Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?

[icehorse]

- if Hamas were to surrender, the IDF's killings wouldn't stop and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza would continue.

That's an extraordinary claim, where's your good evidence?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes.

However, as other posters have rightly pointed out, Hamas don't care about the lives of Gazan civilians, much less the lives of hostages in their care, so to dangle the carrot of "once Hamas do the right thing, Israel will stop doing war crimes" is essentially just acknowledging that Israel is very keen for the entire population of Gaza to die.

The assertion that Israel, the entire nation, is "very keen for the entire population of Gaza to die" is outrageous rubbish, and no less disgustingly bigoted than an assertion that the October 7th pogrom is evidence that the Palestinians are very keen for the entire Jewish population of the area to die.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The assertion that Israel, the entire nation, is "very keen for the entire population of Gaza to die" is outrageous rubbish, and no less disgustingly bigoted than an assertion that the October 7th pogrom is evidence that the Palestinians are very keen for the entire Jewish population of the area to die.

Did I say "everyone in Israel" or just "Israel" broadly, in a manner that literally everybody does when talking about political bodies represented by governments and militaries?

Have you ever referred to "Russia invading Ukraine"? Did you ever interpret that to mean "literally every individual in Russia invading Ukraine"?

Come on. Be real.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you believe that Hamas is a terrorist organization which must stop committing war crimes and return the hostages?

Hamas & others are terrorist organizations that arose in
response to Israel's many decades being a terrorist state.
Apartheid, oppression, murder, theft...& now genocide.
How best to stop that response?
Duh!
End the cause, ie, Israel's brutal
inhumanity towards Palestinians.

 

[metis]

Because most of the world isn't brainwashed into supporting Zionism like we are in the US. They get more factual reporting on the issue than we do. Most of the world is against Israel, and we are the pariahs on this. We just had 3 European countries recognize the state of Palestine. We're the rogues here.

Potatohead in the WH can stop this right now by cutting off weapons shipments to the Zionist aggressors, but he has pledged his undying support for the child killers. So they can have all the 2,000 lbs bombs they want to drop on refugee tents and mangle the bodies of toddlers with.

Gee, what a convenient and highly bigoted stereotype you've posted.

If Hamas were to send rockets your way, threating your family, you would react differently, right?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Gee, what a convenient and highly bigoted stereotype you've posted.

If Hamas were to send rockets your way, threating your family, you would react differently, right?

Don't talk to me about bigotry and stereotypes when all you do is carry water for an ultra-right, genocidally racist rogue regime of religious nutters. How "Christian" of you. They spit on and assault Christians in the street, by the way. The IDF murdered an elderly Catholic woman and her daughter in cold blood.

Well, I would wonder why they would send rockets my way in the first place. Either way, I wouldn't respond by dropping bunker busters on densely populated civilian areas, apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, etc. like a total psychopath.

I thought you had me on ignore, too (yeah, sure you did).

 

[Twilight Hue]

- the vast majority of the killing in this conflict is being done by the IDF, not Hamas.

- attacks by Hamas aren't the thing interfering with humanitarian relief efforts.

- if Hamas were to surrender, the IDF's killings wouldn't stop and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza would continue.

I think that's a lie but reality will always show the truth after a while, but what I will say if peace were to return I guarantee you Hamas would start the next conflict as it always had in the past.

Israel is in its right to destroy the terrorist organization and any and all militant Palestinians actively taking up arms against Israel.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Throughout history, when one side of a war is losing, it's almost always the case that the losing side surrenders.

Why isn't the world calling on Hamas to surrender? If "the world" truly has humanitarian goals, the best way to stop civilian casualties in this war would be for Hamas to surrender.

It's a little hard with religiously motivated fanatics looking forward to their 72 virgin reward and having them put on the wall of martyrdom.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Israel is in its right to destroy the terrorist organization and any and all militant Palestinians actively taking up arms against Israel.

Actually, no they don't. Occupied people have the right to take up arms against illegal occupations. It's part of the right to self-determination.

The right to resist in occupied Palestine: denial and suppression

The right of Palestinians to resist their occupation is enshrined in international and customary law, a fact that is denied and violated by Israel and wilfully overlooked by the rest of the world.

www.opendemocracy.net

Israel has no right to even be occupying Palestinian land, and they certainly don't have the legal right to bomb refugee camps, schools, hospitals and civilian infrastructure, or deprive the population of the basic necessities of life (food, water, electricity, fuel for civilians, etc.). That is all illegal and war crimes. They just get away with it because of the US protecting them. But that looks to be reaching an end soon.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, no they don't. Occupied people have the right to take up arms against illegal occupations.

The right to resist in occupied Palestine: denial and suppression

The right of Palestinians to resist their occupation is enshrined in international and customary law, a fact that is denied and violated by Israel and wilfully overlooked by the rest of the world.

www.opendemocracy.net

Israel has no right to even be occupying Palestinian land, and they don't have the legal right to bomb refugee camps, schools, hospitals and civilian infrastructure.

If it was actually illegal then it wouldn't be happening.

The best that can be done is sanctions, but any country can defend and acquire territory of its attackers.

Keep in mind just who started the recent round of hostilities. It's not Israel. Not by a long shot.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If it was actually illegal then it wouldn't be happening.

That is one ridiculous sentence. You need to actually look at the damn link, which goes over the law. It is legal for Palestinians to take up arms against Israeli forces. Not to kill civilians, but they can fight against IDF.

You can get away with all the war crimes you want when you have the biggest superpower on the planet propping you up and carrying water for you. But that's not going to be enough to keep it going these days as the US and the West wanes in power and the global outrage continues to build against Israel. Former allies and less committed states are turning against them now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is one ridiculous sentence. You need to actually look at the damn link, which goes over the law. It is legal for Palestinians to take up arms against Israeli forces. Not to kill civilians, but they can fight against IDF.

You can get away with all the war crimes you want when you have the biggest superpower on the planet propping you up and carrying water for you. But that's not going to be enough to keep it going these days as the US and the West wanes in power and the global outrage continues to build against Israel. Former allies or less committed states are turning against them now.

Hamas uses human shields and like it or not they can legally go through human shields to get to the terrorists who use them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hamas uses human shields and like it or not they can legally go through human shields to get to the terrorists who use them.

No, they cannot. You're just making things up and ignoring what I've said. Israel uses human shields all the time, itself. The settlements that are right by Gaza are human shields, for instance.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, they cannot. You're just making things up and ignoring what I've said. Israel uses human shields all the time, itself. The settlements that are right by Gaza are human shields, for instance.

No. I'm not making things up. Under certain circumstances it's in the defenders rights to continue.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No. I'm not making things up. Under certain circumstances it's in the defenders rights to continue.

No, it's not. And Israel isn't a "defender" of anything in Gaza. It's not their land.

Now unless you have proof of your claims, like pointing out the relevant laws, there's no point in continuing this discussion. I posted a link which goes over the laws and you've just ignored it. That's not how you have a discussion.

 

[Kathryn]

Sigh. I remember when we were THE superpower on this planet. I'm glad I remember those days because I believe they are long gone now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, it's not. And Israel isn't a "defender" of anything in Gaza. It's not their land.

Now unless you have proof of your claims, like pointing out the relevant laws, there's no point in continuing this discussion. I posted a link which goes over the laws and you've just ignored it. That's not how you have a discussion.

You asked, I'll provide along with source.....


Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sigh. I remember when we were THE superpower on this planet. I'm glad I remember those days because I believe they are long gone now.

The left is systematically destroying this country and attempting to make everything subservient to outside influences in their attempts to hobble the US into submission to outside powers.

I'd wager we won't have an effective world superpower over the course of time if this is allowed to continue.

 

[Kathryn]

The left is systematically destroying this country and attempting to make everything subservient to outside influences in their attempts to hobble the US into submission to outside powers.

I'd wager we won't have an effective world superpower over the course of time if this is allowed to continue.

I wager this too. Unless it's China or Russia and I sure hope it's not one of those. Oh well, I'm not a spring chicken but I feel bad for my grandkids.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wager this too. Unless it's China or Russia and I sure hope it's not one of those. Oh well, I'm not a spring chicken but I feel bad for my grandkids.

Me as well. Being a child of the 60s I witness this degradation continuing on first hand.

I feel for future generations as well and my own life after 2 heart attacks , I fear isn't going to be going on for much longer , but at least I can defend my views and let people know the very real danger this once great country is presently in by those who are proactively chipping away at people's freedoms and liberties as they tear this nation apart at the seems.

At least I had experienced more good years behind me then what I'm seeing in front of me.

That's just my old man's opinion here.