WHY I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS GOD

[Deeje]

Not did the Jews have a concept of God having a Son in heaven who was coming down but he did.

This was part of the "sacred mystery" that was revealed only when Christ came to the earth. (Romans 16:25-26)

I don’t believe Jesus is coequal but he is divine.

He is of divine origin, there is no doubt, but he was not God. He was "with God" "in the beginning" (John 1:1)....so what "beginning" is this speaking of? God himself had no beginning, so this of necessity, must be the beginning of his creative works, where Jesus is described by the apostle John as "the beginning of God's creation". (Revelation 3:14)

 

[Colt]

This was part of the "sacred mystery" that was revealed only when Christ came to the earth. (Romans 16:25-26)



He is of divine origin, there is no doubt, but he was not God. He was "with God" "in the beginning" (John 1:1)....so what "beginning" is this speaking of? God himself had no beginning, so this of necessity, must be the beginning of his creative works, where Jesus is described by the apostle John as "the beginning of God's creation". (Revelation 3:14)

God the Son, he is the creator of this world. He was anonymous while with us for the most part. His identity became the source of a lot of speculation after he returned to heaven.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, the war in heaven is in reference to the Lucifer rebellion against the Creator Son Michael and the Universal Father. The dragon was the symbol of the devil. 9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The war in heaven is retrospective, it was terminated when Michael was anonymously on earth as "Jesus of Nazareth."

Hebrews Chapter 1 explicitly says Jesus is not an angel. Odd huh?

 

[Wrangler]

God the Son, he is the creator of this world. He was anonymous while with us for the most part. His identity became the source of a lot of speculation after he returned to heaven.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This is a sad trinitarian myth. The Word of God is not Jesus. The proper interpretation of John 1 is through Deuteronomy 18:15-18. God will raise up a Servant among the people and put His words in the man's mouth.

 

[Wrangler]

The Trinity is fixed in its eternal place, Jesus the Creator Son is a creation of the Trinity. But they are all indistinguishable unified in spirit. We can only know them as One.

Except the Bible says nothing like this at all. Indeed, the Bible says that God raised the lifeless corpse of Jesus in Acts. The trinity is not in the Bible - not the word, not the concept.

 

[Colt]

Hebrews Chapter 1 explicitly says Jesus is not an angel. Odd huh?

Michael of revelation isn’t an angel either.

 

[Wrangler]

Since Jesus is one of the Trinity, how could he be a creation of the trinity?

I've learned that trinitarians eject logic and just make up one lie after another. Of course, they do not call it deception. They call it mysticism and dualism.

It goes like this. He is in the house. True and logically, this means he is not out of the house. Trinitarians so, on contraire! He is out of the house ALSO.

To me, the most amazing thing is the invention of a 3rd 'person' out of whole cloth. God is Spirit. His Spirit is Holy. There is no 3rd person. How you know this is you do no pray TO the Spirit but FOR the Spirit.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is our Creator Son, not the second person of the Paradise Trinity.

Nonsense! Jesus has a God. Jesus God is the only God. See John 20:17 and Revelations 3.

The Bible says in Genesis 1:1 that God is the Creator. 1 Cor 8:6 says it explicitly, 'For us, there is one God, the Father.'

 

[Colt]

This is a sad trinitarian myth. The Word of God is not Jesus. The proper interpretation of John 1 is through Deuteronomy 18:15-18. God will raise up a Servant among the people and put His words in the man's mouth.

John1 says nothing about Jesus being a prophet.

 

[Wrangler]

he is the Son of God

Jesus WAS the only Son of God. We are the children of God.

 

[Wrangler]

John1 says nothing about Hesus being a prophet.

I never said it does. I said the proper interpretation of John 1 is through Deut 18:15-18. (Jesus himself said he was a prophet in other verses). Click here.

 

[Colt]

Nonsense! Jesus has a God. Jesus God is the only God. See John 20:17 and Revelations 3.

The Bible says in Genesis 1:1 that God is the Creator. 1 Cor 8:6 says it explicitly, 'For us, there is one God, the Father.'

Jesus proved his authority and divinity weather you believe it or not.

 

[Colt]

I never said it does. I said the proper interpretation of John 1 is through Deut 18:15-18. (Jesus himself said he was a prophet in other verses). Click here.

It’s your proper interpretation to justify your disbelief.

 

[Deeje]

God the Son, he is the creator of this world. He was anonymous while with us for the most part. His identity became the source of a lot of speculation after he returned to heaven.

There is no "God the Son"...there is only "the Son of God" which is what Jesus called himself.
"God the Son" is a trinitarian invention like "God the Holy Spirit". Nowhere will we find these expressions in the Bible.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

If you have never taken this scripture apart in Greek then you really have no idea what it is stating.

The polytheistic Greeks had no word for the monotheistic and nameless God of the Jews....all of their gods were called by name. Since the Jews has ceased to utter the divine name, the only way to identify this god (theos) was to add the definite article "the"...IOW he was "THE God" not just "God"....in Greek "ho theos".

"God" is what he is (a title like "Lord")....but his name tells us who he is....and God revealed his name for us as I mentioned in a previous post. If you read John 1:1 in the Greek there are two "gods" mentioned and only one of them is "THE God".
Creation came "through" him, not from him. God used his son as the agency through which his holy spirit operated to produce all that made up creation, both in heaven and on earth.

 

[firedragon]

.IOW he was "THE God" not just "God"....in Greek "ho theos".

So how do you write "God" and "god" in Greek?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I am not sure to understand what you mean with "impartian" Anyway, let me explain why we have to accept Christ.
I believe that God loves us infinitely, and He desires to lead each of us to the true life and true happiness, a condition existing only in communion with God. But God cannot tolerate evil and sin, because they are incompatible with His good and holy nature. God cannot simply forgive us if we keep sin and evil within us. A deep interior change is necessary for all of us to reach the eternal happiness; we must be sanctified and purified from all our evil and sinful desires. God has the power to change us but He wants to do that with our consent. In fact God has chosen to create man with a free will, He wants to respect our free will. If God purified us against our will, He would destroy the essence of the human being, our free conscience. Man cannot really accept to be changed by God and he cannot be in communion with God as long as even a shadow of doubt and distrust remains in his heart ( it must be stressed that such a distrust may exist even without the man is aware of it, at the unconscious level).
In order to destroy every shadow of doubt and distrust in our heart, God has chosen to give us the greatest proof of love that may exist: Christ's Passion.
However those who do not believe in God, despite Christ's Passian, are not willing to allow God to purify them and they remain in their sins and therefore they cannot go to heaven

But how much freewill do we have to accept Christ's passion if there really is just as much reason to believe in the Bible as the Quran? Of course Christians do not see it like that, Christians believe in the Bible so they find it more convincing than the Quran. But at the same time Muslims don't see it like that, they believe the Quran so they find that move convincing than the Bible. Imagine now from a nonbeliever's eyes that isn't convinced of either. What a prompt decision it is to choose to follow the teachings of the Bible than any of the other hundreds of religious teachings.

 

[Colt]

There is no "God the Son"...there is only "the Son of God" which is what Jesus called himself.
"God the Son" is a trinitarian invention like "God the Holy Spirit". Nowhere will we find these expressions in the Bible.



If you have never taken this scripture apart in Greek then you really have no idea what it is stating.

The polytheistic Greeks had no word for the monotheistic and nameless God of the Jews....all of their gods were called by name. Since the Jews has ceased to utter the divine name, the only way to identify this god (theos) was to add the definite article "the"...IOW he was "THE God" not just "God"....in Greek "ho theos".

"God" is what he is (a title like "Lord")....but his name tells us who he is....and God revealed his name for us as I mentioned in a previous post. If you read John 1:1 in the Greek there are two "gods" mentioned and only one of them is "THE God".
Creation came "through" him, not from him. God used his son as the agency through which his holy spirit operated to produce all that made up creation, both in heaven and on earth.

God the Father delegates powers and authority to subordinates. Jesus proved his power, authority and divinity when he returned from the death of his mortal body on his own volition. But even his beloved apostles doubted until they saw it with their own eyes.

 

[Deeje]

So how do you write "God" and "god" in Greek?

Good question. Look at a Greek to English Interlinear...
1 In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.

You can clearly see "ho" as "the" Logos as well as "ho theos" (the God) but the second mention of theos has no definite article.
But you do not see "the God" in the English translation....a trinitarian bias error.

We use this kind of identification even in English.....if we hear that "Brad Pitt" will be attending a dinner that we are invited to what is the first thing we would say? Not THE Brad Pitt?

 

[firedragon]

Good question. Look at a Greek to English Interlinear...
1 In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.

You can clearly see "ho" as "the" Logos as well as "ho theos" (the God) but the second mention of theos has no definite article.
But you do not see "the God" in the English translation....a trinitarian bias error.

We use this kind of identification even in English.....if we hear that "Brad Pitt" will be attending a dinner that we are invited to what is the first thing we would say? Not THE Brad Pitt?

Thats a whole different matter Deeje.

Read the comment I responded to. It has a grave error.

You simply cannot make that kind of equation that Ho Theos is "The God" and Theos is "God" because that's not the issue.

Theos without the article Ho is just meaning "Divinity", not "God". This level of mixing another language with English is not valid. I am no expert in Koine Greek, but this is absolutely basic. When a person makes this kind of commitment one should not be following an issuer so blindly but do some research.

The God, and God, is the same. Even in English. Unless of course you wish to make a distinction with a "god" with a simple g or something. Yet, this does not matter in this particular Greek because there is no capitalising affect in it.

Also, you gave a strange Greek text of John 1:1 to me here. Which manuscript says "En Arche Eimi ho logos"? I have so far never seen "eimi" there.

So I shall await to see your manuscript of the Gospel of John that has this. Unless you are referring to another verse or another book. Also, there is no "Eimi" in this verse whatsoever. Also, eimi does not mean what you have said. Eimi means I am living, or I am existing. You have just said "was" as translation to Eimi, in a verse which does not have this word.

Sorry Deeje, with all due respect, when you try to teach people a language, at least get your absolute basics right. Or please tutor me. Go ahead.

I would like to see this manuscript of the Bible that has this exact greek text you have given. I can tell you directly that since you seem to be directing at John 1:1, the greek transliteration you gave above is absolutely bogus. Someone duped you.

Peace.

 

[mmarco]

But how much freewill do we have to accept Christ's passion if there really is just as much reason to believe in the Bible as the Quran?

I strongly disagree with your statement that "there really is just as much reason to believe in the Bible as the Quran". In my first post I explained why the christian concept of divine love is unique and different from the one expressed in the other religions. There is indeed much more reason to believe in Christ than in any other religion.