Why I believe God Created Life.

[McBell]

The issue is that for something to become a "fact" it needs to be proven in a lab, it can be proven in small segments, but to run an experiment that lasts thousands of years is inconceivable, evolution in the technical sense cannot be proven which leaves the door open to many other possibilities!

The only question is:

Are you simply ignorant of evolution or are you simply a liar?​

 

[Simurgh]

The issue is that for something to become a "fact" it needs to be proven in a lab, it can be proven in small segments, but to run an experiment that lasts thousands of years is inconceivable, evolution in the technical sense cannot be proven which leaves the door open to many other possibilities!

What exactly are you trying to say here? That your religion is a fraud? I mean, your idea what constitutes proof makes sure that no religion can ever be found to have any truth value. There are no facts to be found anywhere that can be observed, proven in a lab or elsewhere, or corroborated by independent sources. There is no proof of any godling to exist, or ever having existed.

You seem to think that evolution and its myriad of observable facts and empirical evidence--and more of that is added each day--cannot be proven in a technical sense. And again, those criteria leave religion as nothing more than a fairytale.
You exist comfortably in never-never land of mythology and wishful thinking, but we who have science to explain how the world works are failing your "fact" criteria?

So, what incense are you inhaling to get to that point of "understanding"?

 

[Parsimony]

So I have also read a few ideas that the 7 "days" in the bible are actually different periods and not days like we're used to using. So maybe that 6th day animals were created was actually 100 million years ago. We decided what to call days we weren't given a manual that says how long they are. They're saying that in November they found fossils that are over 3.5 billion years old based on carbon based isotope testing. I'm not sure that I can believe that but what I don't understand is how they can say the earth is only a few thousand years old. My head sometimes spins thinking about this but I want to know the answers and finally close my own personal gap(s) on science and faith no matter what your religion.

Carbon dating can't be used for samples that old. It only works for things up to 50,000-60,000 years old. Something else like uranium-lead dating may have been used in the case you speak of.

 

[Ouroboros]

Carbon dating can't be used for samples that old. It only works for things up to 50,000-60,000 years old. Something else like uranium-lead dating may have been used in the case you speak of.

I think he's talking about an experiment some intelligent design scientists did a few years back. They got trace readings using carbon dating which can be attributed to fault tolerance the equipment had. It can't read lower than a certain amount and if you get that threshold number, you can't use it, which they did anyway. (Something like that. Just talking from my sometimes very flawed memory here.)

 

[rusra02]

What's terribly wrong with the above is that these were old hypotheses based on limited information, and we know so much more now than even two decades ago.

Problems with dating using these methods, such as carbon-14, remain. Interested persons can use Internet search to verify this. Since this thread is entitled "Why I believe God Created Life", I think it appropriate to reiterate:

* "In his book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, molecular biologist Michael Denton states: “Even the simplest of all living systems on earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, . . . each is in effect a veritable microminiaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery . . . far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world.”
(The Bible reasons that houses have builders and so does the universe. (Hebrews 3:4))
Regarding the genetic code in each cell, Denton states: “The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system; it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. . . . Alongside the level of ingenuity and complexity exhibited by the molecular machinery of life, even our most advanced [products] appear clumsy. We feel humbled.”
(It was study of DNA that led former atheist Antony Flew to change his mind and believe in God. Not just the storage capacity of DNA, unequaled by anything produced by intelligent scientists, but the information encoded in DNA, a recipe or program to create a living creature, convinces me this could never have happened by chance, happenstance, the environment, or in any other way than an infinitely intelligent Creator.
I believe the words recorded at Psalm 139:16 are literally true:"Your eyes even saw me as an embryo; All its parts were written in your book Regarding the days when they were formed, Before any of them existed." The DNA book has all our parts written in the genome. The human genome is made up of about three billion base pairs. )

 

[rusra02]

So I have also read a few ideas that the 7 "days" in the bible are actually different periods and not days like we're used to using. So maybe that 6th day animals were created was actually 100 million years ago. We decided what to call days we weren't given a manual that says how long they are. They're saying that in November they found fossils that are over 3.5 billion years old based on carbon based isotope testing. I'm not sure that I can believe that but what I don't understand is how they can say the earth is only a few thousand years old. My head sometimes spins thinking about this but I want to know the answers and finally close my own personal gap(s) on science and faith no matter what your religion.

It is true the Bible's creative days are far longer than 24 hour periods. Regarding the seventh day. The Bible indicates it continues even down to our time. (Hebrews 4:4-10)

 

[Apostlelypse]

The only question is:

Are you simply ignorant of evolution or are you simply a liar?​

I am not ignorant of Evolution. You However may be ignorant to the scientific method. It's still called the "Theory of evolution" Like I said, The evidence strongly supports it, but is it really life altering true or not? Evolution does not prove or disprove God, it only tells us how we ended up here. At the end of the day I have faith that gives me strength.

What exactly are you trying to say here? That your religion is a fraud? I mean, your idea what constitutes proof makes sure that no religion can ever be found to have any truth value. There are no facts to be found anywhere that can be observed, proven in a lab or elsewhere, or corroborated by independent sources. There is no proof of any godling to exist, or ever having existed.

You seem to think that evolution and its myriad of observable facts and empirical evidence--and more of that is added each day--cannot be proven in a technical sense. And again, those criteria leave religion as nothing more than a fairytale.
You exist comfortably in never-never land of mythology and wishful thinking, but we who have science to explain how the world works are failing your "fact" criteria?

So, what incense are you inhaling to get to that point of "understanding"?

You don't even know what my religion is, Not once did I try to back creation or any biblical idea aside from belief in God, Because frankly I don't completely believe the creationist story either. Religion isn't about believing every word of a the book that supports your chosen religion, It's about having a spiritual connection to the higher powers above us. Do you really think that just because evolution may be true, it falsifies any sense of higher power/grand design, Because there's scientific evidence supporting that too. All those things are far beyond human comprehension, which is why religions of the world seems to have fallible interpretations. You can choose to believe what you want. At the end of the day I have faith in God. I have felt enlightenment, and I will die feeling like a complete man who has found salvation.

 

[metis]

Problems with dating using these methods, such as carbon-14, remain.

Actually not. When used properly, which is now standard procedure, C-14 is mostly accurate because it has been adjusted because of environmental variables.

 

[Simurgh]

…You don't even know what my religion is, Not once did I try to back creation or any biblical idea aside from belief in God, Because frankly I don't completely believe the creationist story either. Religion isn't about believing every word of a the book that supports your chosen religion, It's about having a spiritual connection to the higher powers above us. Do you really think that just because evolution may be true, it falsifies any sense of higher power/grand design, Because there's scientific evidence supporting that too. All those things are far beyond human comprehension, which is why religions of the world seems to have fallible interpretations. You can choose to believe what you want. At the end of the day I have faith in God. I have felt enlightenment, and I will die feeling like a complete man who has found salvation.

[FONT=&quot]No, I don’t know what flavor god you have and it doesn’t matter since all gods function in the same cop-out system. And sure, like other religionists, you cherry-pick whatever suits you in the given religious context. Nothing new and exciting there since that is also a common religionist behavior.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You make a mistake in assuming that I believe in evolution as if it were a religious tradition, I don’t, I accept the scientific theory upon which it is predicated as viable and showing the evidence that supports its claims. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Scientific theory and religion do not mix. You claim that there is scientific evidence that there is a higher power (I assume you mean something else besides the man-made gods we have floating around) and/or grand design (the usual ID ideas?). What evidence? I have yet to see any other than that pseudo-science called ID or creationism. Quite frankly, an amusement park exhibit that styles itself as a “museum” and displays a Jesus walking alongside a dinosaur is not my idea of science or a museum.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And of course that ultimate nonsense of stuff that goes beyond human comprehension. You mean the whole thing about why there are tides? That is only a problem for O’Reilly and his audience, the rest of us simply learn about the reason behind that phenomenon in science class.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do love that thing about fallible interpretations though. Sure, if things turn out to be wrong in some religious text, then all that “truth” just turns into allegories and metaphors to be “correctly interpreted” by those who “know”. Manipulation of the willful ignorant by the deceitful power and fear mongers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Belief what you want, just don’t call it science.[/FONT]

 

[metis]

* "In his book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, molecular biologist Michael Denton states: “Even the simplest of all living systems on earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, . . .

Certainly even bacterium today are complex, but one makes a huge mistake that yesterday's bacterium were just as complex.

Regarding the genetic code in each cell, Denton states: “The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system; it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. . . .

Same as what I wrote above. But also let me add that if you were correct, then the vast majority of geneticists would agree with you and not me-- but that ain't even close to being correct.

 

[Apostlelypse]

No but now you sound like the village drunk shouting about a higher power like this is an AA meeting. I would ask your religion but I believe that is rude for one to ask. So if you don't believe in creationist side are you telling me that you don't believe the words of the bible? I'd like you to give me specific examples of the scientific examples of your higher power (other than AA meetings) that exist. When you say something is far beyond human comprehension you do realize that the stories in the bible are about men right?

Well I'll tell you the only time I get drunk is when I have too large-a-cup of the blood of Christ! Many religious people will tell you there is a story from the bible they don't believe. I'm sure you don't believe every story you've heard, but you take take the morals from the Bible, and teach yourself to become a better man. As far as higher power goes, our human senses pick up on frequencies from 30hz to around 30khz, So are you ignorant to the fact that there's things beyond these frequencies that you can't sense? Maybe you've "expanded" your mind too many times, Wook.

 

[viole]

but you take take the morals from the Bible, and teach yourself to become a better man.

I would take this as an insult.

Unless, of course, whoever takes the morals from the Bible;

- accepts slavery
- sees sufficient moral reasons to kill women and children
- is OK with stoning adulteres,rebellious children, gays, and people working onthe Sabbath
Etc, etc.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Simurgh]

Problems with dating using these methods, such as carbon-14, remain. Interested persons can use Internet search to verify this. Since this thread is entitled "Why I believe God Created Life", I think it appropriate to reiterate:..................I believe the words recorded at Psalm 139:16 are literally true:"Your eyes even saw me as an embryo; All its parts were written in your book Regarding the days when they were formed, Before any of them existed." The DNA book has all our parts written in the genome. The human genome is made up of about three billion base pairs. )

Besides using the bible for a science text, you also quote Michael Denton, a Senior Fellow at Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. yeah, using an ID dude as a credible source for scientific discourse is really fascinating. Another one of those intellectual giants who gave up on scientific inquiry in favor of the easy answers that bind faith provides.
Drawing religious conclusions when science becomes to complex to understand is just a sad comment on the individual who gives up and starts hiding behind the chimerical solutions a given religion provides. And really, quoting a book of myth and selective historical accounts that are edited for political purposes and a pseudo-scientific one from 1985 is not exactly meant to inspire confidence. Or are you running out of actual arguments that are meant to show that your ideology is on the right track, and that is why you throw numbers around as if they meant something with actual scientific value?

Religion is not to be confused with science. They are not the same, even if proponents of id and creationism pretend that they are.

 

[Apostlelypse]

"Do you really think that just because evolution may be true, it falsifies any sense of higher power/grand design, Because there's scientific evidence supporting that too."

Plenty of information about ID here.

intelligentdesign ,org/science.php

So you can read some articles, get some information, make an informed decision on what your beliefs are, or you can read into every words I write until you find a fallacy and call me out on it while you eat cheddar cheese biscuits!

I would take this as an insult.

Unless, of course, whoever takes the morals from the Bible;

- accepts slavery
- sees sufficient moral reasons to kill women and children
- is OK with stoning adulteres,rebellious children, gays, and people working onthe Sabbath
Etc, etc.

Ciao

- viole

Taking the Morals from the bible doesn't mean go out and kill people. The stories of The Bible were written in a different time when life was very extreme, so it's easy to point those out and act like religions find these things morally acceptable. That's just an athiest cop-out rebuttal. Try just reading the 10 commandments, or maybe read about the time Jesus walked out in the middle mass, against the approval of his peers,to save a dying child. You know..the stories where people went against authority to do the right thing.

 

[viole]

Taking the Morals from the bible doesn't mean go out and kill people.

May I have slaves, at least?

The stories of The Bible were written in a different time when life was very extreme, so it's easy to point those out and act like religions find these things morally acceptable.

That would make sense if you acknowledged that those stories have been written and inspired by men living in hard times.

But if you insist that that they have been inspired by God, then I would expect Him to provide a better role model.

That's just an athiest cop-out rebuttal.

A cop-out? These things are black on white on a book that is supposed to provide moral guidance, like offering ones daughters to a mob that wants to rape two angels, lol.

Try just reading the 10 commandments,

Actually, they are 9 for me. i cannot possibly covet my neighbors wife.

Incidentally, i hope you do not carry or show small crucifixes (carved images of God).

or maybe read about the time Jesus walked out in the middle mass, against the approval of his peers,to save a dying child. You know..the stories where people went against authority to do the right thing.

Like cursing fig trees in winter? Or tolerating slavery, while making a fuss because of a couple of merchants in the outer temple?

I think, his priorities were all messed up, I am afraid.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Apostlelypse]

I'm not going to read through a website when I don't quote it. It'd provide you with the line of text that supports my ideas brah!

So you're not actually going to read the scientific data that you asked for? What are you doing here then?

 

[Apostlelypse]

May I have slaves, at least?



That would make sense if you acknowledged that those stories have been written and inspired by men living in hard times.

But if you insist that that they have been inspired by God, then I would expect Him to provide a better role model.



A cop-out? These things are black on white on a book that is supposed to provide moral guidance, like offering ones daughters to a mob that wants to rape two angels, lol.



Actually, they are 9 for me. i cannot possibly covet my neighbors wife.

Incidentally, i hope you do not carry or show small crucifixes (carved images of God).


Like cursing fig trees in winter? Or tolerating slavery, while making a fuss because of a couple of merchants in the outer temple?

I think, his priorities were all messed up, I am afraid.

Ciao

- viole

Sorry if my words failed you. Don't worry Jesus is a good guy, and yes you may have slaves just not in this country!(or in heaven..unless thats what you want)

 

[Apostlelypse]

I was going to hope that you gave me the cliff notes instead of making me sift through layers upon layers of garbage like how to prepare healthy food for your children. I mean what next? How to live in your mom's basement as a virgin until your 40? C'mon man, I just want you to give us some facts on the claims you were making not make me do all your work for you. And to your comment before about biscuits, I only eat them if they're the Red Lobster Cheddar Bay kind.

So let me get this straight, You join a board asking a question, instead of taking peoples word for it you want every piece of data backed by scientific research. Instead of actually reading the research you want posters to summarize it for you. If you want to learn something you need to do the research yourself. God has all the answers, however you seem to be pretty ignorant to that. Why don't you stick to what your good at and talk to us about Red Lobster.

 

[Apostlelypse]

I didn't insult your intelligence. I called you ignorant, which has nothing to do with your overall intelligence. A less ignorant person would understand that. Love the RL story though. Reminds me of my sons Rod and Todd, They never eat the red lobster!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well I just figured you'd post something that is helpful not 8 pages of junk but if you want to hear a story about Red Lobster I'll tell you about every time I go to Red Lobster:

Everyone knows that an evening at Red Lobster is no small affair. I press my jeans, put on my finest hair product, and drench myself in a musky cologne. Hell, I may even shine up my wing tipped shoes, for I am going to Red Lobster. I strut through the door with my finest lady on my arm and throw up two fingers to the Hostess. I glide past the lobster tank with ease knowing that yet again I will not be eating a red lobster at Red Lobster (who would). I take a seat and before the waiter asks us for our drinks I request 20 cheddar bay biscuits. It's such a bold move that music stops, glasses clink, and everyone in a 5 yard radius gasps in disbelief/shock. Even my company gives me a look of concern. The waiter says " s..sir are you sure?". I don't sweat one bit and I tell that waiter to step and make with the cbb's. he comes back with three baskets filled with biscuits (7 in 2 and 6 in another). I thank the waiter. Then I go straight baller!!!! I'm pounding biszcuits left and right. Smashing them in old dudes faces, rubbing them between my ladies titties, telling the waiter to **** off. I cause a ruckus, only get cbb's, don't pay a dime, and leave with my girl plus three more.That's generally what happens every time I go to Red Lobster, I've gotten banned from 33 locations.

Don't insult my intelligence again because I don't like being that guy and this is a civil forum. You sir, are not civil.

Those are damned good biscuits. Why they are paired with such an inedible food such as lobster is beyond me.