Why don't atheists seem like atheists?

[lewisnotmiller]

Good.

To clarify, I reserve the right to dislike certain forms of theism. For example, the Westboro Baptist Church is a stain, in my opinion, and I'm certainly not fond of some forms of Islam. But religion, or theism as concepts are fine. People should be free to believe what they want, but subject to the same basic laws and expectations around how they treat others, etc.

 

[leibowde84]

. Seem like a angry anti-theist.

*SHRUGS*

Some are certainly anti-theist. Some are strong atheists (believe God cannot exist). Some are weak atheists (merely are without a belief in any god).

But, when people make assumptions or stereotypes about all atheists, you should expect them to defend themselves against those dishonest claims. Your OP seems to qualify as one.

 

[DavidFirth]

To clarify, I reserve the right to dislike certain forms of theism. For example, the Westboro Baptist Church is a stain, in my opinion, and I'm certainly not fond of some forms of Islam. But religion, or theism as concepts are fine. People should be free to believe what they want, but subject to the same basic laws and expectations around how they treat others, etc.

That's cool. I just wondered if you were a theist hater or not. Glad you aren't.

 

[Desert Snake]

Some are certainly anti-theist. Some are strong atheists (believe God cannot exist). Some are weak atheists (merely are without a belief in any god).

But, when people make assumptions or stereotypes about all atheists, you should expect them to defend themselves against those dishonest claims. Your OP seems to qualify as one.

Why is that?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's cool. I just wondered if you were a theist hater or not. Glad you aren't.

Nup, certainly not. I have too many theist friends in RL. Can't be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Notanumber]

I'm certainly not fond of some forms of Islam.

If you don't mind me asking, which forms of Islam are you fond of and do they still follow Islamic texts?

 

[leibowde84]

Why is that?

Because not all atheists are anti-theists. When an atheist seems anti-theist, that is probably because they are strong atheists who are also anti-theists.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If you don't mind me asking, which forms of Islam are you fond of and do they still follow Islamic texts?

*chuckles*

Based on life-experience, I mostly seem to be fond of the half-arsed forms that don't take themselves too seriously. I've met enough Muslims that I have respected to not write off Islam, but would struggle to tell you whether this is a matter of their faith being reasonable, or the people holding humanist ideals and interpreting their religion through it.

Quaranists have seemed pretty reasonable to me, in terms of holding their own beliefs, but not forcing them on others.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If you don't mind me asking, which forms of Islam are you fond of and do they still follow Islamic texts?

Sorry, should have added, I tend to be a little low-key with my language use at times. 'not particularly fond of' can mean pretty much anything from 'they're okay I guess' to 'I intensely dislike them', dependent on context.

 

[DavidFirth]

Nup, certainly not. I have too many theist friends in RL. Can't be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

What's RL?

 

[Father Heathen]

What, another pouty, spammy thread?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What's RL?

Sorry...'real life'

As in, away from the internet.

 

[DavidFirth]

Sorry...'real life'

As in, away from the internet.

Oh, okay. I've never heard that before.

 

[Nakosis]

. Seem like a angry anti-theist.

*SHRUGS*

An atheist could also be an anti-theist. The only requirement for being an atheist is to not believe in any God. Other than that, atheists come in lots of different flavors.

 

[columbus]

. Seem like a angry anti-theist.

*SHRUGS*

Many of the most irrationally vicious anti-theists I have ever heard are religionists.
The things Christians say about pagans, or Muslims say about Jews, or whatever like that, are often as not more ignorant and cruel than anything Dawkins or The New Atheists or I would ever say.(out loud, much less on the internet)
The worst anti-theists are religious people who hate other religions.
Tom

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Only thing true about generalizations, such as 'All atheists are anti-theists,' is that they are always false.

By the evidence, many Theists are angry, distrustful, paranoid, and hateful toward not only atheist, but frequently simply those that believe in a different religion, or no religion.

From: Atheists remain most disliked religious minority in the U.S.

"Ten years ago University of Minnesota sociologists conducted research showing that, among a long list of racial and religious minority groups, atheists were the most disliked group of people in the United States. Last month they followed up with new research that shows that Americans still have negative opinions of atheists and the non-religious--and now they have a good theory about why that is.

Their findings are available online in the article “Atheists and Other Cultural Outsiders: Moral Boundaries and the Non-Religious in the United States” (Social Forces). The research team comprises Department of Sociology professors Penny Edgell, Douglas Hartmann, and Joseph Gerteis and graduate student Evan Stewart.

Survey data collected in 2014 shows that, compared to data collected in 2003, Americans have sharpened their negative views of atheists, despite an increase in people identifying as non-religious and an increase in public discussion of non-belief.

The findings of this most recent survey support the argument that atheists are persistent cultural outsiders in the United States because they are perceived to have rejected cultural values and practices understood as essential to private morality, civic virtue, and national identity. Moreover, any refusal to embrace a religious identity of any type is troubling for a large portion of Americans.

Forty percent of Americans view the non-religious--atheist, agnostic, no-religion, and spiritual-but-not-religious--as problematic, even though 33 percent of the survey respondents identify with those categories.

By the numbers, researchers found that:

• 40% of Americans disapprove of non-religion
• 33% of respondents fall into a broad “religious nones” category: 3.8% as atheist, 3.5% as agnostic, 7.1 % as “spiritual but not religious,” and 18.5% as “nothing in particular.”
• 27% of Americans say that atheists “don't share my morals or values.”

As your data indicates, atheists have every reason to also be antitheists, meaning people who see organized, politicized religion as we find in the US as having a net negative impact, and thus would like to see less of it.

The reasons go beyond Christian atheophobia attempting to demonize and marginalize atheists. They do the same to homosexuals (Christian homophobia). As you well know, there's a name for the irrational, hateful, and destructive characterization of every member of a law abiding group: Bigotry. People that object to bigotry should object to both of those.

We also object to demeaning liberal arts education in general and science in particular. Look at this gem from the quiverful movement:

• "While the public school system continues to degenerate into a drug-stupid, sex-oriented, illiterate morass of misfit, Marxist clones, the homeschool movement is producing intelligent, clear-thinking, confident citizens ready to stand in the middle of cascading corruption and declare their allegiance to God and family."

Who needs that in the world?

Then there's the church's very un-American effort to pierce the church-state wall.

I don't particularly care for the attitude that apocalyptic destruction of the earth is a good thing to be joyfully anticipated, or that we don't need to protect the climate, oceans, etc. because the world will end soon.

It's no help telling people that man is a failed species and his world something to avoid being a part of. Man is the only hope for solving problems on earth, and we need people to care, not turn away.

I don't see how the world benefits from defining love in terms of human sacrifice and eternal conscious torment.

And I don't care for the role that the church played in the 2000, 2004, and 2016 presidential elections.

I reject the concept of retributional punishment such as gratuitous punishment for sin that becomes emulated in the prisons, which shouldn't be patterned after hell.
​

Bottom line: I see a lot of bad ideas there, all of which the world would be off with less of.

This is not to say that every Christian buys into this. There is a spectrum from complete acceptance of these ideas to complete repudiation, and I thank and congratulate the Christians that reject the bigotry. the anti-intellectualism, etc..

My point is that in America, there is no shortage of the people from the worst end of the spectrum, those that hold such ideas are virtually all Christians, and virtually no humanist would support any of those ideas.

And the good Christians would be just as good were they humanists instead.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

. Seem like a angry anti-theist.

*SHRUGS*

Many atheists become atheists from hating being told what to believe. Unfortunately they're the loudest bunch.

I just decided one day that God didn't exist because I was doing everything I was told a good person does, and praying, and things got worse for me very quickly. That's more like "I guess it's not that way" while most atheists come from "stop telling me God exists, mom."

I think I was just always quiet about my stance on God so most people think I'm a Christian who doesn't go to church or something. I never really felt like belief was forced upon me, that people just assumed. The anti-theists usually are projecting what others projected onto them by reversing it. (It's not true with all anti-theists, but from my experience it seems to be the case more often than not).

Personally I see benifits and downfalls with both hard atheism and hard theism. So I'm soft on both issues.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I am not an atheist, but yes atheism is a consistent logical belief, but it does require the philosophical/theological assumption that God does not exist.

Whatever you mean by "God," one need not assume that it does not exist to be an atheist. One only need not assume that it does.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

. Seem like a angry anti-theist.

*SHRUGS*

Because when they get angry at you, you feel like they're getting angry at God?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

That does not mean that conversing with various fanatical theists cannot be incredibly frustrating due to their intransigent, highly dogmatic, fixation.

I enjoy that. Perhaps it is because I have different expectations and a different purpose than you do.