metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm glad you escaped.
I actually didn't, so I've been "forced" to eat falafel a lot. :drool:
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Why I think there is one right religion
- Thread starter Sabour
- Start date
I actually didn't, so I've been "forced" to eat falafel a lot. :drool:
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
I kinda figured that might be the case.
You mean about how many American men have girlfriends? I'm sorry but I'd have no idea about that. None of my married friends have girlfriends... or at least not openly.
It's certainly not common, if that's what you are asking.
cocokorina
Member
so islamic solution to fullfill a man's lust is to allow him to have sex with 4 women at the same time? islam makes adultery halal for men by simply keeping multiple wives!! what a great religion for men :shout
then why cant women have multiple husband? what if a woman wants to have a boyfriend after being married? is it better to have boyfriend or better to have more husband?
what if my husband cannot have children? can i have a second husband and
keep my first husband too?
what if my husband gets in an accident or has an illness where he cannot have sex. should i get another husband and keep him too?
how do you know they were not successful? i gave you example of khadija. the fact that khadija herself proposed to mohammad showed how much women used to be in power back then. mohammads own mother Aminah, was a widow who lived independently.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
ROFLalafel...
For me "must follow" sets alarm bells ringing,we are talking about a human being who proclaims to be the recipient of a devine message with no proof of it just like the thousands of prophets that came before him,imo it comes down to how much faith you put in that testament.
You mention sahih Hadith but if the Qur'an answers all questions why do you need them?.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It apparently is high in your country as well, - just hidden!
According to International watch groups like Amnesty International, etc. - many girls are raped - and afraid to come forward because of Sharia Law which blames them.
Also apparently many men are having sex affairs with other men - since women are kept separate.
Many men are crossing borders to get their sex (and alcohol) in countries with different laws.
And last are the hypocrites - who get "temporary marriage certificates" so they can get around the law - and sc**w prostitutes, taking home HIV/AIDS, Gonorrhea, and the like, to their wives and families.
Men are pretty much the same around the world.
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
Nope.
The reason I mentioned this "Let us look about what is happening in the western countries. All married man are having girlfriends." is to show you that the punishment also forbids Muslim men to do that. I didn't say that this is a reason to have four wives.
And what you quoted was a small part of what I answered. You quoted the part in least relation to the subject.
The identity of the child becomes ambiguous.
When the wife goes through pregnancy and feeding the child in its early years, the real husband will find comfort and content. But will the other husbands be patient for such a long period of time?
Women find they cannot sometimes fulfill the sexual desires of their husband, due to monthly periods, pregnancies and so on. If this is the case in a monogamous relationship, then what about in a polyandrous relationship?
As for the physiological damage, science shows us that when a woman has sex with a man, a chemical called oxytocin is released into her system. Oxytocin is a neuro-peptide most commonly associated with pregnancy and breast-feeding. It seems to act as a human superglue and helps a woman bond with her infant. This chemical also helps a woman bond with her lover during sex. New scientific studies, however, suggest that if a woman has multiple sexual partners, this will lower her levels of oxytocin which in turn can inhibit her ability to bond to her husband. According to an article by Drs. John Diggs and Eric Keroack, People who have misused their sexual faculty and become bonded to multiple persons will diminish the power of oxytocin to maintain a permanent bond with an individual. [You can read the entire article at Library | Abstinence Clearinghouse ]
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Well if you follow a religion, in most cases you will believe its yours that is the true religion, well that's what I have seen, and also in my own religion of 17 years.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
The proof is there to test it. It is the Quraan. His "claim" is that it is the word of God.
So it is either the word of "God" or a production of some man who was illiterate who lived in the seventh century.
And about the previous prophets they are real prophets of Islam.
However, the stories in the bible are not 100 % true.
For example I remember hearing that it is said that prophet Noah peace be upon him was an alcoholic and he wanted to kill his daughter. Right?
In addition, the prophet Jesus peace be upon him never claimed divinity, trinity, on being a "begotten" son.
All the prophet's message was to worship God and only God.
Quraan does answer all the major questions you have. Quraan also is a system of life. This system was best adapted by the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Hadith also tells us how to conduct certain things that we are supposed to do as muslims, like how to pray, when.
It also has some prophecies about the days.
Why would we take by these? Because it is mentioned in the Quraan in several places that we must follow the teaching of the prophet and that he doesn't speak about things from his desires.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
right, but if 149 persons were wrong about that, it doesn't mean that I am wrong too.
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psychoslice
Veteran Member
There's a good chance you are wrong, but who knows and who really cares, as long as you are happy where you are.
cocokorina
Member
who said all men in the western countries are having girlfriends on the side?? some are but not everyone. Good and bad people exist in every society. look at how many muslims beat their wives and look how how badly so many muslim women are treated.
islam conveniently allows men to have sex with multiple partners yet doesnt allow the same for women. thats not sexist?
in this day and age, DNA test can determine paternity. so now can women have multiple husbands?
but a wife is supposed to be patient and let her husband have sex with 3 other women?
btw, polyandry (1woman marrying multiple men) has happened in some cultures in the past and still happens in some parts of Tibet even today.
are you serious? so a womans purpose is to fulfill a man?
while i have periods, that means my husband should be allowed to sleep with another woman? i dont undrestand why islam tries so hard to fulfill a man's sexual desire but ignore womens desires. sometimes women can also desire multiple men but islam doesn't allow that.
but the problem will be solved if both men and women can have multiple partners. this ******** that you posted makes no sense.
there are so many instances where a woman is not fullfilled by 1 man either, so should she have more than 1 husband to keep her satisfied? we have DNA test which can prove paternity and since Islam is a religion for all times, why didn't it allow this?
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Bird123
Well-Known Member
By returning our actions back to us in time, God has eliminated the need for rules or religions. We discover the real answers by LIVING THEM. Mankind created all religions.
Once one understands all sides, intelligence always makes the right choices. This is something that can never be totally discover by reading any book.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Hello
Exactly, but the Quraan is still in our hands to test it.
I have to disagree with you on this one because of the Arabic language.
Well I don't exactly know what the term proselytizing is, but in my religion I am responsible for telling the true message of Islam. I don't know if that answers your question.
Concerning the prophets after Muhammad, Quraan says that Muhammad is the last prophet, and that is the reason that Quraan is the revelation that Allah guarded against change.
I was explaining the Islamic point of view.
In Islam it is not just about faith it is about faith and reasoning.
The prophets were meant for that age only, except for the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. That is why the miracles of the rest of the prophets you can't see today, they were meant for people at that time, while the miracle of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him which is the Quraan is still here to test.
The God who created everything. The one , the Eternal Refuge.
Hadith explains some of the verses that MAY be misunderstood. It also shows us how the prophet adapted the Quraan in his everyday life so that we have an example to follow.
The first thing I want to say about the subject is that the condition in the seventh century where very different especially for the Arabs.
At that time, people used to marry at a very young age.
For example, my mom married when she was 18. By the way, she married late, her generation use to marry at the age of 15. That was a normal thing to do in our century. In the seventeenth century, the minimum legal age to marry was 12, in England. Am I right ? That is what I read in an article.
Anyways, in the Arab times at the seventh century, marriages for the daughters were considered a way to make relations between families stronger, and that is for business reasons. They used to choose who will their daughters marry since she is first born. But that was not the case with the prophet.
Just let me say, that in Islam, cultural value are okay to follow if they don't stand against the message of Islam. The condition of Islam is that the girl has to reach the age of puberty.
I hope you take time to watch this video, it will better answer your question
[youtube]iY_D4UbtBoA[/youtube]
Prophet Muhammad Marriage to Aisha - Yusuf Estes - YouTube
Like what?
I am not sure I think 9 or 11.
The reason for that is that at that time, there were no limits for the number of wives one can have.
As we know Quraan was revealed in stages. The prophet had this number of wives before the verse concerning the number of wives was revealed.
So all the muslims who had more than 4 wives kept only 4. Except for the prophet. This is because the wives of the prophets were the mothers of the believers.
33:52 Hereafter women are not lawful to you, neither for you to take other spouses in exchange for them, even if their fairness (may) make you admire them except what your right hand possesses; and Allah has (always) been Ever-Watchful over everything.
This is for the prophet to tell him that he can't have anymore wives. But why would he still have 11 ?
33:53 O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.
So if he divorced and keeps only 4, the wives will remain widowed, because they were the wives of the prophets. And they were the mothers of the believers.
Friend I will out of the forums for a long time I think. But please feel free to send me a message whenever you want. I will receive a notification and answer you if you are interested.
Also, on you tube, there is a series for Yusuf estes called lifting the fog. I think it answers many questions like this, because there are a lot of questions directed towards Islam.
I hope to hear from you again.
Exactly, but the Quraan is still in our hands to test it.
I have to disagree with you on this one because of the Arabic language.
Well I don't exactly know what the term proselytizing is, but in my religion I am responsible for telling the true message of Islam. I don't know if that answers your question.
Concerning the prophets after Muhammad, Quraan says that Muhammad is the last prophet, and that is the reason that Quraan is the revelation that Allah guarded against change.
I was explaining the Islamic point of view.
In Islam it is not just about faith it is about faith and reasoning.
The prophets were meant for that age only, except for the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. That is why the miracles of the rest of the prophets you can't see today, they were meant for people at that time, while the miracle of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him which is the Quraan is still here to test.
The God who created everything. The one , the Eternal Refuge.
Hadith explains some of the verses that MAY be misunderstood. It also shows us how the prophet adapted the Quraan in his everyday life so that we have an example to follow.
The first thing I want to say about the subject is that the condition in the seventh century where very different especially for the Arabs.
At that time, people used to marry at a very young age.
For example, my mom married when she was 18. By the way, she married late, her generation use to marry at the age of 15. That was a normal thing to do in our century. In the seventeenth century, the minimum legal age to marry was 12, in England. Am I right ? That is what I read in an article.
Anyways, in the Arab times at the seventh century, marriages for the daughters were considered a way to make relations between families stronger, and that is for business reasons. They used to choose who will their daughters marry since she is first born. But that was not the case with the prophet.
Just let me say, that in Islam, cultural value are okay to follow if they don't stand against the message of Islam. The condition of Islam is that the girl has to reach the age of puberty.
I hope you take time to watch this video, it will better answer your question
[youtube]iY_D4UbtBoA[/youtube]
Prophet Muhammad Marriage to Aisha - Yusuf Estes - YouTube
Like what?
I am not sure I think 9 or 11.
The reason for that is that at that time, there were no limits for the number of wives one can have.
As we know Quraan was revealed in stages. The prophet had this number of wives before the verse concerning the number of wives was revealed.
So all the muslims who had more than 4 wives kept only 4. Except for the prophet. This is because the wives of the prophets were the mothers of the believers.
33:52 Hereafter women are not lawful to you, neither for you to take other spouses in exchange for them, even if their fairness (may) make you admire them except what your right hand possesses; and Allah has (always) been Ever-Watchful over everything.
This is for the prophet to tell him that he can't have anymore wives. But why would he still have 11 ?
33:53 O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.
So if he divorced and keeps only 4, the wives will remain widowed, because they were the wives of the prophets. And they were the mothers of the believers.
Friend I will out of the forums for a long time I think. But please feel free to send me a message whenever you want. I will receive a notification and answer you if you are interested.
Also, on you tube, there is a series for Yusuf estes called lifting the fog. I think it answers many questions like this, because there are a lot of questions directed towards Islam.
I hope to hear from you again.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Sister I think what is common in all your answers is that you are choosing to focus on certain points and leave the others, you are not taking the thing as a whole.
I hope you watch this video from a neutral point of view.
[youtube]amnAkOgw6uQ[/youtube]
Women's Rights in Islam - Subjugation or Liberation by Shaykh Yusuf Estes - YouTube
Hope this video helps.
I will be out of the forums. I hope you the best and I hope you take time to reconsider what you are doing.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
That "except what your right hand possesses," meant they could continue to rape the slaves that they "owned/right hand possessed."
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
LOL! You are also obviously "choosing to focus on certain points and leave the others," by not addressing her logical points and questions.
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This is how I see Islam,it is static,the poorest parts of the world where theres a lack of education or food they promote having more children to be born into misery and worse,sexist where a Woman can't be on a level with Men and brutal punishments for being Human, IE Apostacy and Adultery and very confused,apparently Muhammed was asked about Islam and he said
"The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “My community will experience everything that the Children of Israel had experienced, following in their footsteps exactly, so much so that if one of their number had approached his mother publicly for sex, one of my community will do the same. The Children of Israel divided into 72 sects. My community will divide into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire save one.”
The people asked him: “And which one will that be
He replied: “The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.”
Is the one sect yours and would you be happy thinking the other 72 will be in hellfire?.
Where can we see this sect in action where they are on same path as Muhammed and his companions?.
The 7th century in Europe was a hard place,there was slavery cruelty and brutal punishment and child marriage,the Catholic Church and Islam are peas from the same pod in this respect IMO and failed to leave the 7th century behind.
Finally,any religion that professes to be right shouldn't have to say so ,again just my opinion.
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
I think you are describing the state of "muslims" and not Islam.
"muslims" doesn't mean that they are people who are following Islam. They are people who are born to a "muslim family".
If you mean static that it doesn't change than yes because it is the Word of God. And a religion that is suitable for any time and place.
If you meant that we should follow eveything done blindly then no it is not. Because Islam is a complete system of living, what we are doing here is taking some parts and discuss it. It doesn't really work that way. As I said Islam is a complete system of life and there is a balance. I think this idea would be more understood in the video I will introduce. But let me give you an example, the general rule of Islam that it is fair to everyone. That are nice words, but putting them into practice is not that easy, there are many things to consider.
Yep it is. Sadly we are living in a place when everyone forgot about Islam, they worship money, positions, power and everyone is trying to get out of this life what he can no matter what the cost. We are very far away from Islam. I think we deserve what we are in.
But still I think being poor is not a way to measure things.
Because some families can't afford giving education to their children.
Well this is because of the wrong way they think.
Some think that having more children will solve their problems because there will be a larger workforce and a larger income.
Anyways I think what we are measuring are cultural values. Islam doesn't teach that. I've always had the problem of evaluating Islam according to what Muslims do.
I am not sure what you meant by that?
[youtube]gTLthgMkqPU[/youtube]
Capital Punishments in Islam - Misconceptions - Yusuf Estes.Part 16. - YouTube
[youtube]4tY7oXVO9x4[/youtube]
Punishments in Islam - Misconceptions - Yusuf Estes.Part 15. - YouTube
The first video touches on the points you've mentioned. The second video also explains some concepts further.
Yeah I am familiar with that hadith and asked about it too.
We have to match this hadith to what we already know about people getting attached and love this world and all things that are materiel and forgetting about Allah.
This hadith is a prophecy, note that at the time muslims were all as one. They were more than brothers.
Following their footsteps exactly mean that we will disobey Allah in every way they did.
Look I don't give to much attention on lables, like sunni, shia or whatsoever. Because these labels don't mean much to me. Islam means Surrender - Submission - Obedience - Sincerity - Peace. This is Islam. I don't care about labels. Even a "christian" that takes up the bible and say well that doesn't make sense to me and says I will worship God only maybe a better muslim than he muslim himself. The only difference is that he wasn't presented with the message of Islam and Allah won't judge him based on the fact that he wasn't presented to it. My point is that in the hadith, I don't take a sect as being Sunni, shia, or whatever. Because when the prophet was asked who is the sect, he didn't answer with a certain label. His answer was general. He said "The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.”
This is easier than you think. The hadith doesn't say that there is that you have to belong to a certain sect. Although what one would practice may be the closest to a certain sect, but this is not the case.
The difference of sects is not caused by confusion of the right and wrong. It is caused by the fact that some sects choose what to adapt from Islam and what not to according to their desires. So what you will have is a mini "Islam" which have no relation of Islam because as you know anything "Good" can be made "bad" if it wasn't taken as a whole. You can easily make anything say whatever you want if you do this.
So people must follow the Quraan and the Hadith and take by reasons and explanations and not blindly follow what their sects they. And believe me things would be very obvious if you know that Islam is just to everyone. Besides when one worhips Allah from his heart, Allah would guide him. That is for sure.
So in Islam, right from wrong is not that hard to find out if one was true.
And I am not saying this to my religion look nice. But all the non muslims who come to Islam understand the message better than most of the born muslims. This is because they know the true value of Islam and are more true in their approach than most of us.
The gentleman of whom I am putting the videos hated Islam and muslims. Now he knows about Islam more than 99 % of the born muslims know.
If you want to hear his full story here is a link
[youtube]vOBTnVosN7A[/youtube]
‫
And about slavery I can put my input on the subject and my explanation, but I found this more interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9VB3YUNFuA
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