Why I'm Not A "Feminist"

[Revoltingest]

I do see the distinction.

Woo hoo, detente!

Do you not see how the accusation that someone isn't "taking responsibility" at least sounds like you're saying it's their own fault?

Oh, boy...do I ever see how saying one thing can be heard as entirely something else.
I note that my writing fails to adequately the lens thru which some will read.
The mind of other people is a mysterious thing, & requires continual study.

If you don't speak to your intended audience, you WILL be misunderstood. I would suggest refraining from using the particular words "taking personal responsibility" in reference to a victim of rape, at least without also strongly clarifying that there's a difference between taking responsibility for one's own safety, and taking responsibility for the actions of another.

Herein lies a problem. I was (& am still) addressing potential victims, but actual (unknown
to me at the time) victims misread me. Nonetheless, the concept of taking responsibility
for even probabilistic outcomes, no matter how uncomfortable, is one I strongly advocate.

Besides, even when no safety precautions are taken, a victim of violent crime is not responsible in any way for the actions of the criminal, any more than the people who lived in Fukushima are responsible for the earthquake, tsunami, and subsequent nuclear disaster.

No matter how often I agree with what you just posted, or say that the victim is
not to blame, I sense that such portions of my posts are invisible to feminists.
It works simply:
See something dangerous? Can the risk be reduced reasonably? It's worth doing.
It's the individual's responsibility to do this, despite the lack of guarantees & that
fact that some malefactor put'm in this position of danger.

Show me. All the feminists that I've seen are fully in favor of preventative measures.

If I showed the posts would it really make any difference? They're scattered throughout
the threads, with varying levels of directly opposing risk management. Oddly, then some
will say exactly my message without any trouble. Again...tergiversation is the word of the day.

I seriously suspect you're misunderstanding something.

Haven't we all been doing just that? I've failed to anticipate how the lens of feminism
alters my messages, & feminists have been reading some script which is not mine.

Believe me: if what you say is true, then I agree: it needs to be fixed. We are human, after all, and subject to all the imperfections contained therein. But that just means that when recognized, they need to be fixed.
I would say that an important step in that, however, is that we can decry actual instances of victim blaming.

Don't try to out-imperfect me! I can be imperfecter than you!
But yes, I've endured crimes against me before, & I know that I'm not to blame. But I
learn from them, & take the responsibility for future outcomes by managing my risk.

Of course not. ^_^
But, sadly, hot button issues like rape tend to cause all kinds of misunderstandings.

As stressful as all this stuff has been, I've gained respect for some feminist posters
here who impress me by working thru a rancorous atmosphere with civility.
But feminist culture's stock has fallen on my exchange. On the whole....a good outcome.

 

[Riverwolf]

If I showed the posts would it really make any difference? They're scattered throughout
the threads, with varying levels of directly opposing risk management. Oddly, then some
will say exactly my message without any trouble. Again...tergiversation is the word of the day.

Yes, showing me would make a difference, at least in whether or not I can see if there's actually a problem going on, if there's just miscommunication between you two, or if what you're describing is actually a minority viewpoint and not a real problem at all.

If someone later said essentially the same thing you did, show me that post, too.

Haven't we all been doing just that? I've failed to anticipate how the lens of feminism
alters my messages, & feminists have been reading some script which is not mine.

Yes, but I know I'm at least trying to understand. But I'm not being given anything to work with except perspectives with little or no source-backup.

Don't try to out-imperfect me! I can be imperfecter than you!
But yes, I've endured crimes against me before, & I know that I'm not to blame. But I
learn from them, & take the responsibility for future outcomes by managing my risk.

As stressful as all this stuff has been, I've gained respect for some feminist posters
here who impress me by working thru a rancorous atmosphere with civility.
But feminist culture's stock has fallen on my exchange. On the whole....a good outcome.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure feminism has a pan-culture to call its own. I suspect each subset or specific issue has its own distinctive culture.

I'm a feminist, but I don't actually participate much in any feminist culture, except every now and then in that purple DIR. I just applied the label to myself when I immediately answered "yes" to the question of whether I believe gender equality is something we don't have that's worth striving for. Plus, for different reasons, I've given up on going label-less.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, showing me would make a difference, at least in whether or not I can see if there's actually a problem going on, or if there's just miscommunication between you two.

Ugh...a research project across several long threads? We'll see what happens.

Yes, but I know I'm at least trying to understand. But I'm not being given anything to work with except perspectives with little or no source-backup.

I don't have a source for the script.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure feminism has a pan-culture to call its own. I suspect each subset or specific issue has its own distinctive culture.

I've noted that RF might be different from the general case.

I'm a feminist, but I don't actually participate much in any feminist culture, except every now and then in that purple DIR. I just applied the label to myself when I immediately answered "yes" to the question of whether I believe gender equality is something we don't have that's worth striving for. Plus, for different reasons, I've given up on going label-less.

Labels can be useful.

 

[Alceste]

Nothing to do with empowerment. But we're all empowered by different things, and should be able to like the things we like without being harassed for it.

I hate Metroid: Other M, and think it's a terribly offensive depiction of one of my favorite characters(and subsequently one of the most offensive depictions of women I've seen in a video game). But I'm not going to harass or bully the people who weren't bothered by it, or actually liked it. It's their opinion, and they're entitled to having it without being belittled for it. The game may be terribly sexist in my opinion, but the people who like it aren't necessarily sexist themselves.

Because it's about neither of those things: it's about taking pride in being a fan of a particular show not intended for them.

Oh, from a purely structural, written, character, and feminist-friendly standpoint? Absolutely.

I just like Sailor Moon better, purely for nostalgia reasons.

No such thing as a "right" or "wrong" opinion on enjoyment.

Worth noting, however, that Sailor Moon is THE most LGBT+-friendly show I've ever seen.

I actually know plenty about video games, having been a gamer all my life, and indeed find them a fascinating source for study and design. I found absolutely nothing in her "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series that seemed inaccurate, indicating that she had done her research and knew what she was talking about.

I agree. She did a fine job. Her videos made an impact on the indie game development community - in general, developers see her point and agree with it, and have tried to do better with their portrayal of women because of it. The backlash came from gamers, not developers. Developers understand they're not just making content for horny teenage boys any more. It's the horny teenage boys themselves that are filled with outrage and hostility.

 

[work in progress]

Whole lotta werds, but nothing to address.

It's all about education! Your posts on political, social and economic issues typically pontificate on origins and history, without any prior checking to verify their accuracy, or distinguish them from heresay and urban myth.

There are as many divisions among feminist writers over the years as there are feminists, so it's going to take a whole lotta werds just to distill some of the basic trends and themes down to a few points. And that explains a lot of the success conservatives have had rewriting history...which was already happening prior to Hoff Sommers!

She got all the attention by being a woman with a PHD, and coining a handy term to describe the preferred right wing version of no frills feminism, that would not challenge economics, political or social policies...and as a result, provide no social benefits for women or society as a whole.

 

[Flankerl]

Nothing to do with empowerment. But we're all empowered by different things, and should be able to like the things we like without being harassed for it.

Its called childhood. You also shouldnt be harassed because your ears/nose look weird, but you are. Such is life.

I hate Metroid: Other M, and think it's a terribly offensive depiction of one of my favorite characters(and subsequently one of the most offensive depictions of women I've seen in a video game). But I'm not going to harass or bully the people who weren't bothered by it, or actually liked it. It's their opinion, and they're entitled to having it without being belittled for it. The game may be terribly sexist in my opinion, but the people who like it aren't necessarily sexist themselves.

But no one liked Other M.

Because it's about neither of those things: it's about taking pride in being a fan of a particular show not intended for them.

No not really. I saw how it started on the image boards. Sure many guys who just liked it for being a good show were present and still are. But the vast majority is now driven by the urge of doing the action with a pony.
Must be because all the weirdo furries.

Oh, from a purely structural, written, character, and feminist-friendly standpoint? Absolutely.

I just like Sailor Moon better, purely for nostalgia reasons.

No such thing as a "right" or "wrong" opinion on enjoyment.

Worth noting, however, that Sailor Moon is THE most LGBT+-friendly show I've ever seen.

I see.

I actually know plenty about video games, having been a gamer all my life, and indeed find them a fascinating source for study and design. I found absolutely nothing in her "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series that seemed inaccurate, indicating that she had done her research and knew what she was talking about.

So you dont find anything wrong with her "theory"(oh writing that hurt a bit) that its always the evil patriarchates fault that the hero has to save a girl and not that... its by far the most well known and easiest storyplot to get young boys(you know the people who buy these games) interested in the game?

And that the male lead character obviously thinks of his "maiden" as too weak to handle herself and not that he... brace yourself... just loves her and goes through tremendous dangers to save her?

Nah it must be the patriarchate.


btw i love how she rambles against the typical female way of dressing in videogames and actually tells you that while she wears heavy makeup and hoop earrings. Quite amusing.

Oh and her God of War collection.(quite the feminist video game series...)

And how she steals Gameplay videos of other Youtubers and claims them as her own.

But its probably just the patriarchate making me see things that arent there.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's all about education! Your posts on political, social and economic issues typically pontificate on origins and history, without any prior checking to verify their accuracy, or distinguish them from heresay and urban myth.

There are as many divisions among feminist writers over the years as there are feminists, so it's going to take a whole lotta werds just to distill some of the basic trends and themes down to a few points. And that explains a lot of the success conservatives have had rewriting history...which was already happening prior to Hoff Sommers!

She got all the attention by being a woman with a PHD, and coining a handy term to describe the preferred right wing version of no frills feminism, that would not challenge economics, political or social policies...and as a result, provide no social benefits for women or society as a whole.

Yeah, about that....woof!

 

[Riverwolf]

Ugh...a research project across several long threads? We'll see what happens.

You don't have to, if you think it'd be too much trouble.

I don't have a source for the script.

I mean for the general outlook on feminism.

I've noted that RF might be different from the general case.

Well, the self-identified feminists on RF are few enough to have a culture. But RF alone, despite its small size, has many subcultures of its own.

Labels can be useful.

That, and I've recently realized that even the label of "no-label" is still a label, even if it's one that's applied by one's peers.

 

[oldbadger]

There are as many divisions among feminist writers over the years as there are feminists,

........... are you suggesting that the feminist world is filled with directionless in-fighting? Not good.

so it's going to take a whole lotta werds just to distill some of the basic trends and themes down to a few points.

Mistake. Lay people do not respond to complicated intellectual mish-mash (Hog-Wash). Keep it simple if you want to win support.... No?

Wotcha fink?

 

[Riverwolf]

Its called childhood. You also shouldnt be harassed because your ears/nose look weird, but you are. Such is life.

Except that this is one thing that we can teach kids not to universally tease each other about liking.

Nobody teased anybody for liking that show about brightly colored, spandex-and-dumb-helmet-wearing kung fu adults-pretending-to-be-teenagers preaching goodie-two-shoes perfection.

But no one liked Other M.

Plenty of people did, actually; they were just in the minority. (Other M isn't Duke Nukem Forever... though LGR liked that one...)

I haven't watched it, yet, but The Completionist has a video on Other M in a series of his titled "Defend It", and after watching his series on Final Fantasy VII, I expect a very well-informed argument that I'll still disagree with. (EDIT: Just watched it, now, actually... I'm surprised, he acknowledged the story to be garbage, and the only thing he defended was the gameplay itself... which I can't agree or disagree with without actually playing it myself... DARN IT!)

No not really. I saw how it started on the image boards. Sure many guys who just liked it for being a good show were present and still are. But the vast majority is now driven by the urge of doing the action with a pony.
Must be because all the weirdo furries.

I never saw that from anyone in the Brony community, nor have I heard anything about the Brony community being like that from anyone, either from Bronies themselves or fans who aren't active in the community. And I've been around the internet.

I think what you're seeing is just one small facet of Bronies that ends up on DeviantArt and like places. That's place is Rule 34: The Website.

So you dont find anything wrong with her "theory"(oh writing that hurt a bit) that its always the evil patriarchates fault that the hero has to save a girl and not that... its by far the most well known and easiest storyplot to get young boys(you know the people who buy these games) interested in the game? And that the male lead character obviously thinks of his "maiden" as too weak to handle herself and not that he... brace yourself... just loves her and goes through tremendous dangers to save her?

She never made either of those two arguments.

btw i love how she rambles against the typical female way of dressing in videogames and actually tells you that while she wears heavy makeup and hoop earrings. Quite amusing.

Not really. She likes wearing makeup (is it really that heavy? I don't really notice such things) and hoop earrings. Quite a long way from chainmail bikinis, if you ask me.

Besides, when she did talk about how women are dressed in games, it wasn't so much how they were dressed so much as the fact that it's pretty much how all women in video games dress, where men get all kinds of variety. I don't know about you, but I never see hoop earrings outside of pirate movies.

Oh and her God of War collection.(quite the feminist video game series...)

So, maybe she's changed her mind on violence in video games, and likes God of War, now? Sure, they're not feminist friendly AT ALL, but the first one, at least, is a FANTASTIC example of a Greek Tragedy, and thus quite worthy of study.

Every single one of her videos opens up by saying that it's entirely possible to enjoy things while still being critical of them.

I go even further by arguing that being a true fan of something means acknowledging its problems. I LOVE the Zelda games (one my first threads on RF was in the Games section, asking about what Hyrule might be like if it were in the real world), but do find Tetra's complete personality FLIP in the middle of Wind Waker to be incredibly frustrating. (Also frustrating that the only two games where you actually get to play as Zelda, well... SUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!)

And how she steals Gameplay videos of other Youtubers and claims them as her own.

Using let's play footage from one youtuber, who said that the footage could be used with permission, IS something she probably did and should apologize for. (If what Angry Joe says is true; I haven't looked into that matter, because I'm more interested in her argument than her character.)

But then, she never claimed that any of the gameplay footage was her own, nor does it say anything about the value of her argument.

But its probably just the patriarchate making me see things that arent there.

Or just paying too much attention to the people who never actually took the time to watch the videos, and so have no idea what they're talking about.

The first video had close to two million views. The other three videos didn't even break half a million as of a few months ago. That tells me that her critics are largely uninformed about what her arguments actually are.

Besides, I think we both agree that whatever the merits of her arguments and character, she didn't deserve a single bit of the harassment she got for daring to challenge the status quo.

 

[Robert.Evans]

To clarify what this thread is about, I put "feminist" in quotation marks because I do not identify
with the label. But I favor gender equality as do many mainstream feminists. Heckfire, I even
took a test which classified me as a feminist. (Shocker, eh?)
So why eschew the label?
Tis because I see feminism as a movement embodying some general (with some diversity) traits.

Feminism:
- Focuses on females.
Sure, sure, some feminists also address disadvantages visited upon men.
But by & large, it's about the females. I noticed that they were very
silent about the military draft of men.
- Tends to dismiss the MRM (men's rights movement) as reactionary,
anti-feminism, whiny, or a subset of feminism (since their approach to
gender equality would fix all men's problems too).
- Advocates increased government authority. Affirmative action was a
fine tool for women, but it legalized active discrimination against men.
- Tolerates hostility in its own ranks against males. All gender inequity
is chalked up to "patriarchy", ie, it's the man's fault.
- Sees women as victims, failing to recognize & use the power they already have.
- Polarizes the abortion debate, making anti-abortion advocates out to be
anti-woman. I'm pro-abortion, but see this as a question of when life & attendant
civil rights begin. The whole "war on woman" campaign seems dishonest & divisive.

Is anyone else here a "non" (non-feminist) despite sympathy for the cause?
Why?

Note:
Don't take my generalities too far. I only see them as slight group tendencies.
Moreover, I don't say my perspective is THE TRUTH or any such foolishness.
I merely explain what I see, how I react, & what I believe.

Rules for this thread:
- Be civil to each other. After all, we're just disagreeing about important things.
- Go ahead & generalize, but be careful about over-generalizing.

So I learn one thing new, men can be seen as feminists. That to me is very strange, since feminist went to break up the family (their words not mine) and kill babies because they want a job so they are not controlled by men. There are consequences for that, such as already mentioned, and a shortage of jobs for men.
I might add that we are all part of the Nature of God and as such we answer for who we are. Thus there is more to this (for those interested) than first meets the eye. Women in short wish to be men because they are intimidated by men, hence the reason they dress as men and sit as men and stick together (s--ism). Their role of bringing up the human race is apparently not as fulfilling as working in the supermarket. Perhaps we men did not give them sufficient respect for their role, and perhaps we also have made life too easy so they also can do that. I remember a professor[ess] Alice Roberts who was in Africa. The black native woman asked in her language where Roberts baby was. She said back at home with her husband. The look on the face of the African woman said it all. Roberts was felt somewhat guilty because of this and yet the African woman had her baby tied to her back. Seems incredibly hard that they should suffer so much when they have so much right; but that I'm afraid is Scripture; we answer for who we are in a far deeper level than we see. Black Africans are the original Yisrael.

 

[oldbadger]

Women in short wish to be men because they are intimidated by men, hence the reason they dress as men and sit as men and stick together (s--ism). Their role of bringing up the human race is apparently not as fulfilling as working in the supermarket.

Hi...... You remind me of my History Master, back in the late fifties. We called him Fatty-Haig (no insult directed to you..... that's what we called him).

Of course, in the late 50's women had a very very long way to go to emancipation, but Fatty would have none of it. This was his daily rant at us boys, many of us must have been imprinted by this old donosaur.

Boys! It's a woman's world! They didn't have to fight out in the deserts..... never saw a bloody woman at El Alamein! They moan about their lot...... they MOAN for God's sake (Oldbadger, sit up!). They retire 5 years earlier than us! Five years! Yet they live 13 years longer than us! Ha! It's a woman'd world. They don't have to pay for anything, get doors opened for them.... idiots... absolute idiots give up their seats to them..... what for, for God's sake? .....Ahhhh..... it's a woman's world..... AND DON'T ANY OF YOU EVER FORGET IT!

I never did forget old fatty Haig....... some would have been imprinted for ever, .methinks.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Man is the head of the woman as per Scripture, and nature, which nowadays is seen as negative in the West; perhaps we men have ourselves to blame for that; just as the word "slave" (bonded-servant) is seen negative in the OT, when in fact it was a way of helping your brother out of hard times (and in helping the brother, helping the sister with him). Strange that men would give jobs to women though considering that we would be shooting ourselves in the foot; but ahhh, if there is a woman working with a man, he has someone less threatening and perhaps part of his women ( like the deer for the stag), and after all, the man in question has a job, so why should he be bothered about another male considering we as men are territorial. The female, who hates the male, because he has more power, still has to use the male for her own ends (we all have ulterior motives) thus she still needs a mate of one description or another, even if only for a family; also they are a good defense against other males that they don't like and can't control. Certainly whenever the balance of the Consciousness of everything is out of sink it will show in society, change always creates problems somewhere along the line. Now we see families break up, men who can't see their children because the courts favour the weak minded woman (who they must protect) so some men also can't cope, and then we see murder and suicide. All this seems to be taken in the stride of society as if we are not in any way responsible; yet we are. Women see less of the children and have to give them to child care, which in itself can lead to problems such as pedophiles abusing them: this has happened in England. Do we see the women in question return to their role and loving and respecting their offspring? no; it seems that they value their so called 'freedom' (from men) as more important. The excuse seems to be that they are getting money to give them a better life; but no child is every going to remember the nice carpet they played on or the nice wallpaper; they remember the smile, the love, the understanding, the warm fire and the food fetched by their mother; material things count for nothing when it comes to memory. Yet this is exactly he thing they do not receive from their own mothers. I find that pretty shocking. Thankfully it is not all, but even stay at home mothers now are seen as problems; the main reason is that the government want them working so they can tax them and so they stop having children because they fear the world population; because of this we have a shortfall of people to keep the pensions etc going, so we then have to increase immigration which in itself creates problems; already there is a lack of jobs because of the women; thus we get riots and people selling drugs because there is nothing else within their lives to do.

Now, how about that for a 'controversial' start. Truth can hurt. But women you should not worry, men always protect you, even at the detriment of themselves; One would struggle to imagine women doing that if the tables had been turned.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Hi...... You remind me of my History Master, back in the late fifties. We called him Fatty-Haig (no insult directed to you..... that's what we called him).

Of course, in the late 50's women had a very very long way to go to emancipation, but Fatty would have none of it. This was his daily rant at us boys, many of us must have been imprinted by this old donosaur.

Boys! It's a woman's world! They didn't have to fight out in the deserts..... never saw a bloody woman at El Alamein! They moan about their lot...... they MOAN for God's sake (Oldbadger, sit up!). They retire 5 years earlier than us! Five years! Yet they live 13 years longer than us! Ha! It's a woman'd world. They don't have to pay for anything, get doors opened for them.... idiots... absolute idiots give up their seats to them..... what for, for God's sake? .....Ahhhh..... it's a woman's world..... AND DON'T ANY OF YOU EVER FORGET IT!

I never did forget old fatty Haig....... some would have been imprinted for ever, .methinks.

I think he made a lot of sense. The emancipation of women is them waiting until life is easy enough and us males daft enough to give away what we built up; everyone is responsible for their actions and, being part of God, we all answer, unfortunately, women as well; he shows no favouratism

 

[oldbadger]

.................. The emancipation of women is them waiting until life is easy enough and us males daft enough to give away what we built up..............

Well........ too late, I'm afraid.

Your dentist, doctor, bus driver, government minister...... the police officer who protects you....... many of these are women now...... and more to come.

Of course, you should have got used to the idea 30 years ago when we had a female prime minister.......... much hated by many RFers, but the first gutsy PM since Churchill, really.

No..... you've had it, I'm afraid. A district nurse has been visiting my home for weeks now..... his name is David. See? The genders are mixing into the system to produce a condition of equality. All bound up in the Equality Act, you see?

Even your mechanic might be a female now..... won't be long before an F! champion will be female. And already there are truck drivers, and news-presenters, and ..... and even shop-workers can be females.

Why.... you must be chewing your knuckles in consternation...... and reading your scriptures for comfort, of course.

Because.... well....... your world is not dying..... no.... not so. Your world is dead.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well........ too late, I'm afraid.

Your dentist, doctor, bus driver, government minister...... the police officer who protects you....... many of these are women now...... and more to come.

Of course, you should have got used to the idea 30 years ago when we had a female prime minister.......... much hated by many RFers, but the first gutsy PM since Churchill, really.

No..... you've had it, I'm afraid. A district nurse has been visiting my home for weeks now..... his name is David. See? The genders are mixing into the system to produce a condition of equality. All bound up in the Equality Act, you see?

Even your mechanic might be a female now..... won't be long before an F! champion will be female. And already there are truck drivers, and news-presenters, and ..... and even shop-workers can be females.

Why.... you must be chewing your knuckles in consternation...... and reading your scriptures for comfort, of course.

Because.... well....... your world is not dying..... no.... not so. Your world is dead.

quite so; but that does not mean we cannot point out the problems that come with such things; offspring that suffers, relationships that suffer; perhaps we shall become as the male lions, who allow the females to do the work; may be that's not so bad, eh; I'm sure they would be very happy to do it.....or, or, perhaps they would want equality, and wish to stay at home like us; problems problems; the wheel keeps turning... everything is Fractal, 'nothing new under the sun'; we learn nothing, nothing at all.

 

[Riverwolf]

quite so; but that does not mean we cannot point out the problems that come with such things; offspring that suffers, relationships that suffer; perhaps we shall become as the male lions, who allow the females to do the work; may be that's not so bad, eh; I'm sure they would be very happy to do it.....or, or, perhaps they would want equality, and wish to stay at home like us; problems problems; the wheel keeps turning... everything is Fractal, 'nothing new under the sun'; we learn nothing, nothing at all.

Strange analogy of male lions. When a new male lion takes over the pride, he kills the existent cubs. Not something that I think we should strive for.

Feminism today is not like feminism 100 years ago. Now, feminine men like myself can speak out, as well, and hold fast to our feminine nature with pride. Hence, feminism. Furthermore, I'm sex-positive, which means I believe that safe, consensual sex and sexuality of all kinds are to be celebrated, not shunned.

It's not going against the natural order: it's undoing the damage that the Greco-Roman world did.

BTW, it's entirely possible (if incredibly difficult) to make a living while staying home, now.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Strange analogy of male lions. When a new male lion takes over the pride, he kills the existent cubs. Not something that I think we should strive for.

Feminism today is not like feminism 100 years ago. Now, feminine men like myself can speak out, as well, and hold fast to our feminine nature with pride. Hence, feminism. Furthermore, I'm sex-positive, which means I believe that safe, consensual sex and sexuality of all kinds are to be celebrated, not shunned.

It's not going against the natural order: it's undoing the damage that the Greco-Roman world did.

BTW, it's entirely possible (if incredibly difficult) to make a living while staying home, now.

I think I have little problems with that except.... when you said 'feminine' I take it you meant 'feminist'. To me that is a new quite strange thing to hear. It shows we are under the feminine spirit of the world now.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Women are not the reason for a lack of jobs.

 

[Curious George]

I think I have little problems with that except.... when you said 'feminine' I take it you meant 'feminist'. To me that is a new quite strange thing to hear. It shows we are under the feminine spirit of the world now.

I am a male feminist, but that does not entail me being under a feminine spirit, nor does it entail me breaking up families or killing children. Your views on feminism are so far removed from my point of view, I have no idea where to begin a discussion. Perhaps, we can take it one point at a time, perhaps discussion is pointless, I am not sure. But, lest you think your worldview is unchallenged, I am posting here.

If only u knew me in RL. Perhaps, that would be enough.