"Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?"

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There is no *reason* to think that an Invisible Pink Unicorn exists, and there is no need for one to exist, but there is a *reason* to think God exists and there is a need for God, even if you are unaware of that need.

Okay, let's stop right there. You claim "there is a need for God." Explain that need.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Actually I was an atheist myself for quite a long period but I had plenty of principles and humanitarian beliefs exactly like yourself so I stand corrected. Atheists do have many very good humanitarian principles such as the ones you mentioned.

My only question is that we are human and make mistakes so what if we are wrong by relying totally on human conscience resulting in incorrect morals and standards being accepted & applied in society that damage us?

Or are we never wrong and society always gets it right?

So what if we are human and make mistakes? Then we have to recover from those mistakes.

The biggest mistake of all, however, is assuming, without any justification at all, that there is some inerrant supply of truth that will keep us from being incorrect. Sure, there might be a god who could supply that, but if that god has not done so in a way that cannot be refuted (and therefore negated), then we will continue to be humans who make mistakes. And that's an extremely powerful argument.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Nobody has the answers to those questions except God, so theologians and priests should not be explaining them.

I wonder why you can't see the obvious, that since God isn't bothering to answer those questions, then it must not be of any concern to God at all that those questions are answered.

And knowing that, the wise man would realize that any further consideration of "what God wants" is a really pointless pursuit...

 

[loverofhumanity]

So what if we are human and make mistakes? Then we have to recover from those mistakes.

The biggest mistake of all, however, is assuming, without any justification at all, that there is some inerrant supply of truth that will keep us from being incorrect. Sure, there might be a god who could supply that, but if that god has not done so in a way that cannot be refuted (and therefore negated), then we will continue to be humans who make mistakes. And that's an extremely powerful argument.

You make some good points. I’m hoping we learn from our past mistakes and establish peace. With peace a lot of resources will be available from monies previously into war to create things like world employment, free Medicare for the poor. Free education and so on. Once war is banished we can heal a lot of problems.

If we can reconcile our differences there is a bright future ahead for humanity.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You make some good points. I’m hoping we learn from our past mistakes and establish peace. With peace a lot of resources will be available from monies previously into war to create things like world employment, free Medicare for the poor. Free education and so on. Once war is banished we can heal a lot of problems.

If we can reconcile our differences there is a bright future ahead for humanity.

I thank you. But I must mention that this thread is about why atheists don't believe in God. And you've just provided another reason...everything needed for us to stop fighting each other, stop hating each other, turn the cost of weapons and hate into the means to support the world...well, that's us. God isn't doing it.

You call yourself "loverofhumanity." I suggest you research a little about humanism.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I thank you. But I must mention that this thread is about why atheists don't believe in God. And you've just provided another reason...everything needed for us to stop fighting each other, stop hating each other, turn the cost of weapons and hate into the means to support the world...well, that's us. God isn't doing it.

You call yourself "loverofhumanity." I suggest you research a little about humanism.

I think that the followers of religion, by not living up to their high standards have let humanity down terribly and caused a lot of mistrust tiwards religion and increased atheism but that can be repaired if they United it’s my humble opinion.

I believe in religious humanism so we do have some things we might agree upon such as the dignity of human life and the betterment of all humanity so I think we are each working for a better world just in a different way.

 

[oldbadger]

Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?"


What I believe is an excellent explanation.

​

Sound reasonable to you? It does to me.

.

Hello Skwim!
Still plodding along with the same old same old stuff, eh?

The Question itself is stupid, mate.
The explanation is ignorant.
It doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Those guys probably think that they're bright but their boat which they're trying to float (metaphor there) is riddled with holes, imo.

The question should have been:- Why is it that SOME atheists don't believe in God?

...and the answer to that is that they cannot bring themselves to admit that there was/is/has to be a reason or cause for the Universe and all that might lay beyond it.

Some atheists know better than others, is all. Which is why so many atheists reading this will be mumbling about not being able to understand this post.

 

[Shantanu]

I think that the followers of religion, by not living up to their high standards have let humanity down terribly and caused a lot of mistrust tiwards religion and increased atheism but that can be repaired if they United it’s my humble opinion.

I believe in religious humanism so we do have some things we might agree upon such as the dignity of human life and the betterment of all humanity so I think we are each working for a better world just in a different way.

Why change the world: it is only an illusion.

 

[blü 2]

I think, actually, it's not that no one (by which I mean believers) has an answer, but rather that the answers shift and sway in such a way as to not be subject to scrutiny.

It seems to me to be a deep problem for religion if to speak of a real God is then and there not to know what you're talking about.

Yet it appears to the case.

 

[Shantanu]

It seems to me to be a deep problem for religion if to speak of a real God is then and there not to know what you're talking about.

Yet it appears to the case.

One needs to be persistent with truth and never accept 'No comment' from God as a viable answer. I would have to set out on ones own again then and find truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, let's stop right there. You claim "there is a need for God." Explain that need.

Man has free will to make choices and act on them but man is completely dependent upon God, whether he realizes it or not. This passage explains it better than I can.

“Also the inaction or the movement of man depend upon the assistance of God. If he is not aided, he is not able to do either good or evil. But when the help of existence comes from the Generous Lord, he is able to do both good and evil; but if the help is cut off, he remains absolutely helpless. This is why in the Holy Books they speak of the help and assistance of God. So this condition is like that of a ship which is moved by the power of the wind or steam; if this power ceases, the ship cannot move at all. Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side, and the power of the steam moves it in the desired direction. If it is directed to the east, it goes to the east; or if it is directed to the west, it goes to the west. This motion does not come from the ship; no, it comes from the wind or the steam.

In the same way, in all the action or inaction of man, he receives power from the help of God; but the choice of good or evil belongs to the man himself.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 249-250​

 

[Trailblazer]

I wonder why you can't see the obvious, that since God isn't bothering to answer those questions, then it must not be of any concern to God at all that those questions are answered.

That might be true, either that or God wants us to try to answer those questions for ourselves.

And knowing that, the wise man would realize that any further consideration of "what God wants" is a really pointless pursuit...

I do not understand how your first comment is related to your second comment.

 

[Shantanu]

Man has free will to make choices and act on them but man is completely dependent upon God, whether he realizes it or not.

Man neither has Free Will as it is constrained by the State, nor is man dependent upon God who is nirguna (emptiness).

 

[blü 2]

One needs to be persistent with truth and never accept 'No comment' from God as a viable answer. I would have to set out on ones own again then and find truth.

But with no useful definition of a real god, no way of telling whether any real suspect is God, or a god, or not, without even a useful definition of 'godness', what real thing would the enquirer actually be looking for?

Does that not make you suspect that the reason there is no such definition is that there is no real God? That God exists only in the imagination of individual humans?

 

[Shantanu]

But with no useful definition of a real god, no way of telling whether any real suspect is God, or a god, or not, without even a useful definition of 'godness', what real thing would the enquirer actually be looking for?

Does that not make you suspect that the reason there is no such definition is that there is no real God? That God exists only in the imagination of individual humans?

What you say is always possible.

 

[ArtieE]

The Question itself is stupid, mate.
The explanation is ignorant.
It doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Those guys probably think that they're bright but their boat which they're trying to float (metaphor there) is riddled with holes, imo.

The question should have been:- Why is it that SOME atheists don't believe in God?

The Question itself is stupid, mate. ALL atheists don't believe in god.

...and the answer to that is that they cannot bring themselves to admit that there was/is/has to be a reason or cause for the Universe and all that might lay beyond it.

Nonsense of course. It is possible that some equivalent of Einstein in some different dimension made the universe. No need for a god. Or maybe there's a natural reason for the existence of the universe.

 

[ArtieE]

I think that the followers of religion, by not living up to their high standards have let humanity down terribly and caused a lot of mistrust tiwards religion and increased atheism but that can be repaired if they United it’s my humble opinion.

What if all theists simply threw away all their different contradictory beliefs in gods and religions and united around this? Universal Declaration of Human Rights

 

[Shantanu]

What if all theists simply threw away all their different contradictory beliefs in gods and religions and united around this? Universal Declaration of Human Rights

I think religions and god-beliefs and universal declaration of human rights should all be abandoned and one should just live until we die naturally at an individual level: let evolution take its course.

 

[ArtieE]

I think religions and god-beliefs and universal declaration of human rights should all be abandoned and one should just live until we die naturally at an individual level: let evolution take its course.

Evolution has led to all the different god beliefs and religions and the universal declaration of human rights. Now could be the time to throw away all the god beliefs and religions and let logic, reason and common sense and intellect unite us under the declaration of humans rights instead.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Man has free will to make choices and act on them but man is completely dependent upon God, whether he realizes it or not. This passage explains it better than I can.

“Also the inaction or the movement of man depend upon the assistance of God. If he is not aided, he is not able to do either good or evil. But when the help of existence comes from the Generous Lord, he is able to do both good and evil; but if the help is cut off, he remains absolutely helpless. This is why in the Holy Books they speak of the help and assistance of God. So this condition is like that of a ship which is moved by the power of the wind or steam; if this power ceases, the ship cannot move at all. Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side, and the power of the steam moves it in the desired direction. If it is directed to the east, it goes to the east; or if it is directed to the west, it goes to the west. This motion does not come from the ship; no, it comes from the wind or the steam.

In the same way, in all the action or inaction of man, he receives power from the help of God; but the choice of good or evil belongs to the man himself.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 249-250​

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but there is no answer here whatever. And yet, it also contains within it the seeds of the destruction of your belief, in that it seems to say that without God's help, nobody could have done evil, or good.

And the analogy is terrible in your passage. To suggest that the ship cannot move without the wind, but that the rudder can, once the wind is supplied, is simply begging the question.

Simplistic, even childish, is how I see that argument.