why is being gay forbidden ?

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Perhaps, but being born that way is still a choice!

I know we have to be respectful of each other in these forums, thus I often struggle to tame my words, but in this case, I simply can not be respectful because that is the most asinine statement I have ever heard in my life! You are not capable of choosing how you were born.

A study was completed by a gay Christian group with some interesting findings. They went to various religious colleges and surveyed a sizeable sample size.

One of the most showing questions they asked was this: "A person who has same-sex attractions marries a partner of the opposite sex; what is that person's true sexual orientation?" A sizeable percentage of those surveyed actually stated that he was STRAIGHT!

Much of what we have going on in the "debate" over whether or not gay is a choice is a communications breakdown. The study suggested that most who believe "gay is a choice" define homsexuality by behavior; those who did not believe that gay was a choice (and the gay community for the most part) define being gay by "attraction".

Our sexual orientations are what our sexual orientations are and they can not be changed by choice, neither were they "selected" by choice. By sexual orientation, I mean that which we are attracted to.

A gay man or woman can go out and marry a member of the opposite gender, have as many opposite gender sexual partners they want to, but at the end of the day, their attractions -- their sexual orientations -- are what they are.

Being gay (attraction) is not a choice. Neither is being straight.

Our behavior is, and always will be, a choice -- that much I will concede, and I do so because it is what I believe to be the truth. Thus, a gay who lives as if they were straight, is still gay. A gay who chooses to be celibate is still gay. And being gay is not the "sin" any more than being straight is the "sin". It should be the behaviors they choose that determine whether or not we are living in "sin".

Gay is not a choice.
Behavior is a choice.

See the difference?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Agreed. About 1% of homosexuals are actually born with genetic predispositions inclining to a sexual identity opposite to their physical characteristics. That is a very small number considering the entire homosexual population of the U.S. is between 1-2%, but locally higher is some cities like San Francisco. The "born that way" argument is based on rare exceptions and blown out of proportion to satisfy a guilty conscience. Sexuality is subject to a high degree of conditioning, with most homosexuals engaging in promiscuous acts in early adolescence, then becoming conditioned into an identity that is reinforced by the gay agenda and peer pressure of their own choosing. I've seen this happen in my own family........

The biggest fallacy in your "research" and "conclusions" is the lack of common denominators among the gay community.

Let's take a quick look at sexual offenders, and narrow that down to abusers of children. In studying these people, we see common denominators in their upbringing; we find some showing and striking similarities between each of them. WE find some kind of abuse or trauma during their formative years; we find from their formative years (and often carrying on past these formative years, even after leaving their families) poor boundaries within the home (like, perhaps, feeling it "appropriate" to share bath time with various members of the family that most families would deem inappropriate); we find striking similarities during teen years, such as the inability to bond with age mates and bonding instead with another age group (generally younger); we find that this behavior/attraction even has patterns within racial and social confines (with the vast majority of pedophiles being white); we find all of this and much more.

But we don't find this among gays, who come from every racial group, every social and religious background, some from abusive or dysfunctional families (others from healthy families) .... in short, outside of genetics, we find no common denominators among the gay populace.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You're better off reading Catholic and Orthodox Christian arguments for why homosexual sexual acts are viewed as sinful because they're the most detailed and philosophically grounded. Even I, who generally is accepting of gays and lesbians, has a difficult time arguing against it, admittedly. Basically, gay sex acts are viewed as a violation of Natural Law.
002-04: Homosexuality – International Catholic University

Why should I take seriously anything the Catholic Church says on sexuality, given the epidemic of sex abuse by Catholic priests and the regressive approach to birth control?

 

[psychoslice]

There are people in this world that don't like anything that doesn't resonate with their own beliefs, these are the ones that are too far up themselves to realize anything better than their own stupid beliefs.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why should I take seriously anything the Catholic Church says on sexuality, given the epidemic of sex abuse by Catholic priests and the regressive approach to birth control?

The sex abuse issue is a separate topic. As for artificial birth control, maybe if you bothered to study Catholicism's sexual teachings and the philosophy underpinning it, you'd understand it. If anything, you would be better equipped to argue against it from your point of view. Because calling being against condom use "regressive" is an immature way to look at it when you learn the philosophical underpinnings behind the teaching against it. But most progressive types today prefer to be ignorant and make arguments based on selfishness.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps, but being born that way is still a choice!

Two cents: The behavior is a choice. The spiritual, mental, physical attraction is not.

I am a lesbian. I never even heard the word before I knew for years I was "attracted to women." I never had a relationship until years after heterosexuals labeled me homosexual defined as a behavior. I didnt know it was an issue to dictate a persons attraction and relationship until I reached adulthood.

To regulate and descriminate people based on gender is silly. People are killed for attractions and others just put in jail for illegal actions.

America is something else indeed.

 

[psychoslice]

I'm a poffter and proud of it, I don't give a crap to what others think of me.

 

[pro4life]

Agreed. About 1% of homosexuals are actually born with genetic predispositions inclining to a sexual identity opposite to their physical characteristics. That is a very small number considering the entire homosexual population of the U.S. is between 1-2%, but locally higher is some cities like San Francisco. The "born that way" argument is based on rare exceptions and blown out of proportion to satisfy a guilty conscience. Sexuality is subject to a high degree of conditioning, with most homosexuals engaging in promiscuous acts in early adolescence, then becoming conditioned into an identity that is reinforced by the gay agenda and peer pressure of their own choosing. I've seen this happen in my own family.

There is nothing wrong with being "gay". Doing gay things are immoral. Same with a heterosexual who cheats on their spouse. It's destructive. There are personal and/or social consequences to violating moral laws.

While the Church does recognize homosexuality as disordered, this does not mean that the Church is uncompassionate to those who suffer from the disorder. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies . . . must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

Homosexuals of both sexes remain fourteen times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexuals1 and 3½ times more likely to commit suicide successfully.2 Thirty years ago, this propensity toward suicide was attributed to social rejection, but the numbers have remained largely stable since then despite far greater public acceptance than existed in 1973. Study after study shows that male and female homosexuals have much higher rates of interpersonal maladjustment, depression, conduct disorder, childhood abuse (both sexual and violent), domestic violence, alcohol or drug abuse, anxiety, and dependency on psychiatric care than heterosexuals.3 Life expectancy of homosexual men was only forty-eight years before the AIDS virus came on the scene, and it is now down to thirty-eight.50Only 2 percent of homosexual men live past age sixty-five.4

Male homosexuals are prone to cancer (especially anal cancer, which is almost unheard-of in male heterosexuals) and various sexually transmitted diseases, including urethritis, laryngitis, prostatitis, hepatitis A and B, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and genital warts (which are caused by the human papilloma virus, which also causes genital cancers).5 Lesbians are at lower risk for STDs but at high risk for breast cancer.6Homosexuals of both sexes have high rates of drug abuse, including cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other psychedelics, barbiturates, and amyl nitrate.7
Footnotes:​

1. 1. C. Bagley and P. Tremblay, "Suicidal Behaviors in Homosexual and Bisexual Males," Crisis 18 (1997): 24-34.
   2. R. A. Garofalo et al., "The Associations Between Health Risk Behaviors and Sexual Orientation Among a School-Based Sample of Adolescents," Pediatrics 101 (1998): 895-902.
   3. R. Herrell et al., Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 867-74; D. M. Fergusson, J. Horwood, A. L. Beautrais, "Is Sexual Orientation Related to Mental Health Problems and Suicidality in Young People?" Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 876-80; M. J. Bailey, "Homosexuality and Mental Illness," Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 883-4.
   4. P. Cameron and K. Cameron, "Homosexual Parents," Adolescence 31 (1996): 757-76.
   5. Ibid.
   6. Laura Dean et al., "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Health: Findings and Concerns," Journal of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association 4, no. 3 (2000): 101-51.
   7. Ibid.
   8. Ibid.

I got to see one credible scientific source that proves that people are born gay or that 1% you're referring to. I didn't expect those words coming especially from you as a Catholic.

 

[pro4life]

No it isn't. A bisexual or pansexual might choose to engage in homosexual relationships over heterosexual ones, but that's the only context where choice is involved.

But all sexual orientations are from birth. I'm not sexually attracted to men at all. I'm actually quite repulsed by the idea of sex with another man. Hence, I was born heterosexual; it wasn't a choice. The reverse is true of homosexual men.

Or how do you consider asexuality?



Either you've been lied to by whatever told you this, or it was renamed because the name was determined to be stupid. Homosexuality has nothing whatsoever with HIV.

'They' didn't change it because 'it' sounded stupid, rather it was the gay-community that rallied against the name.
'''''''

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The sex abuse issue is a separate topic.

Sex abuse by Catholic priests certainly isn't a separate topic, it's symptomatic of the weird and repressive attitude that the Catholic Church has towards sex.

As for artificial birth control, maybe if you bothered to study Catholicism's sexual teachings and the philosophy underpinning it, you'd understand it. If anything, you would be better equipped to argue against it from your point of view. Because calling being against condom use "regressive" is an immature way to look at it when you learn the philosophical underpinnings behind the teaching against it

If you think even briefly about what is happening in the developing world you will see that your argument is nonsensical. Many unwanted babies, high rates of infant mortality, grinding poverty and lack of resources, high rates of HIV infection, and so on. Shame on the Catholic Church for teaching against birth control, condoms and safe sex.

But most progressive types today prefer to be ignorant and make arguments based on selfishness.

I grew up as a Roman Catholic and experienced the repression and ignorance first hand.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sex abuse by Catholic priests certainly isn't a separate topic, it's symptomatic of the weird and repressive attitude that the Catholic Church has towards sex.

Yes, it is another topic. If we get into that, it'll derail the thread. If you want to talk about that, start another thread.

If you think even briefly about what is happening in the developing world you will see that your argument is nonsensical. Many unwanted babies, high rates of infant mortality, grinding poverty and lack of resources, high rates of HIV infection, and so on. Shame on the Catholic Church for teaching against birth control, condoms and safe sex.

Actually, if people practiced self-control, we wouldn't have those problems. How ironic. You seem to have just randomly tossed in "infant mortality" and "poverty", as well. "Lack of resources" doesn't fit there, either.

By "developing world", you seem to mostly be referring to Africa and there are non-religious social reasons for why they have high rates of HIV/AIDS. It's because of their rather libertine sexual cultures. The African Muslim nations don't have much of a problem with HIV/AIDS. I wonder why.

I grew up as a Roman Catholic and experienced the repression and ignorance first hand.

And that's supposed to mean what to me? You didn't seem to have much of a grasp of how Dharmic religions view sex, so I don't think you're the best source of information when it comes to Catholic sexual morality.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

To regulate and discriminate people based on gender is silly.

Silly, ignorant, bigoted, childish.....all of those.

I look forward to a time when homophobia will be seen as the bigotry it is, and become as unacceptable as racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. I look forward to a time when religious people will grow up a bit and stop adding to these problems.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

....I don't think you're the best source of information when it comes to Catholic sexual morality.

I went to a Roman Catholic boarding school and experienced first hand dubious sexual activity by Roman Catholic brothers. I think you are trying to defend the indefensible on this thread, and your eel-wriggling isn't at all convincing.

Christ didn't say "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight".

Some people are gay, get over it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I went to a Roman Catholic boarding school and experienced first hand dubious sexual activity by Roman Catholic brothers. I think you are trying to defend the indefensible on this thread, and your eel-wriggling isn't at all convincing.

Christ didn't say "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight".

Some people are gay, get over it.

I didn't say anything about gay people. I'm not straight. I notice you ignored the rest of my post.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I didn't say anything about gay people.

That's what the thread is about. Repressive attitudes towards gay people by some religious types.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Silly, ignorant, bigoted, childish.....all of those.

I look forward to a time when homophobia will be seen as the bigotry it is, and become as unacceptable as racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. I look forward to a time when religious people will grow up a bit and stop adding to these problems.

There is no real acceptance of homosexuality without religious acceptance. Religion basicly just means taking subjectivity seriously, just as like science basically means to take objectivity seriously. When homosexuality is accepted while religion declines, it just means to say, we are superficial anything goes. If homosexuals make witness that it is in accordance with the lord God almighty, then they are on their way to acceptance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's what the thread is about. Repressive attitudes towards gay people by some religious types.

I already provided information about why the Church views homosexual sexual acts as sinful. Not sure where you wish to go from here with me.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is no real acceptance of homosexuality without religious acceptance.

Real acceptance of homosexuality is gradually developing, despite the opposition of certain misguided religious bigots.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I already provided information about why the Church views homosexual sexual acts as sinful. Not sure where you wish to go from here with me.

Start thinking for yourself. Why accept such bigoted and repressive nonsense just because some religions promote it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Start thinking for yourself. Why accept such bigoted and repressive nonsense just because some religions promote it?

Are insults all you have to offer?