Why Has Israel Killed 40,000 Civilians In Gaza?

[Brickjectivity]

Islam isn't a race.

Yeah its not.

Christianity and Judaism have also done this. It's as common to the Abrahamic religions as killing apostates.

Its a failed antiquated political system surpassed by republics with banking. Its a scrapper, and Islamic nations fight too much. I'd expect a religious political system to create peace between fellows of its own religion, but this has not proven to be the case. Islam is not a race, and phobia is innacurate. Its a political system with a religion in it, and the governments that are mired in it must at least say they are guided by its sharia. Meanwhile other countries have proven sharia to be unnecessary. For example there is no modern advantage to chopping the hands off of thieves. Norway doesn't do that, yet it is not drowning in thieves. Islam comes also with the belief that it has antiquated Judaism, but Israel undermines that. Its existence is a problem. It explains why the UN has passed so many resolutions against just one country while ignoring most others. Its existence is inconvenient and protesting against it makes an Islamic government seem more legitimate religiously.

It's another problem for your religious-based claims regarding how Israel's Muslim neighbors are doing. Saudi Arabia is massively wealthy and holds a considerable amount of power. And it has this despite their official sect of Islam being one that is fringe, radical and extremely conservative.

Saudi Arabia receives military support from the USA and sells oil but economically it is unbalanced. It currently is pursuing a plan to decrease its dependence upon oil by 2030. This target is very ambitious, but I hope it is successful. Its unlikely since it is using Islam compliant banking. Were it any other political system it could use modern banking, and it could secure plenty of investment to help make its 2030 Vision come true.

That's a double standard. These were political failures just as much as when they happen under Islam. It used to be the Christian world, much like Pagan Europe, did not separate State and Church and had the two so firmly welded together it was nearly literally impossible for them to even think of such a thing.

I think I have expressed well enough why I think UN has the lion's share of the blame for the current situation and why Israel has to retake Gaza. The UN also did nothing about the situation in Lebanon. Islam exists and is growing, is politically unhealthy for people but also holds sway in the UN and finds both the west and Israel especially inconvenient.

True, but it's also tied to the Zionism that said and keeps saying "mine."

True, and its also true that the UN has fomented a war in Gaza. There is no guarantee Israel can get that UN won't keep supporting terrorists against it through secretive channels. First it was through Arafat. Then it was through Hamas. How it will next fund terrorism I do not know, but it will find new ways. The incredible concrete tunnels and massive numbers of weapons in Gaza cannot have happened without the approving actions of UN people, though many may have been unaware. Though many may have been unaware the organization still is culpable and is still likely to continue doing the same.

Perhaps not as that too says Gaza Health Ministry.
Or perhaps it is as it attempts to cast doubt on something that has been independently verified to be accurate. The White House doubts the numbers? Biden is firmly pro-Israel/anti-Gaza regarding this matter. But those few brave journalists actually facing the dangers are putting out similar numbers. Even in normal times journalists and international groups have found the numbers they report to be accurate.

I personally believe there are 2.3 million in Gaza. That's a number I don't think is disputed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Saudi Arabia receives military support from the USA and sells oil but economically it is unbalanced. It currently is pursuing a plan to decrease its dependence upon oil by 2030. This target is very ambitious, but I hope it is successful. Its unlikely since it is using Islam compliant banking. Were it any other political system it could use modern banking, and it could secure plenty of investment to help make its 2030 Vision come true..

That's very arrogant, to think that a system based on usury, that clearly only serves the privileged in
society/the world, is superior.

Pyramid-selling is unsustainable .. they are not just thinking of 'tomorrow', but of the day after too.
..and perhaps they also don't want to be a target of terrorism and immigration.

I think I have expressed well enough why I think UN has the lion's share of the blame for the current situation.

The UN is not a Capitalist institution to blame .. it consists of member states from many nations.
..perhaps you'd like to suggest a better way of nations to communicate their concerns?

 

[Brickjectivity]

That's very arrogant, to think that a system based on usury, that clearly only serves the privileged in
society/the world, is superior.

Pyramid-selling is unsustainable .. they are not just thinking of 'tomorrow', but of the day after too.
..and perhaps they also don't want to be a target of terrorism and immigration.

Usury gets the job done, and we do not put debtors into prisons. In many situations a debtor may also request protection from the debt, so that they may continue to live, work and have a chance to go forward with their lives living where they wish and pursing the employment they choose or none at all. The usury is therefore a gamble not a guaranteed venture.

The UN is not a Capitalist institution to blame .. it consists of member states from many nations.
..perhaps you'd like to suggest a better way of nations to communicate their concerns?

The UN is an experiment that has shown partial success, so it has value.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Usury gets the job done,

Usury is immoral and chains people into debt, usually for life.

and we do not put debtors into prisons

We sure do. We'll take your home away, too.

How common is debt imprisonment in U.S. today?

Harvard-led study of three states finds thousands are jailed each year for failure to pay court costs, often for misdemeanors.

news.harvard.edu

 

[Brickjectivity]

Usury is immoral and chains people into debt, usually for life.

We sure do. We'll take your home away, too.

How common is debt imprisonment in U.S. today?

Harvard-led study of three states finds thousands are jailed each year for failure to pay court costs, often for misdemeanors.

news.harvard.edu

That's awful. At least its not for normal debts and is only court things, but its still very bad.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's awful. At least its not for normal debts and is only court things, but its still very bad.

You can have your home taken away for medical debts, too, if they sue you. It's happened. They do it with Medicaid debt at times, too. Imagine getting very sick, going into debt over it and then ending up homeless. That's America.

 

[Brickjectivity]

You can have your home taken away for medical debts, too, if they sue you. It's happened. They do it with Medicaid debt at times, too. Imagine getting very sick, going into debt over it and then ending up homeless. That's America.

I don't think Islam is any different except that the debts do not involve interest. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think Islam is any different except that the debts do not involve interest. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't comment on that as I don't know much about what they believe there.

 

[England my lionheart]

This is still an incredibly dumb argument. Of course I realise that less civilians would die if Hamas didn't put them in danger. That's obvious. In what way does that mean that there's no point in opposing war crimes?

Well it really is so obvious,maybe protest the antagonist.

Right. So, that's the point. Committing war crimes is bad.

Casualties are a product of war,if you don’t want casualties don’t go to war.

Again, none of this excuses actual war crimes. Explain to me why war crimes are specifically necessary to fight Hamas.

In war they are not crimes.

Well, gee, I guess you shouldn't care, then.

I actually do care,what a pointless waste of life.

It's hardly surprising that the only response you have to widely reported war crimes is "eh, maybe they didn't happen". That's it. That's literally the only argument you can make.

**** happens in war,propaganda is more abundant.

So, let's meet you at your level: let's imagine an entirely hypothetical scenario where all of these very widely-reported and verified events definitely totally happened. Would they be justified or not?

First you have to establish they did,your sources, etc.

Why do you keep going back to this well if you believe war crimes don't justify further war crimes?

What I see is “Israel commit war crimes” but Hamas ie Palestinians are victims,the reality is Hamas slaughtered 1400 unarmed revellers at a peace concert,raped and opened the stomachs of pregnant women,this is very telling about “pro Palestine” movement,it’s never mentioned.

How does any of these things being true justify FURTHER WAR CRIMES.

I am tired of going around in circles. We already agree Hamas are bad, and commit war crimes, and put civilians in danger. The question is whether or not this justifies Israel's specific actions in response which amount to multiple credible cases of war crimes, and a current ongoing investigation by the international court into whether or not Israel is engaging in genocide.

Let me know the result of the multiple alleged cases of war crimes and the judgement.

Stop going on about Hamas. We all agree they're bad. It doesn't justify what Israel is currently doing.

Oh no,you are right,we shouldn’t mention a terrorist organisation that governs Gaza,we should all hate Israel.

Because, as we all know, Israeli government's fifty-plus years of illegal annexation, war crimes and murders did a really good job of ensuring peace for Israeli and Palestinian civilians, yeah? Has it perhaps entered your brain that, has Israel not continually engaged in direct agitation, annexation and oppression, they needn't have been up against Hamas to begin with? Sort of renders your whole "If Hamas just did the right thing" argument a bit hypocritical. You believe Israel should get away with decades of oppression and war crimes, while the war crimes of Hamas deserve to be met with further war crimes.

You need to go further back than that,basically you need to research more,a good starting point is the Muslim brotherhood,Hassan al Banna,sayyid Qutb,the PLO,the Hebron massacre.

Then blame them. Start with the war crimes they're committing.

Why not just say “I hate Jews Zionists and Israelis” you have it all covered then just like Hamas and the PLJ.

Does that justify war crimes against civilians, yes or no?

Poor question,civilians die in wars.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its a failed antiquated political system surpassed by republics with banking. Its a scrapper, and Islamic nations fight too much. I'd expect a religious political system to create peace between fellows of its own religion,

Once again you offer no criticism of Islam that Christianity evades. "It is a scrapper, and Christian nations fight too much." We change that one thing and we are still left with a historically accurate statement.
And why this expectation? Religions aren't magical, they are made by and ran by humans, and there's no real reason for us to assume a religious nation will be good.

Islam is not a race, and phobia is innacurate

Phobia includes more than race (arachnophobia, acrophobia, homophobia). It's an irrational fear, hatred, prejudice and aversion towards a group, situation or object.

Islam comes also with the belief that it has antiquated Judaism, but Israel undermines that. Its existence is a problem. It explains why the UN has passed so many resolutions against just one country while ignoring most others. Its existence is inconvenient and protesting against it makes an Islamic government seem more legitimate religiously.

Again, religious adherents having a pissing contest between their gods isn't really an argument for why or how the situation is bad. And how about actually examples of what is embarassing about it to them.

Saudi Arabia receives military support from the USA and sells oil but economically it is unbalanced. It currently is pursuing a plan to decrease its dependence upon oil by 2030. This target is very ambitious, but I hope it is successful. Its unlikely since it is using Islam compliant banking. Were it any other political system it could use modern banking, and it could secure plenty of investment to help make its 2030 Vision come true.

Saudi Arabia largely stands in it's own amd is incredible wealthy from selling oil.

I think I have expressed well enough why I think UN has the lion's share of the blame for the current situation and why Israel has to retake Gaza. The UN also did nothing about the situation in Lebanon. Islam exists and is growing, is politically unhealthy for people but also holds sway in the UN and finds both the west and Israel especially inconvenient.

The UN doesn't share blame like the Zionists do. It's the Zionists who showed up in Palestine and said mine and stole a massive chunk of land, amd several decades later they continue to steal land from the Palestinians.
And it's not Israel retaking Gaza. It was never theirs. They are occuoying and stealing it against international law.

True, and its also true that the UN has fomented a war in Gaza

No, the Zionists started this before the League of Nations even existed.

I personally believe there are 2.3 million in Gaza. That's a number I don't think is disputed.

And independent sources and reviews don't doubt the number of dead in this ongoing genocide. If anything, as occasionally gets pointed out, that number is likely on the low side as is common in active warzones.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In war they are not crimes.

And yet lots of nations and people have decided that is most definitely not the case. Sure, those like Hitler and Stalin would agree, but indeed there have been international trials and executions for such crimes.

Poor question,civilians die in wars.

You're attitude would be different if it were the Celtic nations doing it to you.

 

[England my lionheart]

And yet lots of nations and people have decided that is most definitely not the case. Sure, those like Hitler and Stalin would agree, but indeed there have been international trials and executions for such crimes.

From my recollections of history it was only the Nuremberg trials that led to war crimes executions and the ones for the Japanese.

You're attitude would be different if it were the Celtic nations doing it to you.

I doubt it,I’m English but we all have some Celtic in us although I support Rangers

 

[England my lionheart]

From my recollections of history it was only the Nuremberg trials that led to war crimes executions and the ones for the Japanese.

I doubt it,I’m English but we all have some Celtic in us although I support Rangers

Here’s a Celtic nation having it done to them ;-/

 

[metis]

Here’s a Celtic nation having it done to them ;-/

And we had it here in the States with Japanese Americans during WWII.

 

[England my lionheart]

And we had it here in the States with Japanese Americans during WWII.

You did,.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Once again you offer no criticism of Islam that Christianity evades. "It is a scrapper, and Christian nations fight too much." We change that one thing and we are still left with a historically accurate statement.
...

I'm talking about political systems and see Islam as one but not Christianity.

And why this expectation? Religions aren't magical, they are made by and ran by humans, and there's no real reason for us to assume a religious nation will be good.

Your comment shows that while atheism isn't a religion there are atheist religions. Flying Spaghetti Monster is only one of them. An atheist who preaches atheism is religious.

Phobia includes more than race (arachnophobia, acrophobia, homophobia). It's an irrational fear, hatred, prejudice and aversion towards a group, situation or object.

You think 'Islamaphobia' refers to hate, fear, prejudice or aversion towards Islam as a political system? That's why its a useless made up term, as if there could be no rationale for judging a political system on its merits and demerits. All you're saying is shut up and don't compare.

Saudi Arabia largely stands in it's own amd is incredible wealthy from selling oil.

The royals are anyway.

The UN doesn't share blame like the Zionists do. It's the Zionists who showed up in Palestine and said mine and stole a massive chunk of land, amd several decades later they continue to steal land from the Palestinians.
And it's not Israel retaking Gaza. It was never theirs. They are occuoying and stealing it against international law.

Israel is in Palestine. I remember DYBMH (an Israeli) saying that before 1948 much of the 1948 land was purchased by Jews before the state was recognized. I also saw this in a book. The UN also assigned Israel the duty to administer other areas such as Gaza strip and West Bank. The Palestine Liberation Organization formed in 1964 in preparation to destroy Israel completely. I do not know about the 1967 land that was taken after the 6 day war, but that land was definitely taken including half of Jerusalem as well as the Golan Heights which were taken to prevent Syria reigning down missiles from there. *Also this was when Gaza and West Bank were taken.* I suppose that the other half of Jerusalem was taken because why not when everybody around was planning to destroy Israel completely, but the UN did not see it as fair. Still doesn't. The PLO made this possible, just as Hamas has made necessary the retaking of Gaza as an administrative zone. Israel withdrew from that zone and it was a deadly mistake. Which proves withdrawing to 1967 borders would be deadly as well. Its much safer to continue to hold its winnings.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm talking about political systems and see Islam as one but not Christianity.

This ignores history. Christianity has been the political basis of much of the West. Those such as Alfred the Great, for example, did not separate the Church from the State, and saw his religion as thd basis of how his kingdom ought to be ruled and how he should behave as a king chosen by god.
Amd then their is the Vatican. It's recognized as it's own state by many, meaning still today we find Christianity and the Church at the center of a political system.

Your comment shows that while atheism isn't a religion there are atheist religions. Flying Spaghetti Monster is only one of them. An atheist who preaches atheism is religious.

That has nothing to do with my post. It has nothing to do with atheism or preaching but pointing there is no reason at all to reasonably assume that states ran accordingly to one religion should be better off than or worse off than those of another religion. It only works that way when adherents drag their god into a pissing contest.

You think 'Islamaphobia' refers to hate, fear, prejudice or aversion towards Islam as a political system? That's why its a useless made up term, as if there could be no rationale for judging a political system on its merits and demerits. All you're saying is shut up and don't compare.

You're actually demonstrating my point by making exceptions and excuses for Christianity regarding the things you accuse Islam of.
It's no more a political system than Christianity with its Kingdom and intolerance amd hatred of others.

The royals are anyway.

Even regular citizens benefit. Even international students can go to some colleges there tuition free.

Israel is in Palestine. I remember DYBMH (an Israeli) saying that before 1948 much of the 1948 land was purchased by Jews before the state was recognized. I also saw this in a book. The UN also assigned Israel the duty to administer other areas such as Gaza strip and West Bank. The Palestine Liberation Organization formed in 1964 in preparation to destroy Israel completely.

You'd fight to if someon took yours amd your neighbors homes and deliberately made you poor, under serviced amd treated you upfront like you're guilty.

The PLO made this possible, just as Hamas has made necessary the retaking of Gaza as an administrative zone. Israel withdrew from that zone and it was a deadly mistake. Which proves withdrawing to 1967 borders would be deadly as well. Its much safer to continue to hold its winnings.

Doing that would be about the stupidest thing Israel can do. It's bad enough Hamas didn't win a mandate and then and today most Palestinians did not vote for them but are punished anyways. Making things even worse by dominanting them in such a way is a promise to Israel that future attacks may make Oct. 7th look mild.
Israel has historic models to rely on to pursue peace. Instead they are taking a route that history shows us again and again is foolishness that perpetuates violence.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm talking about political systems and see Islam as one but not Christianity.

What about the Holy Roman Empire?

Israel withdrew from that zone and it was a deadly mistake. Which proves withdrawing to 1967 borders would be deadly as well. Its much safer to continue to hold its winnings.

No .. it would be 'much safer' not to have an extreme right-wing govt. in Israel.
We are all human beings you know, and while Israel might be successful in the short-term
with its current policies, it is only storing up more hatred for itself and further destabilizing
the world.

..and demonizing the UN can only make matters worse.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What about the Holy Roman Empire?

Gone.

No .. it would be 'much safer' not to have an extreme right-wing govt. in Israel.
We are all human beings you know, and while Israel might be successful in the short-term
with its current policies, it is only storing up more hatred for itself and further destabilizing
the world.

..and demonizing the UN can only make matters worse.

The PLO forms before the 1967 war. Withdrawing creates a means for the PLO to create a military in a new area adjacent to Israel, but I suppose that the UN could conceivably pass even more resolutions or spread more rumors about genocides that haven't actually occurred.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Gone.

Are you sure about that .. hasn't it just morphed into something else?

The Group of Seven (G7) is an intergovernmental political and economic forum consisting of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States;
...
The concept of a forum for the capitalist world's major industrialized countries emerged before the 1973 oil crisis. On 25 March 1973, the United States Secretary of the Treasury, George Shultz, convened an informal gathering of finance ministers from West Germany (Helmut Schmidt), France (Valéry Giscard d'Estaing), and the United Kingdom (Anthony Barber) before an upcoming meeting in Washington, DC.
G7 - Wikipedia