why is being gay forbidden ?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Beyond "bleeding members", how has the Protestant Church been in "chaos" specifically?

Well, besides the shrinking numbers, there's been schisms and they've basically divorced themselves from Christian tradition. The Episcopalians have gone so far off the deep end that they have married lesbian priests praising abortion as a blessing in sermons.

The Catholic Church is bleeding members in the US as well for the very reason that they are refusing to think rationally about these kinds of issues.

The Catholic Church is fine: 10 Ways the Church Is Rising | CatholicVote.org
Even the left-wing HuffPost has to admit it: Counting U.S. Catholics: Signs of Growth and Decline on the Road to 100 Million | David Briggs

 

[pro4life]

When did you choose to be heterosexual? Did you all of a sudden discover you wanted to be heterosexual? Why would anyone choose to be a member of a group it's still OK to hate and persecute? The "homosexuality is a choice" argument is old, unfounded and as ignorant as ignorant can get. If HIV used to be called Homosexuality Immunodeficiency Virus, it was called that by people of profound and abject ignorance.

The first people to coin the name were the physicians who discovered the disease!

 

[Jainarayan]

The first people to coin the name were the physicians who discovered the disease!

But they don't call it that anymore, do they? They've grown in knowledge. And I'd like names.

And you did not answer my question: "When did you choose to be heterosexual?" Moreover, why would you make that choice and I wouldn't?

If you can't answer these simple questions, then you are simply parroting nonsense, and your comments have no foundation or credibility.

 

[leibowde84]

Well, besides the shrinking numbers, there's been schisms and they've basically divorced themselves from Christian tradition. The Episcopalians have gone so far off the deep end that they have married lesbian priests praising abortion as a blessing in sermons.

The Catholic Church is fine: 10 Ways the Church Is Rising | CatholicVote.org
Even the left-wing HuffPost has to admit it: Counting U.S. Catholics: Signs of Growth and Decline on the Road to 100 Million | David Briggs

You didn't answer my question at all. What specifically are you referring to by "chaos" within the Protestant Church caused by their using reason to rethink doctrine? You mentioned no examples of chaos. You merely mentioned ways that they are changing. That seems like progress to me, but show me the chaos, and I'll be open to argument.

 

[leibowde84]

The first people to coin the name were the physicians who discovered the disease!

The physicians were extremely ignorant and prejudiced at that time when it came to human decency towards homosexuals, just as the majority of the world was. We've progressed quite a bit since then. So, what's your point? Why did you add an exclamation point?

 

[McBell]

The sex abuse issue is a separate topic. As for artificial birth control, maybe if you bothered to study Catholicism's sexual teachings and the philosophy underpinning it, you'd understand it. If anything, you would be better equipped to argue against it from your point of view. Because calling being against condom use "regressive" is an immature way to look at it when you learn the philosophical underpinnings behind the teaching against it. But most progressive types today prefer to be ignorant and make arguments based on selfishness.

How does understanding why a group believes something that is demonstratively harmful make it less harmful?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm well-aware of that movement.

Well...all-righty then.

And the opinions of Aquinas on women and sex roles? Do you agree with him?

 

[McBell]

Either you've been lied to by whatever told you this, or it was renamed because the name was determined to be stupid. Homosexuality has nothing whatsoever with HIV.

Interestingly enough, if you do a google search for Homosexuality Immunodeficiency Virus in quotes all you get are facebook pages and blogs...
Seems he was flat out lied too.
Of course, this is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[McBell]

The first people to coin the name were the physicians who discovered the disease!

I am going to have to have something other than your word on that.
Mostly because I have not been able to find a single thing in support of your claims.

 

[Deidre]

Any religion that breeds hatred, condemnation and discrimination isn't worth following.

If you look at the state of our world, past and present...looks to me like many don't mind those byproducts.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Any religion that breeds hatred, condemnation and discrimination isn't worth following.

Absolutely.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not quite. I don't see any real difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality. The 'sin' is sex outside of marriage, or in other words, lustful sex. I'm saying, if this is what a religion has a problem with, don't deny homosexuals the right to marry. Is that a fallacy?

As far as scriptural marriage is concerned - Genesis 2:24 - it is only between a male and female or man and woman.
Sin in Scripture can be within scriptural marriage. It can be before, during, or after a marriage has ended.
The word translated in English as fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.
So, porneia would be scriptural grounds for a scriptural divorce as per Matthew 5:32; 19:9
Porneia covers all un-scriptural sex even within the marriage arrangement such as sex with an animal being wrong.
We also get the word porn or pornography from the word porneia ( fornication ).
One real difference between hetero and homo would be that only a male and female can reproduce.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I've heard this before, and it provides no explanation beyond "we have to take God's word for it". What about the many abandoned children who need qualified adoptive parents? There aren't nearly enough qualified heterosexual couples to take on that responsibility, so why would God want these children to grow up without loving parents when there are ready and willing homosexual couples eager to take it on. Marriage equality would help this substantial issue. I cannot imagine that God, who I do have faith in, would want to punish these children so.

There is Nothing in Scripture that says or authorizes Christians to interfere with Caesar's activities.
In other words, if ' Caesar ' makes a new law regarding marriage that is ' Caesar's ' business.
If a person wants to become a Christian, then that person personally would refrain from what Scripture says to refrain.
Years ago I think the law would only allow a married couple to adopt.
I know of two single women, sharing a house who never married, and they both adopted children from China.
God did Not create the ' abandoned children ' problem. Humans have created that ' punishment ' problem, so to speak.
Doesn't God want parents to be loving according to Ephesians 5: 24 - 33 ?_______
Wasn't the example of Jesus' foster father Joseph and his mother Mary of loving parents ?______

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Any religion that breeds hatred, condemnation and discrimination isn't worth following.
If you look at the state of our world, past and present...looks to me like many don't mind those byproducts.

Yes, the state of our world, past and especially present looks like those byproducts.
2nd Timothy 3 vs 1-5,13 describes the selfish distorted form of love the world displays.
Whereas the definition of love defined at 1st Corinthians 4-6 shows godly love.
Christians are Not to hate others but love enemies as defined at 1st Corinthians.
That is why Jesus gave the commission to his followers to proclaim the good news of God's kingdom government on an international or global scale as it is being done today. So, coupled with all the badness on earth is good news. The newspapers or media daily reports the bad news of men's kingdoms or governments with No solution. Whereas the Bible talks about Jesus ruling over earth for a thousand years which will be for the benefit of all nations of earth - Revelation 2:22

 

[leibowde84]

There is Nothing in Scripture that says or authorizes Christians to interfere with Caesar's activities.
In other words, if ' Caesar ' makes a new law regarding marriage that is ' Caesar's ' business.
If a person wants to become a Christian, then that person personally would refrain from what Scripture says to refrain.
Years ago I think the law would only allow a married couple to adopt.
I know of two single women, sharing a house who never married, and they both adopted children from China.
God did Not create the ' abandoned children ' problem. Humans have created that ' punishment ' problem, so to speak.
Doesn't God want parents to be loving according to Ephesians 5: 24 - 33 ?_______
Wasn't the example of Jesus' foster father Joseph and his mother Mary of loving parents ?______

You seem to have missed my point. So, I'll make it as simple as possible.

1. There are a lot of orphaned children living in foster homes.
2. There are not enough heterosexual couples to adopt and raise them.
3. Homosexual couples are ready and willing to take on this responsibility.
4. Couples who are not legally married are not able to adopt children in the United States. (China isn't at issue in this discussion, as we are talking about gay-marriage only in the US).
5. Thus, although homosexual couples are ready and willing to help, they will not be able to unless they are given marriage rights.

Simple as that. I never said that you didn't like adoption ... that is ludicrous. I said that it is cruel to fight against marriage equality when these orphaned children will literally have the hope of having parents taken away from them.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You seem to have missed my point. So, I'll make it as simple as possible.
1. There are a lot of orphaned children living in foster homes.
2. There are not enough heterosexual couples to adopt and raise them.
3. Homosexual couples are ready and willing to take on this responsibility.
4. Couples who are not legally married are not able to adopt children in the United States. (China isn't at issue in this discussion, as we are talking about gay-marriage only in the US).
5. Thus, although homosexual couples are ready and willing to help, they will not be able to unless they are given marriage rights.
Simple as that. I never said that you didn't like adoption ... that is ludicrous. I said that it is cruel to fight against marriage equality when these orphaned children will literally have the hope of having parents taken away from them.

Christians do Not fight against 'Caesar's laws '. If ' Caesar ' wants to re-define marriage that is his right to do so.
Yes, those 2 single women were able to adopt. That was still in the 90's, maybe earlier, so perhaps that is No longer an option.
Remember: Scripture says Many would come ' In Jesus' Name ' but prove false according to Matthew chapter 7.
So, if someone claiming to be Christian is fighting against what laws ' Caesar ' makes, then he is a fake (weed/tares ) Christian.

P.S. I know a couple who wanted to adopt and then the birth mother changed her mind and took the child. The couple had ' their son ' for a few years before everything fell apart. They cried a lot, and even concerned because the birth mother had been a drug user. They are now too afraid to try adoption again.

I know of another case where the mother left, and her step-daughter, who was in her late teens, raised the step-mother's son for 9 years before the birth mother surprisingly showed up and took him away. After raising the boy for 9 years the heart-broken step-daughter felt as if she was the boy's mother.

 

[leibowde84]

Christians do Not fight against 'Caesar's laws '. If ' Caesar ' wants to re-define marriage that is his right to do so.
Yes, those 2 single women were able to adopt. That was still in the 90's, maybe earlier, so perhaps that is No longer an option.
Remember: Scripture says Many would come ' In Jesus' Name ' but prove false according to Matthew chapter 7.
So, if someone claiming to be Christian is fighting against what laws ' Caesar ' makes, then he is a fake (weed/tares ) Christian.

I'm not sure whether you or the men who wrote these ancient texts should judge the "Christianess" of anyone else, but that is your own prerogative. That being said, religious marriage is not at issue in any way. "Marriage" as a legal term (which is obviously the term we are discussing as we are talking about gay-marriage recognized by law) is a completely secular one. So, would you say that all of those people who are fighting against gay-marriage "aren't real Christians"?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm not sure whether you or the men who wrote these ancient texts should judge the "Christianess" of anyone else, but that is your own prerogative. That being said, religious marriage is not at issue in any way. "Marriage" as a legal term (which is obviously the term we are discussing as we are talking about gay-marriage recognized by law) is a completely secular one. So, would you say that all of those people who are fighting against gay-marriage "aren't real Christians"?

YES ! Christians have NO right to dictate to secular Caesar.
It is just when ' Caesar ' wants a Christian to personally do something against breaking God's law - Acts 5:29 - then Christians obey God as ruler rather than men. In other words, subjection to 'Caesar' is relative for a Christan whereas subjection to God is absolute.

The symbolic composite ' religious prostitute ' of Revelation chapters 17,18 will remain a potent force attempting to bend kings or political rulers to do Her will. Soon the political ' earth's rulers ' will be fed up with the world's false religious sector ( Babylon the Great ) and will surprisingly turn on Her and attack Her.

 

[sojourner]

As far as scriptural marriage is concerned - Genesis 2:24 - it is only between a male and female or man and woman.
Sin in Scripture can be within scriptural marriage. It can be before, during, or after a marriage has ended.
The word translated in English as fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.
So, porneia would be scriptural grounds for a scriptural divorce as per Matthew 5:32; 19:9
Porneia covers all un-scriptural sex even within the marriage arrangement such as sex with an animal being wrong.
We also get the word porn or pornography from the word porneia ( fornication ).
One real difference between hetero and homo would be that only a male and female can reproduce.

Genesis 2:24 isn't a condemnation of homosexuality or homosexual marriage. Since homosexuality was unknown as an orientation at the time the stories were first told, it only stands to reason that the stories would reflect only what the writers understood (stuff like the sky being a rigid dome separating the air from heaven). As times change and humanity grows in understanding, some ancient thought must be held very gently, or discarded.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Genesis 2:24 isn't a condemnation of homosexuality or homosexual marriage. Since homosexuality was unknown as an orientation at the time the stories were first told, it only stands to reason that the stories would reflect only what the writers understood (stuff like the sky being a rigid dome separating the air from heaven). As times change and humanity grows in understanding, some ancient thought must be held very gently, or discarded.

Please Notice Matthew 19 vs 5-9 because Jesus re-inforced the original scriptural stand for marriage.