Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?

[Brickjectivity]

Throughout history, when one side of a war is losing, it's almost always the case that the losing side surrenders.

Why isn't the world calling on Hamas to surrender? If "the world" truly has humanitarian goals, the best way to stop civilian casualties in this war would be for Hamas to surrender.

USA failed to protect our ally, and it appears that we ought to have known there were huge tunnels (recently discovered) under the Rafah crossing. The fact that we were building a port kind of makes it look like not, so maybe not. I am not convinced by that. It also looks pretty bad to Israelis who probably suspect us. The failure, however, is that now Israel is going to bristle up. This is what we ought to have avoided. I'm surprised that our satellites could not see the tunnels into Egypt and that we did not predict an attack. I'm not surprised that Egypt was party to Hamas actions. Overall History grinds forward.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And why doesn’t Jordan and Egypt want to help the refugees? If “the world” truly has humanitarian goals, they would assist, feed and help the Palestinians in these two countries until Hamas was removed.

Yes there is a bit of hypocrisy in this issue. The sad fact is that Arab countries often have quite a bit of oil. So it is hard for us to put sanctions on them for not doing the right thing. I wish that when the Arab world first attacked the Israelis in the first Arab Israel war and incited the Palestinians to rise up that they had accepted them as refugees when they lost. But we have to work in the world that we live in now. And that means that both Israel and the Palestinians have to work out something together.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You asked, I'll provide along with source.....


Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

It also says:
"But the presence of "human shields" doesn't free an attacking army from the rule of proportionality — which states that the cost in civilian lives must be justified by the importance of the military objective. Even if one side cynically places civilians between itself and an enemy, that does not give the other side carte blanche to kill everybody."

So Israel still has an obligation to lessen civilian deaths.

And it goes on at length about how Israel and the West are hypocrites on this matter as Israel has been confirmed to use human shields, as well. Maybe you shouldn't post articles that undermine your own argument. Oops. But thanks!

 

[England my lionheart]

Throughout history, when one side of a war is losing, it's almost always the case that the losing side surrenders.

Why isn't the world calling on Hamas to surrender? If "the world" truly has humanitarian goals, the best way to stop civilian casualties in this war would be for Hamas to surrender.

Or even demanding the surviving hostages to be returned whats left of them,,Hamas will never surrender and has no initiative for peace so whats the point of calling on Hamas to surrender?.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It also says:
"But the presence of "human shields" doesn't free an attacking army from the rule of proportionality — which states that the cost in civilian lives must be justified by the importance of the military objective. Even if one side cynically places civilians between itself and an enemy, that does not give the other side carte blanche to kill everybody."

So Israel still has an obligation to lessen civilian deaths.

And it goes on at length about how Israel and the West are hypocrites on this matter as Israel has been confirmed to use human shields, as well. Maybe you shouldn't post articles that undermine your own argument. Oops. But thanks!

That's true. You don't win hearts and minds by killing civilians used by your target.

It's Israel's obligation to minimize non combatants casualties and have no argument along that point , but as long as a legitimate critical military target is identified , there needs to be a decision on if its necessary to proceed with such a mission and the repercussions of collateral damage versus the target itself.

 

[Kathryn]

Me as well. Being a child of the 60s I witness this degradation continuing on first hand.

I feel for future generations as well and my own life after 2 heart attacks , I fear isn't going to be going on for much longer , but at least I can defend my views and let people know the very real danger this once great country is presently in by those who are proactively chipping away at people's freedoms and liberties as they tear this nation apart at the seems.

At least I had experienced more good years behind me then what I'm seeing in front of me.

That's just my old man's opinion here.

I feel much the same way. But we've never been a perfect oasis.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Or even demanding the surviving hostages to be returned whats left of them,,Hamas will never surrender and has no initiative for peace so whats the point of calling on Hamas to surrender?.

Hamas has already proven itself to be incorrigible and beyond redemption. It's a terrorist organization, and like Isis among other militant Islamists , needs to be destroyed without question to where its ineffective at killing people en mass.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I feel much the same way. But we've never been a perfect oasis.

True. One of my first views was the matter occurred was that of Vietnam when I was in primary school when my teacher handed out magazines covering the topic.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, they are victims of Hamas, but do they see it that way? I'm just speculating here, but consider:

How many degrees of separation are there between the typical Gazan and a Hamas terrorist? I'm guessing that many have fathers, brothers, husbands and sons in Hamas or know and are sympathetic to such people. How can these people not know where some of the terrorists are hiding? Or where some of the tunnels are. They likely know where some of the hostages are or have some information. If so, they are protecting Hamas from Israel. Not that Hamas is, but they don't see anybody else defending them, and Hamas is family, or a degree or two of separation removed - a cousin's husband or maybe a neighbor's son they watched grow up.

And if this is the mood there, then those who might want to cooperate with the Israelis do so at risk.

Add in IDF is a violent, brutal oppressor and there's just no incentive to cooperate. Just think how horribly bad things would be going for Hamas has IDF not showed up with bombs but medicine, food, clothes and hope of a brighter, independent future of cooperation and peace. Instead of hiding and supporting Hamas family they'd be begging them to reconsider and put down their arms.

 

[Kenny]

Yes there is a bit of hypocrisy in this issue. The sad fact is that Arab countries often have quite a bit of oil. So it is hard for us to put sanctions on them for not doing the right thing. I wish that when the Arab world first attacked the Israelis in the first Arab Israel war and incited the Palestinians to rise up that they had accepted them as refugees when they lost. But we have to work in the world that we live in now. And that means that both Israel and the Palestinians have to work out something together.

Agreed!

I wonder how many times Israel has given land in the hopes of being recognized and having peace.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hamas has already proven itself to be incorrigible and beyond redemption. It's a terrorist organization, and like Isis among other militant Islamists , needs to be destroyed without question to where its ineffective at killing people en mass.

Yea Hamas haa shown themselves to be real harmless puppydogs.

Yea......

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

www.bbc.com

 

[Twilight Hue]

Add in IDF is a violent, brutal oppressor and there's just no incentive to cooperate. Just think how horribly bad things would be going for Hamas has IDF not showed up with bombs but medicine, food, clothes and hope of a brighter, independent future of cooperation and peace. Instead of hiding and supporting Hamas family they'd be begging them to reconsider and put down their arms.

Yea Hamas has shown themselves to be real harmless puppydogs.

Yea......

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

www.bbc.com

They would never attack first. Oopsy doosy.....

Hamas fires rockets at central Israel for the first time in months.

www.nytimes.com

They did. Oh well.

 

[rocala]

Just think how horribly bad things would be going for Hamas has IDF not showed up with bombs but medicine, food, clothes and hope of a brighter, independent future of cooperation and peace. Instead of hiding and supporting Hamas family they'd be begging them to reconsider and put down their arms.

Yes a very good point. The concept of "hearts and minds" seems to be entirely absent from this conflict.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's an extraordinary claim, where's your good evidence?

You want "good evidence" for my impressions about what will happen in the future?

I remember the humanitarian crisis perpetrated by Israel in Gaza before October 7. Under a ceasefire, I expect that IDF control and restrictions will be even worse than that, even though Gaza will need even more access to the outside world for assistance in building its infrastructure.

The Gaza Strip | The humanitarian impact of 15 years of blockade - June 2022

In June 2007, following the military takeover of Gaza by Hamas, the Israeli authorities significantly intensified existing movement restrictions, virtually isolating the Gaza Strip from the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), and the world. This land, sea and air blockade has...

www.unicef.org

... and that's after a real ceasefire has been achieved. Given the IDF's tactics on the pretense that they're "fighting Hamas", I expect that the Israeli government's response to a surrender by Hamas will be something like "it's wonderful that Hamas surrendered, but there's still some small splinter group out there who hasn't surrendered, so we need to level Gaza again to make sure they're all dead."

 

[Subduction Zone]

Agreed!

I wonder how many times Israel has given land in the hopes of being recognized and having peace.

The only land they have "given" is land that they took. They have far more land than they originally had. Part of the problem is that surrounding Arabic countries have refused to recognize them and sign a proper treaty. Perhaps if they could the return of all lands,except for perhaps Jerusalem could be the solution, with that city being divided.

 

[icehorse]

You want "good evidence" for my impressions about what will happen in the future?

You made a very serious accusation about Israel based on your guess as to the future, that's why I asked.

 

[icehorse]

The only land they have "given" is land that they took. They have far more land than they originally had. Part of the problem is that surrounding Arabic countries have refused to recognize them and sign a proper treaty. Perhaps if they could the return of all lands,except for perhaps Jerusalem could be the solution, with that city being divided.

In order for your claims to be true, you must have an opinion about what time periods we should consider in this situation. Can you explain what time period(s) you think are relevant?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You made a very serious accusation about Israel based on your guess as to the future, that's why I asked.

The evidence is their track record. The last few decades have shown that Israel doesn't need any prextext to treat Palestine cruelly, or to block others from helping to address humanitarian needs there.

 

[icehorse]

The evidence is their track record. The last few decades have shown that Israel doesn't need any prextext to treat Palestine cruelly, or to block others from helping to address humanitarian needs there.

Egypt and the entire world treat "Palestinians" badly. The entire world has stood by for decades and watched this situation unfold. It seems obvious that the entire world has been happy to see Palestinians used as pawns by Jihadis and regional states. Gaza has been a terrorist state for 20 years now, everyone has known it and no one, not the UN, not neighbors of Gaza, have done anything to free Gazans from Jihadis.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Egypt and the entire world treat "Palestinians" badly. The entire world has stood by for decades and watched this situation unfold. It seems obvious that the entire world has been happy to see Palestinians used as pawns by Jihadis and regional states. Gaza has been a terrorist state for 20 years now, everyone has known it and no one, not the UN, not neighbors of Gaza, have done anything to free Gazans from Jihadis.

So you concede that Israel has a long track record of indiscriminately killing Palestinians and you think that it suggests that Egypt is as bad as Israel?

This is bonkers.