Why I don't accept Christian or Muslim Faith

[dybmh]

"Congratulations on being blessed with more responsibility, but sometimes the best lessons come from experience, not knowledge. "

I agree that works sometimes but not always. Sure a person shouldn't be a "helicopter parent", but they shouldn't let their child run into a busy street either.

Eventhough you used the word "sometimes",that doesn't over-rule the condescending tone from the first part "Congratulations on being blessed".

It's a simple fact that even the most devoted free-spirit will need their freedom to be protected and enforced otherwise some tyrannt will come along and subjegate them. Lacking the laws, rules, boundries, and territories which prevent a tyrannt coming to stomp on others, then the lesson that "comes from experience" is war, conflict, death, bondage, servitude, etc of the innocent free-spirit.

Perhaps the free-spirit takes up arms and defends itself, and now it is a militant free-spirit exherting its "blessed responsibility" tyrannt.

And from this zooming out, the tyrannt and the freedom-fighter are mirror images of each other. They are both exerting their "blessed will" on the other through force.

And that is how and why law, order, rules, boundries, and territories are established. It's ultimately to protect freedom not to take it away. It IS proactive, but, it's based on the lessons learned from negative experiences.

When it comes to Judaism and Islam, the over-arching lesson is, when people believe they are gods, bad things happen. In my judgement, this is always true even in the most peaceful construct. I don't expect all or many to agree. I am comfortable and at peace with being in the extreme minority. But almost everyone agrees that rules, laws, territories and boundries are a good thing to prevent problems.

 

[SalixIncendium]

YHWH - Allah

Or what has been taught about YHWH/Allah.

 

[dybmh]

I just don't get why humans choose Satan over Allah

Well, it's complicated.

We'd need to come to an agreement on what is this thing you're calling Satan. Then we could talk about it.

 

[dybmh]

Why trust in Allah?

As you know, I am highly detail oriented individual. And I think about stuff all the time. Yes, I have this mapped out in my head in excrutiating detail. But, that's not the only way to consider it.

One of the simple reasons, and it's not perfect, is, Allah does not need anything. Allah is completely sufficient. From this idea, it can be considered, if Allah is completely sufficient, then it does not gain anything, anything at all from creating reality. It's not even entertainment for it. This is not a game-show or reality TV for it. Allah is completely sufficent.

If so, then the fact that reality exists and is being created by it must be for OUR benefit. There is no other reason. There can be no other motive. And that is a very good reason to trust.

Like I said, this isn't perfect, there are holes, and reasonable important questions that can be asked. It's not proof of anything. But if one starts with a specific god concept, it can be trusted.

 

[Link]

"He, Allah, is One. Allah is He on Whom all depend. He begets not, nor is He begotten; And none is like Him".

I see this as saying Allah is uncreated, and of/in All things.

So, to me, this equates Allah with Magick in my view. The power that permeates the Universe.

I think God channels his power through his chosen Agents. Jinn also have powers and people can seek their help. There is two perspectives. From one it's true that all power is from God. From another, there is good energy and bad energy.

Seeking the help of Imam of time and his holy spirit is seeking help of God. While seeking power from wrong sources can lead the soul into wrong places and falsehood.

 

[Link]

Why trust in Allah?

Because he is trustworthy and his light is holy and can be seen as trustworthy.

 

[F1fan]

I get why Satan sees Allah (swt) as a Jinn that possesses the Prophets (a).

I just don't get why humans choose Satan over Allah (swt) and deny the Living Being that created all things and how they can equate others with the ultimate one.

I don't believe this God, or Satan, exists. But if we look at this symbolically where God is goodness and Satan is the darker side of being human, I suggest those who are on a darker path don't realize it. They think they are good and just don't know any better. The dogmas of the various religions, Christianity and Islam. does little to set believers on a good path. These dogmas allow anyone to believe and act any way they please and think they are ding God's will. Suicide bombers think they are righteous as they kill innocent people. The advantage of being an athesit is not being confused by dogmas, and having to be the self's own moral arbiter.

Allah (swt) is with all things. I suppose Jinn occupy space of a lot of minds of people and that some people worship them ignorantly and equate them with God when in fact they are enemies to the soul of that person and lead them astray . They are no where on par with Allah (swt), in fact, they are not even on par with the exalted souls of Prophets (a) and close Angels (a).

Soothsaying religions are old and ancient. So is Allah (swt) and the truth his representatives come with.

See, this is the sort of drama I'm so happy to avoid being an atheist.

 

[F1fan]

Because he is trustworthy and his light is holy and can be seen as trustworthy.

And that is why suicide bombers feel confident they are doing Allah's will. They trust that they believe Allah is guiding them to do. Do you agree they are following Allah as they kill innocent people?

 

[wellwisher]

I was listening to American talk radio, the other morning, while driving to do an errand. A guest on the show, had his own radio show in London. He was saying how English radio now has thought police; Liberal religion. They will go after your sponsors or take away your license if you depart from their PC script. One is not allowed to have one opinion on any radio show unless you have other people on with countering opinions. If there is not enough of a countering point of view, the thought police will visit you. Liberal have repressive religion where words are their gods.

The two radio show hosts were also talking about the conflict in Israel. The interesting point the guest made, connected to the religious conflict between Jews and Arabs, was how both Israel and Arabs have their own state religions. He said only Christian countries separate church from the state, and allow freedom of religion. The Church of England was the State Church, but now it allows immigrant to maintain their religions.

How can any religion, like Christianity, allow freedom of religion and also be repressive? Wouldn't being more like the Liberal thought police religions; use the power of the state, allow you to become a better oppressor?

 

[JustGeorge]

As you know, I am highly detail oriented individual. And I think about stuff all the time. Yes, I have this mapped out in my head in excrutiating detail. But, that's not the only way to consider it.

One of the simple reasons, and it's not perfect, is, Allah does not need anything. Allah is completely sufficient. From this idea, it can be considered, if Allah is completely sufficient, then it does not gain anything, anything at all from creating reality. It's not even entertainment for it. This is not a game-show or reality TV for it. Allah is completely sufficent.

If so, then the fact that reality exists and is being created by it must be for OUR benefit. There is no other reason. There can be no other motive. And that is a very good reason to trust.

Like I said, this isn't perfect, there are holes, and reasonable important questions that can be asked. It's not proof of anything. But if one starts with a specific god concept, it can be trusted.

How do we know he doesn't need anything? There may be needs there, we are just not capable of understanding them.

Also, this takes the standpoint that Allah created all of this. What if he didn't?

 

[dybmh]

How do we know he doesn't need anything? There may be needs there, we are just not capable of understanding them.

Also, this takes the standpoint that Allah created all of this. What if he didn't?

Those are the holes and important questions I was talking about.

Like I said, this isn't perfect, there are holes, and reasonable important questions that can be asked

The next step in this would be, I think, to talk about prophecy and how one knows that the quran is true. That's not my forte. I look at it from a logical perspective which skips scripture, but takes forever to explain.

But skipping both of those, there's a different route, which I think is more common and more accessible, and I think it is easily understood. You already wrote a tiny bit about it: "being called". The answers to your questions don't have to be intellectual. They don't need to be "knowing". Some people are limited to only "knowing", they are not satisfied without it, but most people trust their own "gut". I would not consider this an intellectual "knowing", they instead would answer your questions as a feeling. They feel that Allah is a sufficient and that Allah created all of it. Personally I would not call this a "gut" feeling I would place it in the "heart". ( Although I do consider the gut to be the "bottom-of-the-heart" ).

So when you mentioned being "called" to YHVH or Allah, to me, that means having an emotive feeling that those 2 god concepts are true. It's a mix of several things, some of it might be wishful thinking, I cannot deny it. But, it is what it is.

 

[JustGeorge]

Those are the holes and important questions I was talking about.



The next step in this would be, I think, to talk about prophecy and how one knows that the quran is true. That's not my forte. I look at it from a logical perspective which skips scripture, but takes forever to explain.

But skipping both of those, there's a different route, which I think is more common and more accessible, and I think it is easily understood. You already wrote a tiny bit about it: "being called". The answers to your questions don't have to be intellectual. They don't need to be "knowing". Some people are limited to only "knowing", they are not satisfied without it, but most people trust their own "gut". I would not consider this an intellectual "knowing", they instead would answer your questions as a feeling. They feel that Allah is a sufficient and that Allah created all of it. Personally I would not call this a "gut" feeling I would place it in the "heart". ( Although I do consider the gut to be the "bottom-of-the-heart" ).

Yes, I understand. I would also place that in the heart...

I notice sometimes people's 'hearts' conflict. I don't find that to be a problem, though some do. A line I read once basically stated, "the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite Divine", and that had a profound affect on me. Coupled with Krishna's stating in the Gita that the Divine will come in whatever form(or forms) a person needs, this has formed much of my worldview.

So when you mentioned being "called" to YHVH or Allah, to me, that means having an emotive feeling that those 2 god concepts are true. It's a mix of several things, some of it might be wishful thinking, I cannot deny it. But, it is what it is.

I believe that deity exists. I don't put him in the same place a person following one of the faiths surrounding him would, though. I don't believe he calls all people(though some would strongly disagree with me).

 

[dybmh]

Coupled with Krishna's stating in the Gita that the Divine will come in whatever form(or forms) a person needs, this has formed much of my worldview.

I agree with this very much. It strongly resonates with me. I was having a conversation, several months ago offline. The discussion was with a strict unitarian christian. My intention was to explain what I consider a moderate non-judgmental approach to the trinity. One of my arguments ( maybe I've mentioned it here, maybe not? ) If God revealed itself to me as a toaster, should I deny it? Could I deny it?

It sounds silly, and I'm not trying to equate anyone's beliefs in the divine with a toaster or reduce it to that level. The point I was trying to make is, at certain point, it's not my choice. If there is a God, (capital G), then, its the one choosing how to reveal itself to me. If that's a trinity, so be it.

Naturally, it's not that simple, especially if one person is trying to persuade the other. But my point is about acceptance and non-judgement, not about what to do if someone insists on projecting their own experiences and beliefs on others. Then it's different, and it makes sense to me to adopt a less accepting and more judgemental posture.

 

[rocala]

Over the years I have come up with numerous reasons to not follow those faiths. My first reason has always been the clincher - no way could I ever accept the virgin birth.

 

[Jimmy]

Nope, I agree that's more or less my reasoning too. That, and those are some pretty wack Gods yo.

But I couldn't figure out how else to flip the "reasons I don't agree with Baha'i faith" thread.

All gods from any book or religion is wack imo haha

 

[JustGeorge]

I agree with this very much. It strongly resonates with me. I was having a conversation, several months ago offline. The discussion was with a strict unitarian christian. My intention was to explain what I consider a moderate non-judgmental approach to the trinity. One of my arguments ( maybe I've mentioned it here, maybe not? ) If God revealed itself to me as a toaster, should I deny it? Could I deny it?

It sounds silly, and I'm not trying to equate anyone's beliefs in the divine with a toaster or reduce it to that level. The point I was trying to make is, at certain point, it's not my choice. If there is a God, (capital G), then, its the one choosing how to reveal itself to me. If that's a trinity, so be it.

Naturally, it's not that simple, especially if one person is trying to persuade the other. But my point is about acceptance and non-judgement, not about what to do if someone insists on projecting their own experiences and beliefs on others. Then it's different, and it makes sense to me to adopt a less accepting and more judgemental posture.

It makes good sense to me. You really don't get to choose!

I was raised Christian, but it didn't stick. I wanted it to stick. I wanted to be a Christian... but my interest always waned. I had a deep religious drive, but, my want for the religion I was raised with always... fell to the side. I couldn't sustain it. I met a Wiccan(the first time I'd ever heard of polytheism), and I was respectfully interested in her religion. On the surface. Internally, I was smitten with it(especially with the polytheistic aspects), and ended up practicing in secret for awhile, just because it was hard for me to admit that I'd finally found what fit into my heart. (In this sense I mean polytheistic faith, not Wicca specifically, though I do have a great love and respect for it.)

We were made to be what we are... and the Divine understands, in my opinion. And will come as he/she/they feel is best for us.

 

[Alien826]

If so, then the fact that reality exists and is being created by it must be for OUR benefit. There is no other reason. There can be no other motive. And that is a very good reason to trust.

Some time ago, I felt that I had in some way made contact with "god". Long story, not relevant to what I'm about to say. As a natural skeptic, I still only accepted as "fact" what I could personally experience. So what to do? I had two data of evidence, "something" that seemed to be prepared to communicate with me, and that it seemed to be helping me. So I asked this "thing" to reveal more to me, one step at a time. The rest is part of the "long story".

One thing I did assume was that the being was essentially benevolent. Why? Not from any logic or evidence outside my own experience, but simply because the alternative, an evil "god", was not something I wanted to contemplate.

 

[Link]

In the Quran and ahadith, God is said to be there in the manifest horizon. The Quran also talks about the lanterns therein, and that God makes it an adornment in the vision of the onlookers.

Then it's just about looking and gazing spiritually. There is no comparison between light and darkness, and as such those who direct themselves to the darkness do so out injustice to themselves and towards others and towards God. They of course cannot harm God but they do harm themselves.

 

[dybmh]

Some time ago, I felt that I had in some way made contact with "god". Long story, not relevant to what I'm about to say. As a natural skeptic, I still only accepted as "fact" what I could personally experience. So what to do? I had two data of evidence, "something" that seemed to be prepared to communicate with me, and that it seemed to be helping me. So I asked this "thing" to reveal more to me, one step at a time. The rest is part of the "long story".

One thing I did assume was that the being was essentially benevolent. Why? Not from any logic or evidence outside my own experience, but simply because the alternative, an evil "god", was not something I wanted to contemplate.

yes, i remember you mentioning this before. the point you're making is not lost on me. I mentioned that in a later post. There's aspects of your story that are addressed in Judaism, but, I don't think there's good reason to share those.

So when you mentioned being "called" to YHVH or Allah, to me, that means having an emotive feeling that those 2 god concepts are true. It's a mix of several things, some of it might be wishful thinking, I cannot deny it. But, it is what it is.

 

[The Hammer]

All gods from any book or religion is wack imo haha

I'm glad you feel that way.