Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[sojourner]

And you would be wise to read those scriptural references. The entire Bible is GOD preaching to humanity. Preaching and prophecy are one in the same.

Again, too mythic for my tastes in Biblical scholarship. I don't buy that "the entire Bible is God preaching to humanity."
Try again.
And I don't particularly agree that "preaching and prophecy are one in [sic] the same." Sometimes preaching is prophetic. Sometimes it isn't.

 

[sojourner]

Perhaps we could get back on topic. Can we use some valid arguments to refute the validity of the BOM? Or are we sunk?

 

[LittleNipper]

Again, too mythic for my tastes in Biblical scholarship. I don't buy that "the entire Bible is God preaching to humanity."
Try again.
And I don't particularly agree that "preaching and prophecy are one in [sic] the same." Sometimes preaching is prophetic. Sometimes it isn't.

Is that your opinion, or is GOD telling you that? Preaching is declaring GOD's intent. Prophecy is preaching GOD's design.

 

[idea]

Can we use some valid arguments to refute the validity of the BOM? Or are we sunk?

The BoM is valid, but it is nothing to feel sunk over - it is something to rejoice in finding

 

[LittleNipper]

The BoM is valid, but it is nothing to feel sunk over - it is something to rejoice in finding

What exactly makes it valid?

 

[sojourner]

YESSS! Back on topic!

I'd like an answer to that question, please, for $500, Alex.

 

[idea]

YESSS! Back on topic!

I'd like an answer to that question, please, for $500, Alex.

I'm not Alex but... you should have asked jeff...

check this link out, scroll down, click on whatever topic interests you:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml

so much of what is in the BoM is just now being discovered in American archeology. I find it highly unlikely that Joseph could have known so many names/customs/language/geography/ etc. to just make all of this up – only to have it validated hundreds of years after it was written.
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2001_Boomerang_Hits_and_the_Book_of_Mormon.html

for me, from the Bible we know to expect additional scriptures –
11 Truth shall spring out of the earth
(Old Testament | Psalms 85:11)
The BoM was dug up out of the earth.

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:4)
The BoM is a voice from the ground, a whisper out of the dust.

The sticks of Joseph and of Judah shall be one in the Lord's hand, Ezek. 37:15–20.
Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold, John 10:16

It is the other stick, the other sheep.

26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss(whistle/call) unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:
(Old Testament | Isaiah 5:26)
The BoM is the latter day ensign to the nations.

The real validity of it comes with this script:
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
(Book of Mormon | Moroni 10:4 - 5)

http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml

Better than the above, read the book for yourself.
http://www.mormon.org/freeBookofMormon/1,10120,1405-1-959-794,00.html
or online (although it is pretty long to read online)
http://scriptures.lds.org/

 

[Watchmen]

The truth of the Book of Mormon is not found in its geography, history, or poetic patterns. The truth of the Book of Mormon is in its testimony that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[edward]

...

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
(Old Testament | Isaiah29:4)
The BoM is a voice from the ground, a whisper out of the dust.

Are you saying that the familiar spirit that Isaiah mentions is the Book of Mormon?

Edward

 

[sojourner]

The truth of the Book of Mormon is not found in its geography, history, or poetic patterns. The truth of the Book of Mormon is in its testimony that Jesus is the Christ.

Any book could testify to that. Wouldn't make it scripture, though.

 

[lockyfan]

very true sojourner

 

[edward]

...
The sticks of Joseph and of Judah shall be one in the Lord's hand, Ezek. 37:15–20.

True. That is what the LORD said in verse 19. What does this passage have to do with the Book of Mormon?

Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold, John 10:16
It is the other stick, the other sheep.

How do you come to the conclusion that the "other stick" in Ezekiel is the other sheep Jesus mentioned in the Gospel of John?

Edward

 

[sojourner]

very true sojourner

Finally! We agree!
:takeabow:

I'd like to have a concise definition, though, for "scripture." Only when we determine what constitutes scripture can we set some parameters for it.
They think it's scripture. We don't. What is scripture?

 

[lockyfan]

Finally! We agree!
:takeabow:

I'd like to have a concise definition, though, for "scripture." Only when we determine what constitutes scripture can we set some parameters for it.
They think it's scripture. We don't. What is scripture?

I know Hooray. I think you and i are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[sojourner]

I know Hooray. I think you and i are going to have to agree to disagree.

We might. And that's OK. See, when we get to the heavenly banquet, You'll be partial to the meat and I'll be partial to the relish tray, so ther'll be enough for both of us!
:grill:

 

[lockyfan]

hahaha lol thats funny

Very positive thinking there I like it!

Although I may not agree about the heavenly banquet, but hey thats a different topic.

Ok lets get back to this one..

 

[ἀλήθεια]

We can't point the racism finger without three pointing right back at us.

What we do is compare LDS scripture to the Bible. LDS scripture is racist; the Bible is not.

 

[idea]

What we do is compare LDS scripture to the Bible. LDS scripture is racist; the Bible is not.

you go over the same point again and again. The Bible is racist, only the tribe of Levi was allowed to have the priesthood, no one else. (see Ex 6). Consider in the Bible how the Jews were treated vs. how everyone else was treated. Very racist.

He Gifted Us Our Race

It's not a curse but a gift t'us,
The best path we could seek
A place where God can lift us
We kneel; our knees is weak
And when one of us is kneelin',
We understand his fears.
We know what all us is feelin'
We cry each other's tears.
That's just what Jesus done
For all us human folk.
He agreed to come get born
To feel ever' pain and poke.
So's he could understand us,
What it is to be a slave.
So's he could get beneath us
And push us outa the grave
Would you rather be the massa
Or the Roman with his whip?
Would you rather nail the Savior--
Put vinegar to his lip?
Or learn the lessons of sufferin'--
How we nothin' without grace.
Jesus, He give us a callin'
He gifted us our race.

The last will be first. At one point in time in history, all of us were last.

 

[idea]

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How do you come to the conclusion that the "other stick" in Ezekiel is the other sheep Jesus mentioned in the Gospel of John?

Edward

Because the BoM is a record of the decendants of Ephraim.

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:19)

 

[Katzpur]

You think God's not in touch with us in any way other than scripture?! Wow! God's always in touch with us through the Spirit.

Of course God communicates with us through the Spirit, but He has always done that. Living prophets, however, serve a different purpose, now as in the past. In Old Testament times, for instance, when God wanted to communicate a specific message to all of His followers, He did so through an individual He had personally chosen and designated to be His spokesman. When Jesus Christ built His Church, He established an organization that Paul said was to exist until we all came into a unity of the faith. That organization was built upon a foundation of Prophets and Apostles. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, presumably choosing him because of all the Apostles, he was the only one who realized who Jesus really was -- the Son of the living God. Jesus remarked that it was through revelation from God that Peter knew this. He intended to continue to direct His Church through Peter, who would receive inspired instruction through the Spirit. Today, the Spirit speaks to me in matters regarding my own life and the lives of my family members. But the Spirit doesn't direct the affairs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by communicating with me and the other 13.5 million Latter-day Saints. The Spirit communicates directly with the Prophet who, just as in ancient times, is charged with revealing what is said to him to all of us. Each of us is then responsible to ask for confirmation of the truthfulness of his message. It is through the Spirit that we receive that confirmation.

This is one of the bigger problems I have with the impetus behind Mormonism. Jesus was fully human -- a man, living in time and space, like the rest of us. To lost sight of that is to lose sight of Xy, itself. Jesus appeared among us in a certain time, in a certain place, to a certain group of people.

I totally agree that He was what you say He was, and yet I don't have a problem believing that He also visited His sheep which were not a part of the same fold as those living in the Holy Land. I don't have to lose sight of anything to believe that. Furthermore, when a second witness to the Resurrection (on the other side of the world, yet) stands up and testifies that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind, it does absolutely nothing but strengthen the testimony of the first witness.