Why is homosexuality a sin

[longshanks]

I said procreation is "natures" reason for sex. Man has moved away from natures reasons due to his big brain.But if you look at mans less evolved (mentally that is ) animal cousins its obvious what sex is for.

I assumed by the title of the thread we were talking about people my bad.
plus there are species of ape that have sex to increase bonds in the group.

 

[MBones]

I guess you think I am a left leaning liberal who doesn't have a clue of how you live in the south. But yes I do I went to college in Jackson Tennessee at Lambuth University, so you are wrong on that. I majored in religious studies. And what I came from there is that people are usually ignorant of the topics and scared before they deal with them. Until they deal with them, we can elude that they will be hostile, when they deal with them or have a "close" encounter, they will then have a change of heart, so to say ... And you know what they do. I had a very prejudice girlfriend at college, it was really bad to hear some of the things she said about my brother atheletes, but you know what she came around to love everyone as equals. yeah it might have took my west coast charm, but you know what, after she saw the light of the friendships she had, she warmed up very quickly. And that is all the world needs a bit of education, and a bit of understanding. You are all a bit behind the west coast on many things but you know what you will be there sooner than you think.

 

[rasor]

I guess you think I am a left leaning liberal who doesn't have a clue of how you live in the south. But yes I do I went to college in Jackson Tennessee at Lambuth University, so you are wrong on that. I majored in religious studies. And what I came from there is that people are usually ignorant of the topics and scared before they deal with them. Until they deal with them, we can elude that they will be hostile, when they deal with them or have a "close" encounter, they will then have a change of heart, so to say ... And you know what they do. I had a very prejudice girlfriend at college, it was really bad to hear some of the things she said about my brother atheletes, but you know what she came around to love everyone as equals. yeah it might have took my west coast charm, but you know what, after she saw the light of the friendships she had, she warmed up very quickly. And that is all the world needs a bit of education, and a bit of understanding. You are all a bit behind the west coast on many things but you know what you will be there sooner than you think.

Dear Mbones
For a start I don't live,or hail from the "south" as you put it.In fact I don't even live in the US .I'm also not wrong about wether you are a left leaning liberal, because the thought never even occured to me. But I do love the way you make unsupportable assumptions then treat them as a known fact.As regards my views on Homosexuality I don't really think you know what they are, other than I think that homosexuality is just a mistake in the genetic message.If your reasoning is an example of a graduate from an american college I,m truly amazed.I see you majored in religious studies which of course to an atheist like myself means you majored in something akin to the history of fairy tales
"But yes I do I went to college " ?? Is that English or maybe a west coast local dialect ? Certainly not the grammar one would expect from a university graduate .It should read :But yes I do. (full stop )I went etc etc
As regards to the west coast it sounds to me that you are way behind the times there especially in education (our times anyway).Oh, I forgot you were educated in the "South" weren't you ?.

 

[rasor]

I assumed by the title of the thread we were talking about people my bad.
plus there are species of ape that have sex to increase bonds in the group.

You've got me there "talking about people my bad" what the heck does that mean ?
Ape etc ......... So what ? How many times do I have to say it .I believe procreation is the "PRIME" reason for sex.Nowhere have I claimed it is the ONLY reason.Take your blinkers off and read the posts correctly:thud:

 

[Napoleon]

A few points:

1. Homosexuality is not deemed a sin in any portion of the Tanakh/Old Testament. What is considered a sin is homosexual sex. There is a clear difference between the two; sexuality is a state of being while sex is a behavior.

2. Homosexual sex between men is deemed as a sin in the context of the ceremonial worship of the God of Abraham. Making this distinction in worship was necessary because the Israelites were originally, and remained, pagan/polytheistic for large portion of their history. Homosexual sex between men was a common practice in the ceremonial worship of pagan Gods and the entire point of this law was to make it clear that it was not acceptable in ceremonial practices involving the worship of the God of Abraham.

3. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. In fact, Paul was the only person who did. Keep in mind that some of Paul's views and demands of the faithful were in direct contradiction with the teachings and practices of Jesus. Take his views on women for example. One of Jesus' closest friends and confidants was a woman! She was also given the responsibility, along with the disciples, of carrying on his legacy yet if you read anything Paul has to say about women and the Church you'd think that it never happened.

 

[rasor]

Getting back on track,the homosexual act is only a sin if you believe the bible .If you think the bible is a load of bigotry and prejudice written by primitives a couple of thousand years ago you are in the clear.

 

[sojourner]

The homosexual act is only a sin if you hold modern Western society to the same cultural standards as those of the ancient Middle East.

 

[McBell]

Getting back on track,the homosexual act is only a sin if you believe the bible .If you think the bible is a load of bigotry and prejudice written by primitives a couple of thousand years ago you are in the clear.

The homosexual act is only a sin if you hold modern Western society to the same cultural standards as those of the ancient Middle East.

Homosexual acts are an abomination only if you believe that the verses that dictate as such were spoken by the deity you worship.

 

[Autodidact]

Homosexual acts are an abomination only if you believe that the verses that dictate as such were spoken by the deity you worship.

And that the words in them have been translated correctly.

And even then, only for boys. :ymca:

 

[MBones]

[FONT=&quot]Rasor,
Ouch! That was a very nice reply, actually one of the best that I have seen. A nice, thought out reply, that deserves a response.
Permit me to say that I am sorry for the first reply, I said things that were mostly untrue, why I said those things was to get a gutsy response from someone. I didn't attend college there and was expecting a more unintelligent response. I was trying to bait someone. The fact is I am an Engineer with various degrees, not that it should matter. You, not from the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]US[/FONT][FONT=&quot], is a shock to me. I only thought the closed minded folk from my country had closed minded opinions on gays. But I guess not. My view on the other parts of the world are convoluted I guess. Homosexuality is a mistake in the genetic message… Wow, are you a scientist? Did you come up with that yourself? Explain that with concrete evidence and DNA proof. And for your concern I am an agnostic. Oh I’m sorry do you know what DNA [/FONT]

 

[MBones]

[FONT=&quot]Sally Gunnell? I do not know that term. Name calling and such would only be expected from your type of intelligence. Or if you weren't doing that, I apologize. My statements are such, if you do not except homosexuality, then your are probably in for a shock, most forward thinking countries do now and the US will be one of them in time. Someone who criticizes someone else for their grammar also has a long way to go too. Is this not chat or emails? Or more formal writing? Thank you, I only got an A- in my English classes, you must have done far more better. Break that out, I am sure that my grammatical sentences are not correct, have a field day.. You may feel better about yourself later.
[/FONT]

 

[rasor]

[FONT=&quot]Rasor, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ouch! That was a very nice reply, actually one of the best that I have seen. A nice, thought out reply, that deserves a response. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Permit me to say that I am sorry for the first reply, I said things that were mostly untrue, why I said those things was to get a gutsy response from someone. I didn't attend college there and was expecting a more unintelligent response. I was trying to bait someone. The fact is I am an Engineer with various degrees, not that it should matter. You, not from the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]US[/FONT][FONT=&quot], is a shock to me. I only thought the closed minded folk from my country had closed minded opinions on gays. But I guess not. My view on the other parts of the world are convoluted I guess. Homosexuality is a mistake in the genetic message… Wow, are you a scientist? Did you come up with that yourself? Explain that with concrete evidence and DNA proof. And for your concern I am an agnostic. Oh I’m sorry do you know what DNA [/FONT]

Pretending to be something your not eh ?
Then how do I know I can can trust your latest claim ? The answer is I can't .
Sounds to me you are a bit of a Walter Mitty, so there's no point in debating with a fantasist .
ps I'm also an Engineer,but I have to ask myself, is "also" grammatically correct as it implies that I accept that you are an Engineer too.

pps "Oh I'm sorry do you know what DNA" ??? What the heck are you getting at here.? Is this some sort of shorthand I'm not familiar with ?

 

[Phil Lawton]

[FONT=&quot]Sally Gunnell? I do not know that term. [/FONT]

Sally Gunnell is an athlete - as your profile doesn't show what your gender is, it was a fifty-fifty as to whether I chose the correct sex. It was in reference to your "brother athletes" remark...but now I see you are an engineer. What kind of engineer?

Name calling and such would only be expected from your type of intelligence. Or if you weren't doing that, I apologize.

Firstly, you don't know what my "type of intelligence" is, let alone what to expect of it. Secondly, I wasn't indulging in name calling, merely trying to introduce some levity into the proceedings, so your apology is accepted.

My statements are such, if you do not except homosexuality, then your are probably in for a shock, most forward thinking countries do now and the US will be one of them in time.

I think you mean "if you do not accept homosexuality", rather than "except"...or is that some subtle, double edged statement?

Your statements are a little light on profundity, but I should add that I have lots of gay friends and their preferred sexual practices are no more shocking to me than they appear to be to you.

Someone who criticizes someone else for their grammar also has a long way to go too.

Not when the misuse of the grammar changes the sense in which it is the text is written or makes the text difficult to understand. One single comma can change the meaning of a sentence completely.

Is this not chat or emails? Or more formal writing?

What's the difference? There really is no excuse for bad punctuation at any time.

I only got an A- in my English classes, you must have done far more better.

I simply don't believe you...or the American education system is in a dire condition.

I am sure that my grammatical sentences are not correct, have a field day..

Your suspicions were correct...and shouldn't that be "have a Bakersfield day"?

You may feel better about yourself later.

No need to wait...I feel great about myself right now.

 

[Autodidact]

A few points:

1. Homosexuality is not deemed a sin in any portion of the Tanakh/Old Testament. What is considered a sin is homosexual sex. There is a clear difference between the two; sexuality is a state of being while sex is a behavior.

2. Homosexual sex between men is deemed as a sin in the context of the ceremonial worship of the God of Abraham. Making this distinction in worship was necessary because the Israelites were originally, and remained, pagan/polytheistic for large portion of their history. Homosexual sex between men was a common practice in the ceremonial worship of pagan Gods and the entire point of this law was to make it clear that it was not acceptable in ceremonial practices involving the worship of the God of Abraham.

3. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. In fact, Paul was the only person who did. Keep in mind that some of Paul's views and demands of the faithful were in direct contradiction with the teachings and practices of Jesus. Take his views on women for example. One of Jesus' closest friends and confidants was a woman! She was also given the responsibility, along with the disciples, of carrying on his legacy yet if you read anything Paul has to say about women and the Church you'd think that it never happened.

Very helpful and informative post and if I have grasped this frubal thing, there's a frubal coming your way. I would just add a couple of things:

The OT never mentions lesbianism whatsoever.
The correct translation of the Hebrew and Greek terms is controversial, chiefly because they are used so few times in the Bible. Some people think that the best translation of both terms is more like "male Temple prostitute," and that is the practice which is outlawed.
There is no actual prohibition against lesbianism anywhere in either testament.

 

[Crowley]

" Jesus never said anything about homosexuality."

Jesus never said anything about molesting kids either, or having sex with a horse. Or masturbation.
Homosexuality is a sin simply because God said so. Why is murder a sin? because God said so. Adultery? because God said so. On Sinai God told us what is sin.
Homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God.
In the New testament, murder is still a sin, so is adultery, lying, stealing, bearing false witness, and men lying with men or animals.
Why was the ground Moses stood on holy? Because it did good works? because it paid tithes? It was holy because God said so.
Paul never contradicted Jesus and his teachings were in keeping with the Torah.
Paul knew that Jesus was the Torah.
Sin is the transgression of the law.
The law is what God said.
Therefore homosexuality is a sin and Jesus never changed the law, but fulfilled every law God gave to Israel.

 

[MBones]

Wow, Phil,
You do surprise me. A very concise person that pokes holes at someone else at all times. That is really great. You have picked my sentences clean and obliterated my grammar. You must have been a teacher at some point and if not you should be. Very good in your dissections. You are right on. I have no recourse other that you are very intelligent and did a good job and made me think. Thank you for that.
Best regards,

Bones.
...

 

[MBones]

Phil,

Well let's carry one this converstation. Bakersfield?? What did that mean? I am currently an automation engineer, my education is with chemical and mechanical engineering if that is what you are asking. Not that it should matter. The DNA comment got cut off, it was a reaponse that was to prove my point, show me DNA samples that tell your theory and then I will listen. I am a very science minded engineer, that has worked with biologics for an extended period of time. I have been a scientist and now I am in the engineering field. Not that it should matter, I would hope that you hold the same regard for a lay person as you would someone who has no college background. I work with people everyday who have not had any college classes in their life, and they are some of the most intelligent people I have ever worked with. Especially when you compare them with the high priced engineers I work with everyday.

 

[MBones]

Mr. Crusader,

Yes people are born homosexual. It is a proven scientific fact. So you are wrong there. It is not a learned behavior as you may think.

 

[MBones]

So the genetics of the human race beginning to get weaker explains why people are homosexual? You lost me there. The whole reason why the world or mother earth is weakening is that we are pumping toxic chemicals every day into it. Global warming is not a myth, we are seeing it today. The world is warmer, and that is a fact. The whole ennvironment changing is something we all need to look at. Same sex couples are getting the same racist comments that the black community went through 50 years ago, it just takes time to educate the people to accept someone who is different. It will happen,

 

[Trassin]

Crowly

I would direct you to the post directly above your last one. While you are clearly very certain in your understanding of how certain words in the OT should be translated there are many people that disagree with you.

The correct translation of the Hebrew and Greek terms is controversial, chiefly because they are used so few times in the Bible. Some people think that the best translation of both terms is more like "male Temple prostitute," and that is the practice which is outlawed.