Why I am a good proof that there is a God

[joelr]

Exactly, but not just a crime, is there anyone who would seriously not do everything in their power to prevent a child be raped? Yet we are to believe a perfectly merciful deity with limitless power and knowledge, sits on its hands and lets it happen all the time. Were it true, such a deity would be an amoral monster.

And it was called an "epidemic"?! That means a lot of cases!

 

[joelr]

Level one:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Level two:
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Level Three:
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Uh, no those are not levels of faith?
Those 3 random scripture do not say what you say in your list?

Let me compare them directly -

"Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
God works in the background but the person tends to act mostly on his own which means he can sin,"


No. This is all the qualities of perfect living according to Paul,

"Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
God leads a person which means that it is a lot less likely the person can sin"

NO. This means if led by spirit you will not sin. It isn't another level. The first one is also talking about the "spirit".


Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.[
God is in complete control which means the person can't sin.


NO, not faith, this one is about since God made a rule about sin and sacrifice he had to have a magic blood atonement sacrifice where his son dies to forgive sins for followers. Except he didn't die, he came back to life then went to Heaven. So the "God gave up his Son" thing is a bit of a work? Hellenism doesn't always make sense?

 

[Sheldon]

And it was called an "epidemic"?! That means a lot of cases!

All the evidence suggest child abuse by RC clergy was endemic across the globe. letting men have this level of power over children, without proper checks and precautions is unconscionable, but the RCC's reaction has been as egregious a crime against humanity as one can imagine. Those responsible have lost aby credibility of morality, let alone as the sole arbiters of the moral views of a perfect deity.

The idea that a deity sat and allowed this is an equally appalling notion, and were it true any claim for the perfect morality of such a deity would be demonstrably groundless. As it is clear we can know nothing about what is moral, if we accept that any complicity in child rape is ever justifiable in any way. Thus any claim about the morality of a deity would be unjustified, and the best you can say is you are prepared to blindly cherry pick ethics and morality from archaic religious tomes derive from the archaic patriarchal human societies in which the stories originated.

I'd take my chances with fallible secular morality, that was primarily motivated with the wellbeing of other humans and other conscious animals any day.

 

[Viker]

I believe first and foremost God is real because He abides in me.

My testimony to that affect should be enough but people need to know there are discernable affects that indicate god is present.

1. God speaks to me.
2. God gives me dreams and visons.
3. God heals my diseases.
4. God keeps me from sin.
5. God helps me to understand scripture
6. God speaks through me.

I noticed there is a lot of me's and my's in there.

 

[joelr]

All the evidence suggest child abuse by RC clergy was endemic across the globe. letting men have this level of power over children, without proper checks and precautions is unconscionable, but the RCC's reaction has been as egregious a crime against humanity as one can imagine. Those responsible have lost aby credibility of morality, let alone as the sole arbiters of the moral views of a perfect deity.

The idea that a deity sat and allowed this is an equally appalling notion, and were it true any claim for the perfect morality of such a deity would be demonstrably groundless. As it is clear we can know nothing about what is moral, if we accept that any complicity in child rape is ever justifiable in any way. Thus any claim about the morality of a deity would be unjustified, and the best you can say is you are prepared to blindly cherry pick ethics and morality from archaic religious tomes derive from the archaic patriarchal human societies in which the stories originated.

I'd take my chances with fallible secular morality, that was primarily motivated with the wellbeing of other humans and other conscious animals any day.

And Christians just say "oh they were not being Christian" and still support the church and the cover ups. Not one RC member I know made any changes since that happened. They have some infuriating apologetics as to why Yahweh didn't intervene. It's hard to listen to.

 

[Sheldon]

And Christians just say "oh they were not being Christian" and still support the church and the cover ups. Not one RC member I know made any changes since that happened. They have some infuriating apologetics as to why Yahweh didn't intervene. It's hard to listen to.

It must be difficult for the average Catholic to come to terms with, but resorting to a no true Scotsman fallacy is too obviously an irrational response. I watched a YouTube video where a pastor in the states relentlessly tried to imply the paedophiles within the RCC were gay, and that homosexuality was to blame. Scapegoating using bigoted homophobia, and using known logical fallacies, doesn't suggest they're learning much form this catastrophic abdication of moral responsibility, for the children placed in their care. It is both infuriating and heart-breaking in equal measure.

 

[joelr]

It must be difficult for the average Catholic to come to terms with, but resorting to a no true Scotsman fallacy is too obviously an irrational response. I watched a YouTube video where a pastor in the states relentlessly tried to imply the paedophiles within the RCC were gay, and that homosexuality was to blame. Scapegoating using bigoted homophobia, and using known logical fallacies, doesn't suggest they're learning much form this catastrophic abdication of moral responsibility, for the children placed in their care. It is both infuriating and heart-breaking in equal measure.

It is infuriating hearing apologetics to allow for that to be ok. I try to stay away from that debate because some people are far too brain-washed and full of hate.

 

[Muffled]

Uh, no those are not levels of faith?
Those 3 random scripture do not say what you say in your list?

Let me compare them directly -

"Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
God works in the background but the person tends to act mostly on his own which means he can sin,"


No. This is all the qualities of perfect living according to Paul,

"Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
God leads a person which means that it is a lot less likely the person can sin"

NO. This means if led by spirit you will not sin. It isn't another level. The first one is also talking about the "spirit".


Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.[
God is in complete control which means the person can't sin.


NO, not faith, this one is about since God made a rule about sin and sacrifice he had to have a magic blood atonement sacrifice where his son dies to forgive sins for followers. Except he didn't die, he came back to life then went to Heaven. So the "God gave up his Son" thing is a bit of a work? Hellenism doesn't always make sense?

I believe you lack understanding. Paul is most likely referring to this:
John 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

I believe fruit grows naturally but a leading requires special attention to a particular matter.

I believe walking is unlike being led. It means a continuous consciousness of God within and God in control.

 

[Muffled]

I noticed there is a lot of me's and my's in there.

I believe a personal relationship is personal.

 

[Viker]

I believe a personal relationship is personal.

Me, too.

 

[Muffled]

And Christians just say "oh they were not being Christian" and still support the church and the cover ups. Not one RC member I know made any changes since that happened. They have some infuriating apologetics as to why Yahweh didn't intervene. It's hard to listen to.

I wouldn't be so sure that Yahweh didn't intervene. After all they did get caught and somehow individuals decided that morality was more important than the church. You don't see Jesus acquiescing when the temple was cheating in the temple. He overthrew their tables and had something to say about it.

 

[joelr]

I believe you lack understanding. Paul is most likely referring to this:
John 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

I believe fruit grows naturally but a leading requires special attention to a particular matter.

I believe walking is unlike being led. It means a continuous consciousness of God within and God in control.

That has nothing to do with Gal 5:22. That is an explanation of how to live properly. At any rate this new scripture you post still has nothing to do with levels of faith.
It's a metaphor explaining Jesus is the vine and followers are branches, if you stay on the vine then you can bear fruit. If you break off the vine you cannot.
It's more brainwashing to follow one demigod or else you fall off the tree. Clever.

 

[joelr]

I wouldn't be so sure that Yahweh didn't intervene. After all they did get caught and somehow individuals decided that morality was more important than the church. You don't see Jesus acquiescing when the temple was cheating in the temple. He overthrew their tables and had something to say about it.

First he didn't intervene because he's a fictional character in a myth.
He also didn't intervene because there were hundreds of cases uncovered and this has likely been happening since the beginning. One thousand years of child rape happened. Then, right when it becomes acceptable to start pointing the finger at the church (any earlier in time and you could have taken severe criticism and the church would deny it) then does it finally come out.
Yeah, no, nothing intervened.

What the hell does that Jesus tale have to do with men molesting children?

 

[Muffled]

It must be difficult for the average Catholic to come to terms with, but resorting to a no true Scotsman fallacy is too obviously an irrational response. I watched a YouTube video where a pastor in the states relentlessly tried to imply the paedophiles within the RCC were gay, and that homosexuality was to blame. Scapegoating using bigoted homophobia, and using known logical fallacies, doesn't suggest they're learning much form this catastrophic abdication of moral responsibility, for the children placed in their care. It is both infuriating and heart-breaking in equal measure.

I believe homosexuality is a sin and it was men molesting boys.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe first and foremost God is real because He abides in me.

My testimony to that affect should be enough but people need to know there are discernable affects that indicate god is present.

1. God speaks to me.
2. God gives me dreams and visons.
3. God heals my diseases.
4. God keeps me from sin.
5. God helps me to understand scripture
6. God speaks through me.

First and foremost, I want you to know that my response to your OP isn't a personal attack against you. I'm not trying to call you out and discredit you, either. I want to make that clear to you that my response to your OP is sincere, as is my question.

Why did God help you and not me?

• 1. As a child, I prayed and asked God to stop the abuse. I constantly prayed and asked him to save me.
• 2. I suffered 14 years of physical abuse, physiological abuse, sexual abuse, and constant bullying in school.
• 3. I've suffered from PTSD for several years now. I suffer from many physical ailments that hinder my life.
• 4. I'm dealing with depression and anxiety, and I'm still haunted by the trauma I suffered while growing up.
• 5. I wasted 31 years of my life desperately holding onto the false hope that God loves me and he'll help me.

I used to believe that God is real, but I'm not sure about that anymore. Honestly, it's much less painful for me to believe that God doesn't exist, then accept the reality that God does exists, and he did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse and bullying I suffered while I was growing up. There was no escaping the constant abuse and bullying because no one in my family, or anyone else who knew my situation, tried to help me. No one called the police or CPS. I was left alone to deal with the living hell I was trapped in all by myself. God was nowhere to be found, either. God didn't intervene and save me, despite my frantic prayers to him. He allowed the abuse and bullying to continue while I was growing up. I suffered this abuse and bullying for 14 years until I left home when I was 18. I'm at the point now where I believe that I was a fool to hold onto my Christian faith for 31 years. Detoxing from Christianity has been a very painful experience for me, and I'm still in the process of letting go of my belief in God and letting go of my faith.

 

[Muffled]

First and foremost, I want you to know that my response to your OP isn't a personal attack against you. I'm not trying to call you out and discredit you, either. I want to make that clear to you that my response to your OP is sincere, as is my question.

Why did God help you and not me?

• 1. As a child, I prayed and asked God to stop the abuse. I constantly prayed and asked him to save me.
• 2. I suffered 14 years of physical abuse, physiological abuse, sexual abuse, and constant bullying in school.
• 3. I've suffered from PTSD for several years now. I suffer from many physical ailments that hinder my life.
• 4. I'm dealing with depression and anxiety, and I'm still haunted by the trauma I suffered while growing up.
• 5. I wasted 31 years of my life desperately holding onto the false hope that God loves me and he'll help me.

I used to believe that God is real, but I'm not sure about that anymore. Honestly, it's much less painful for me to believe that God doesn't exist, then accept the reality that God does exists, and he did absolutely nothing to stop the abuse and bullying I suffered while I was growing up. There was no escaping the constant abuse and bullying because no one in my family, or anyone else who knew my situation, tried to help me. No one called the police or CPS. I was left alone to deal with the living hell I was trapped in all by myself. God was nowhere to be found, either. God didn't intervene and save me, despite my frantic prayers to him. He allowed the abuse and bullying to continue while I was growing up. I suffered this abuse and bullying for 14 years until I left home when I was 18. I'm at the point now where I believe that I was a fool to hold onto my Christian faith for 31 years. Detoxing from Christianity has been a very painful experience for me, and I'm still in the process of letting go of my belief in God and letting go of my faith.

1. I do not know the answer to that but I can tell you if it were me I would not have been off my knees until I had an answer. I believe I can tell you why I got loving parents. I came down from Heaven which meant I was already a good person that God likes to reward. Evil people tend to pay for their sins in their next life if not in the current one.

5. I believe God loved you through all those years and still does. I believe Job had an advantage over you. He was a righteous man and held onto his faith until the end.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1. I do not know the answer to that but I can tell you if it were me I would not have been off my knees until I had an answer. I believe I can tell you why I got loving parents. I came down from Heaven which meant I was already a good person that God likes to reward. Evil people tend to pay for their sins in their next life if not in the current one.

5. I believe God loved you through all those years and still does. I believe Job had an advantage over you. He was a righteous man and held onto his faith until the end.

I was a Christian for thirty-one years, and I've read and studied the bible many times. I can honestly say that I'm well versed in scripture. Anyway, I decided to mention this to you because I know that the bible says only God is good (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19), we are born into sin (Psalm 51:5), we are all like sheep who have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6), no one is righteous (Romans 3:9-18) and without sin (1 John 1:8), and all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12). Furthermore, the bible makes it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is the only living person who was without sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 1:18-19; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5). I'm citing these scriptures because I've never heard a Christian ever profess that they came down from heaven, and they're already a good person that God likes to reward. That's a new one for me. As far as Job is concerned, he probably did have an advantage over me, but I'm not him, and I finally let go of my personal Christian faith and belief in God.

 

[lukethethird]

I believe first and foremost God is real because He abides in me.

My testimony to that affect should be enough but people need to know there are discernable affects that indicate god is present.

1. God speaks to me.
2. God gives me dreams and visons.
3. God heals my diseases.
4. God keeps me from sin.
5. God helps me to understand scripture
6. God speaks through me.

If this is what you claim you believe, sure, OK.
People believe all manner of things, real and imagined, so why should people need to know what you believe? Is it like an urge or an itch you got to scratch?

 

[Muffled]

If this is what you claim you believe, sure, OK.
People believe all manner of things, real and imagined, so why should people need to know what you believe? Is it like an urge or an itch you got to scratch?

I believe I often state that I am proof that God exists but of course that isn't enough so I have this post to flesh that out more but of course it still isn't enough.

 

[lukethethird]

I believe I often state that I am proof that God exists but of course that isn't enough so I have this post to flesh that out more but of course it still isn't enough.

Of course it's not enough, it's your beliefs, all the religious have them.