Why I'm Not A "Feminist"

[work in progress]

No, that's not accurate. Women rape men. My husband's childhood friend, for example, was raped by a female teacher. In cases like this, though, there is tremendous pressure on the victim to claim it was an awesome, incredibly sexy experience. There is a lot of back patting, envy and congratulations from the victim's male peers. Of course it isn't OK, and being sexually assaulted is not at all pleasant regardless of the gender of the victim and the attacker. But God forbid victims of female on male sexual assault confess this to their peers, for fear of being labeled as a homosexual.

I suppose it is possible, but how common is the phenomena of female sexual assault of males? When it comes to the phenomena of rape and aggravated sexual violence in war, I doubt there is even one example of men being sexually violated by female soldiers, guerillas etc.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I suppose it is possible, but how common is the phenomena of female sexual assault of males? When it comes to the phenomena of rape and aggravated sexual violence in war, I doubt there is even one example of men being sexually violated by female soldiers, guerillas etc.

Sure. Right. Whatever you say.

Spoiler: Violent image

 

[freethinker44]

I suppose it is possible, but how common is the phenomena of female sexual assault of males? When it comes to the phenomena of rape and aggravated sexual violence in war, I doubt there is even one example of men being sexually violated by female soldiers, guerillas etc.

Does it matter? I'm pretty sure it's still a horrible crime regardless of how common it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Stuff your phony outrage!
You opened with the usual broad-brush strokes and sweeping generalizations you make on every topic I've seen, and enough straw men to burn down a forest, in your opening condemnation of feminism. And I didn't even address you directly - you took offense to my post condemning the insidious nature and strategy of the so called "men's rights movement."
Rightwingers attack unions and the principle of collective bargaining through fake concern for the individual worker's rights; racists attack affirmative action programs and principles using a similar fake concern that visible minorities are being harmed by being considered inferior graduates because of race etc., etc., we've seen this strategy before, and the template can be applied to every issue where conservatives want to attack groups that don't share their interests!
On the "they should know better and dress appropriately" theme:
#29
and
#115
Now; when it comes to "reading comprehension," you're the one who doesn't bother reading, otherwise you would have noticed that I, and virtually everyone who is concerned about sexual assault and public safety issues acknowledges the need to help women and girls learn how to protect themselves - a little off-topic, does your concern for female safety include helping teach martial arts skills to women who are interested in learning principles of self-defense? I don't toot my horn on this topic, since I am an amateur who is somewhat proficient, and have learned most of my own skills from real experts. But, there are some (though a distinct minority) of women who are capable and interested in learning some level of self-defense skills. Most just want to learn a few quick-release moves, while some...who are willing and able to use them...want to learn potentially lethal strikes and grips that would catch an attacker by surprise. A few women that I have known, who began asking me for a few tips and a little advice, have become very serious about martial arts and are way ahead of me today!
Now, the point I am getting to should be becoming clear now: not every female is willing or capable of becoming a warrior! Some are...and are fearless when they go out in public, in any situation...just like most men. But a lot of women don't feel comfortable going down this road and just want a safer, saner world to live in! And that is the kind of world WE ALL have a responsibility to maintain...or restore if it has become broken because of increasing violence and worse - increasing tacit acceptance of rape culture...and that's where we get back to the:"she wouldn't have been raped if she wasn't dressed like a ****."

I didn't get past your first sentence, but I'm certain the appropriate response is.....
Woof!

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I suppose it is possible, but how common is the phenomena of female sexual assault of males? When it comes to the phenomena of rape and aggravated sexual violence in war, I doubt there is even one example of men being sexually violated by female soldiers, guerillas etc.

27-Year-Old Female Teacher Arrested For Raping 14-Year-Old Student: Gothamist

Excuse you.

 

[oldbadger]

..............................I, and virtually everyone who is concerned about sexual assault and public safety issues acknowledges the need to help women and girls learn how to protect themselves -..................................

People. People. Virtually every one............ acknowledges the need to help people protect themselves............

 

[oldbadger]

I didn't get past your first sentence, but I'm certain the appropriate response is.....
Woof!

Revolting! I'm ashamed of you.......
Have I not managed to teach you anything?

The appropriate response is TLDR



EDIT: OK,..... you can Woof woof afterwards....

 

[oldbadger]

Stuff your phony outrage!

Me? I know nothing, but you might try much smaller posts with much more sense..... possibly?

 

[Revoltingest]

Revolting! I'm ashamed of you.......
Have I not managed to teach you anything?

The appropriate response is TLDR



EDIT: OK,..... you can Woof woof afterwards....

We must each be true to our own style.
"Woof" is a quote with deep meaning.
It was a comment made in the TV show "Twin Peaks" by the brilliant FBI agent Albert Rosenfeld to local
yokel Sheriff Harry S Truman. Albert responded with sophistication equal to Harry's level of discourse.
This is the first time I've ever explained the quote I use when addressing abusive posters when further
conversation would be unproductive.
Notice that you & I can disagree, yet still be civil & mirthful? Some posters could learn from you.

 

[Bunyip]

I suppose it is possible, but how common is the phenomena of female sexual assault of males? When it comes to the phenomena of rape and aggravated sexual violence in war, I doubt there is even one example of men being sexually violated by female soldiers, guerillas etc.

You are forgetting Abu Graib, Female US soldiers routinely used violent sexual assault against male detainees.

Using female soldiers to humiliate, and sexually degrade Moslem detainees is sadly a common practice.

 

[Revoltingest]

==== Non-moderator caution ====
This is a green forum.

For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored green, non-members of that area
may make respectful posts that comply with the tenets and spirit of that area.
This includes questions, as well as knowledgeable comments.

Let's all strongly disagree while remaining civil.

 

[Gehennaite]

I agree 100% with the OP. The men's movement doesn't interest me either.

 

[work in progress]

Sure. Right. Whatever you say.

Spoiler: Violent image

Abu Ghraib was a military prison. I was speaking specifically of the theater of war. The limited investigation done afterwards to sweep the Abu Ghraib scandal under the rug, revealed that her commanding officer (and father of her baby) Charles Graner, was selected for Abu Ghraib because of his job as a prison guard, prior to joining the Army. Makes you wonder what goes on in America's prisons! Graner claimed that he was given orders to be "creative" in finding ways to degrade and humiliate Iraqi prisoners....and Lyndie England was following his orders.

Whatever you call it, it is not soldiers or guerilla fighters raiding villages - using rape as a war tactic. That, specifically is the kind of warfare I was talking about that is strictly a male pastime that was rarely, if ever talked about in past wars.

 

[work in progress]

==== Non-moderator caution ====
This is a green forum.

For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored green, non-members of that area
may make respectful posts that comply with the tenets and spirit of that area.
This includes questions, as well as knowledgeable comments.

Let's all strongly disagree while remaining civil.

So, what is the spirit and what are the tenets of an area with a thread condemning feminism?

 

[Flankerl]

As a personal example: when I was about 9, I discovered Sailor Moon, and became an instant fan. Not because of scantily-clad girls and the occasional panty-shot, but because I relate to those characters on a deeply personal level. IOW, I didn't want to bang them, I wanted to be them. But I had to pretend I hated the show while on the schoolyard, because of the harassment I was afraid of getting (and absolutely would have gotten).

And rightfully so. :yes:
You want empowerment? Cutey Honey. Though she/it is technically not female.

I see a similar situation today in the Brony community(for those who don't know, a Brony is an adult male who is a fan of the new My Little Pony... no, while I think it's a quality show, in fact one of a few diamonds in a sea of festering garbage that is US television, I'm not a Brony myself): a lot of the time, they're stressing that they should be able to enjoy a show primarily marketed and designed for little girls without fear.

Why yes of course Bronies are about equality of men and not fapping to small cartoon ponies...

FWIW: The first two seasons of MLP were better than Sailor Moon ever was.

about beating up Anita Sarkeesian, who chose to challenge the casual sexism in games, is proof of that IMO. (Though the game was removed.)

The problem with this woman is that she has absolutely no clue about Videogames at all and is incredibly fake.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, what is the spirit and what are the tenets of an area with a thread condemning feminism?

I don't condemn feminism. On the contrary, I've regularly stated my support for it ing general & in specific areas. But feminism has 2 main components, the philosophy & the culture. Regarding the former, I fit in comfortably in the version which leans libertarian, eg, porn positive, pro-gender equity. But the feminist culture is not for me for the reasons I've given.

 

[work in progress]

I don't condemn feminism. On the contrary, I've regularly stated my support for it ing general & in specific areas. But feminism has 2 main components, the philosophy & the culture. Regarding the former, I fit in comfortably in the version which leans libertarian, eg, porn positive, pro-gender equity. But the feminist culture is not for me for the reasons I've given.

What you're talking about here is not a difference between philosophy and culture; it is about an artificial and arbitrary division of feminism into two groups by a right wing libertarian woman - Christina Hoff Sommers in a book she wrote over 20 years ago titled "Who Stole Feminism?"

Supposedly, according to her treatment of history, the original feminists - the suffragettes were "equity" feminists, who just wanted the right to vote and equal treatment under the law, while the 2nd wave of feminists that rose up in the 60's were "gender" feminists, who saw the problems that women face as systemic aspects of modern patriarchal cultures, which degrade the lives of both women and men alike.

In reality, no such divide ever existed; since many of the early feminists were outright anarchists who planted bombs and wanted to bring down the whole political and economic establishment. While the kickoff for the 2nd wave - Betty Friedan, campaigned mostly around the right of middle class and higher women to be out in the workforce.

But, the myth of equity feminism and gender feminism creates a convenient trope for rightwingers of all stripes (conservative, libertarian) to attack legislation and social programs that disproportionately affect the fate of women with children, while calling themselves feminists...all because they have the rhetoric of a woman...a well compensated academic - Hoff Sommers, on their side.

The propaganda effects have been similar to what has happened to the legacy of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, where Republicans and rightwingers like Glenn Beck, claim to be the heirs of MLK. Part of their success no doubt, is because all sides...especially establishment liberals...started creating the myth of the moderate, unchallenging MLK as soon as he was dead and gone! So, every year to this day, American politicians and pundits can gather round the campfire and commemorate the "I Have A Dream" speech, with its selected, non-threatening passages; while never acknowledging MLK's last major speech (and likely the one that got him assassinated) "Beyond Vietnam." What would the real Martin Luther King have to say about Barack Obama, and the political, religious and financial leaders who run the world today? I doubt they would want to hear it today any more than they did back in 1968!

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you see no distinction between blame, & advocacy of exercising the ability to reduce the risk of assault?

I do see the distinction.

Do you not see how the accusation that someone isn't "taking responsibility" at least sounds like you're saying it's their own fault?

If you don't speak to your intended audience, you WILL be misunderstood. I would suggest refraining from using the particular words "taking personal responsibility" in reference to a victim of rape, at least without also strongly clarifying that there's a difference between taking responsibility for one's own safety, and taking responsibility for the actions of another.

Besides, even when no safety precautions are taken, a victim of violent crime is not responsible in any way for the actions of the criminal, any more than the people who lived in Fukushima are responsible for the earthquake, tsunami, and subsequent nuclear disaster.

Then why do feminists object so strongly to advocating it?
Or do they only object to measures taken by the potential victim?
I've heard the rationale that one shouldn't have to do personally do anything
because it's the rapist who is at fault. This is simply illogical, so I don't buy it.
Some have even poo pooed risk reduction as ineffective, suggesting inevitability.
That's embracing powerlessness.

I have.

Show me. All the feminists that I've seen are fully in favor of preventative measures.

I seriously suspect you're misunderstanding something.

It "isn't entirely unfounded" is one of the most generous responses I've elicited here from a feminist. But if they prejudge us & ignore what we actually say, this is the very sexism they'd normally oppose. It matters little that I favor gender equality & that I say victims are blameless....as a male who doesn't adopt the brand, I'm often the enemy. It's a problem of the feminist culture (not the same as feminism) worth fixing if they want to spread awareness of their concerns & gain allies.

Believe me: if what you say is true, then I agree: it needs to be fixed. We are human, after all, and subject to all the imperfections contained therein. But that just means that when recognized, they need to be fixed.

I would say that an important step in that, however, is that we can decry actual instances of victim blaming.

It seems no coincidence that we (a male feminist & a male non) can discuss it more easily than
I can with others here. (Of course, we share the trait of being unmanly....I saw your post there.)

Lest anyone think I'm not friends with some of the feminists I find prickly at times, fear not!
I see some of their personal histories, & understand how it can affect one. So I cut some slack.
Ain't none of use perfect, so a little spat shouldn't get in the way of conversation & friendship.

Of course not. ^_^

But, sadly, hot button issues like rape tend to cause all kinds of misunderstandings.

 

[Riverwolf]

And rightfully so. :yes:
You want empowerment? Cutey Honey. Though she/it is technically not female.

Nothing to do with empowerment. But we're all empowered by different things, and should be able to like the things we like without being harassed for it.

I hate Metroid: Other M, and think it's a terribly offensive depiction of one of my favorite characters(and subsequently one of the most offensive depictions of women I've seen in a video game). But I'm not going to harass or bully the people who weren't bothered by it, or actually liked it. It's their opinion, and they're entitled to having it without being belittled for it. The game may be terribly sexist in my opinion, but the people who like it aren't necessarily sexist themselves.

Why yes of course Bronies are about equality of men and not fapping to small cartoon ponies...

Because it's about neither of those things: it's about taking pride in being a fan of a particular show not intended for them.

FWIW: The first two seasons of MLP were better than Sailor Moon ever was.

Oh, from a purely structural, written, character, and feminist-friendly standpoint? Absolutely.

I just like Sailor Moon better, purely for nostalgia reasons.

No such thing as a "right" or "wrong" opinion on enjoyment.

Worth noting, however, that Sailor Moon is THE most LGBT+-friendly show I've ever seen.

The problem with this woman is that she has absolutely no clue about Videogames at all and is incredibly fake.

I actually know plenty about video games, having been a gamer all my life, and indeed find them a fascinating source for study and design. I found absolutely nothing in her "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series that seemed inaccurate, indicating that she had done her research and knew what she was talking about.

 

[Revoltingest]

What you're talking about here is not a difference between philosophy and culture; it is about an artificial and arbitrary division of feminism into two groups by a right wing libertarian woman - Christina Hoff Sommers in a book she wrote over 20 years ago titled "Who Stole Feminism?" Supposedly, according to her treatment of history, the original feminists - the suffragettes were "equity" feminists, who just wanted the right to vote and equal treatment under the law, while the 2nd wave of feminists that rose up in the 60's were "gender" feminists, who saw the problems that women face as systemic aspects of modern patriarchal cultures, which degrade the lives of both women and men alike.

In reality, no such divide ever existed; since many of the early feminists were outright anarchists who planted bombs and wanted to bring down the whole political and economic establishment. While the kickoff for the 2nd wave - Betty Friedan, campaigned mostly around the right of middle class and higher women to be out in the workforce.

But, the myth of equity feminism and gender feminism creates a convenient trope for rightwingers of all stripes (conservative, libertarian) to attack legislation and social programs that disproportionately affect the fate of women with children, while calling themselves feminists...all because they have the rhetoric of a woman...a well compensated academic - Hoff Sommers, on their side.

The propaganda effects have been similar to what has happened to the legacy of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, where Republicans and rightwingers like Glenn Beck, claim to be the heirs of MLK. Part of their success no doubt, is because all sides...especially establishment liberals...started creating the myth of the moderate, unchallenging MLK as soon as he was dead and gone! So, every year to this day, American politicians and pundits can gather round the campfire and commemorate the "I Have A Dream" speech, with its selected, non-threatening passages; while never acknowledging MLK's last major speech (and likely the one that got him assassinated) "Beyond Vietnam." What would the real Martin Luther King have to say about Barack Obama, and the political, religious and financial leaders who run the world today? I doubt they would want to hear it today any more than they did back in 1968!

Whole lotta werds, but nothing to address.