

But if they play on the train track...and they are stubborn about it....

seeing is reasoning, "ah yes now i see"

this analogy doesn't make sense to me. if i were a loving all knowing all powerful god and i knew trains can kill my child when playing on the tracks (i'm assuming tracks is metaphor for life) they wouldn't exist in the first place. see what i mean? there will be no life, simply for the fact that they can be separated from me and that is the furthest thing from my heart. that is why this ultimatum is nonsense to me. i did not have a child to be separated from, this child is a part of me. and even though they are a part of me they have their own will. tell me this, if your child did everything you wanted him/her to do, wouldn't you find that worrisome? i'm guessing you have children, you can understand that? don't you want to nurture their individuality...?

 

[Thief]

seeing is reasoning, "ah yes now i see"

this analogy doesn't make sense to me. if i were a loving all knowing all powerful god and i knew trains can kill my child when playing on the tracks (i'm assuming tracks is metaphor for life) they wouldn't exist in the first place. see what i mean? there will be no life, simply for the fact that they can be separated from me and that is the furthest thing from my heart. that is why this ultimatum is nonsense to me. i did not have a child to be separated from, this child is a part of me. and even though they are a part of me they have their own will. tell me this, if your child did everything you wanted him/her to do, wouldn't you find that worrisome? i'm guessing you have children, you can understand that? don't you want to nurture their individuality...?

Yes I have children....and they have lives of their own nowadays.
And as you know, I recently lost my father.

Separation...I know.

Mortal life was created to spawn individuals.
For that to 'gel'...God is willing to stand back and....allow.
That's not to say he doesn't care.

My own son has joined the armed services during a time of war....
against my objection.....most serious and heated objection.

But I love him none the less.
And I might lose him all together...here in this life.
But I will find him again in the next life.
As will I find anyone else I care for.

Life is a learning experience.
You are here to learn all that you can before you die.
If what you learn takes you back to God...fine and good.
If not....

 

[waitasec]

Yes I have children....and they have lives of their own nowadays.
And as you know, I recently lost my father.

Separation...I know.

Mortal life was created to spawn individuals.
For that to 'gel'...God is willing to stand back and....allow.
That's not to say he doesn't care.

My own son has joined the armed services during a time of war....
against my objection.....most serious and heated objection.

But I love him none the less.
And I might lose him all together...here in this life.
But I will find him again in the next life.
As will I find anyone else I care for.

Life is a learning experience.
You are here to learn all that you can before you die.
If what you learn takes you back to God...fine and good.
If not....

yes you love your son and nothing your son does can sever your love for him.
if god is the source of life, god doesn't care about the mundane
life is cold and unbiased not really concerned about anyones feelings.
because life goes on.
our experience only means something if we give it value.

If not....

i cannot base my life on an "if"
my integrity tells me i have to commit. as you commit to your belief

 

[InvestigateTruth]

for the record i don't know anything about the baha'i faith. is it derived from the abrahamic religion?

Baha'i Faith scriptures confirm the Abrahamic religions and other major religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Zoroastrianism.

my problem is the belief of an all knowing all powerful god that needs me to believe in it in order for me to live in a blissful after life.
come to think of it, it's actually an insulting dogmatic concept.

I don't believe that God needs us to believe in Him, neither it harms or benefits Him as Baha'i scriptures says:



"O ye peoples of the world! Know assuredly that My commandments are the lamps of My loving providence among My servants, and the keys of My mercy for My creatures."

“Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me.” Baha'u'llah


The Baha'i scriptures explains that the concept of hell and heaven which has been mentioned in older scriptures, are not physical places. Life after death is the life of spirit, and is impossible to understand it while we are here, and therefore it is described with parables. It has been described in a warning language in older scriptures to guide people with a fear of God. But for this age, people became more mature, and they are guided by Love of God, not with fear of hell, or hope for heaven:


"Observe My commandments, for the love of My beauty. Happy is the lover that hath inhaled the divine fragrance of his Best Beloved from these words, laden with the perfume of a grace which no tongue can describe" The Most Holy Book.

Heaven can be seen partly as a state of nearness to God; hell is a state of remoteness from God. Each state follows as a natural consequence of individual efforts, or the lack thereof, to develop spiritually. The key to spiritual progress is to follow the path outlined by the Manifestations of God.
Beyond this, the exact nature of the afterlife remains a mystery. "The nature of the soul after death can never be described," Bahá'u'lláh writes.

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-5-2.html

 

[InvestigateTruth]

my question boils down to this...
why doesn't the bible emphatically state we all (all nations) are equal that no one is to dominate another, but instead is more concerned with how one worships god, an omniscient all powerful being?

The reason that Bible and any other scriptures emphasize in worshiping God, is not because God needs to be worshipped or anything in this nature.

It is because, worshipping gods, instead of one God essentially is the root of every single problem, and injustice that have ever existed in the human history.
but this needs a deeper understanding, what is meant by worshiping God alone.

When we study the Books that are revealed through the prophets, we see that what they meant by worshipping gods, is essentially either worshipping "the religious leaders or leaders in every age", "the human passion for power, materialistic wealth", "selfishness", "superstitious and vain imagination", etc.

I am more familiar with Abraham religions Texts, and I can just provide literally innumerous number of verses from all the Scriptures of religions to show this fact.

 

[waitasec]

The reason that Bible and any other scriptures emphasize in worshiping God, is not because God needs to be worshipped or anything in this nature.

4 out of the 10 commandments are about how to worship god...

It is because, worshipping gods, instead of one God essentially is the root of every single problem, and injustice that have ever existed in the human history.

are you unaware of the situation in the middle east? muslims, christians and jews worship the same god they seem to be at peace with one another

but this needs a deeper understanding, what is meant by worshiping God alone.

When we study the Books that are revealed through the prophets, we see that what they meant by worshipping gods, is essentially either worshipping "the religious leaders or leaders in every age", "the human passion for power, materialistic wealth", "selfishness", "superstitious and vain imagination", etc.

I am more familiar with Abraham religions Texts, and I can just provide literally innumerous number of verses from all the Scriptures of religions to show this fact.

people have their own interpretations of god. and they are going to stand by their bias and not budge. the prophets were merely exalted humans who's faith was subjected to their bias. nothing different with jim jones...

 

[InvestigateTruth]

are you unaware of the situation in the middle east? muslims, christians and jews worship the same god they seem to be at peace with one another

They are not worshipping the same God! They are obeying what their religious leaders tells them, rather than obeying the same God.

Why?
For example, if Jews believed that Christianity is truely from the same God of Moses, then they would accept it. and If Christians believed that Islam is from the same God of Jesus, they would also accept Islam, and If Muslims believed that the Baha'i faith is from the same God, then they would also accept it.
Thus, the followers of every religion has accepted the previous religions, but not the ones after them.
Therefore they have not obeyed the same God.