"Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?"

[Trailblazer]

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but there is no answer here whatever. And yet, it also contains within it the seeds of the destruction of your belief, in that it seems to say that without God's help, nobody could have done evil, or good.

How does that destroy my belief?

And the analogy is terrible in your passage. To suggest that the ship cannot move without the wind, but that the rudder can, once the wind is supplied, is simply begging the question.

The rudder cannot move the ship without the wind. The rudder moves the ship in the desired direction, but only when the wind is supplied.
The rudder is human free will, the wind is God.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How does that destroy my belief?

Oh, it doesn't destroy your belief...it only calls into question whether you understand what you believe at all.

The rudder cannot move the ship without the wind. The rudder moves the ship in the desired direction, but only when the wind is supplied.
The rudder is human free will, the wind is God.

Once again, nothing but fanciful thinking, wrapped in a tenuous and uncorroborated metaphor. You suppose 2 forces, and then decide "who" is in control of each...but you couldn't provide even the tiniest bit of evidence for any of it.

But no matter...all sorts of religions have been doing the same thing forever, and none of them ever produces anything more than comforting pablum...but with all sorts of different flavours. And I find all of them to be without any real basis for belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, it doesn't destroy your belief...it only calls into question whether you understand what you believe at all.

What's is it that you think I do not understand?

Once again, nothing but fanciful thinking, wrapped in a tenuous and uncorroborated metaphor. You suppose 2 forces, and then decide "who" is in control of each...but you couldn't provide even the tiniest bit of evidence for any of it.

I did not present the passage in an effort to provide edidence.

You said: "Okay, let's stop right there. You claim "there is a need for God." Explain that need."
I was only explaining why we need God... God is like the wind that allows the ship to move.

 

[joelr]

Man has free will to make choices and act on them but man is completely dependent upon God, whether he realizes it or not. This passage explains it better than I can.

“Also the inaction or the movement of man depend upon the assistance of God. If he is not aided, he is not able to do either good or evil. But when the help of existence comes from the Generous Lord, he is able to do both good and evil; but if the help is cut off, he remains absolutely helpless. This is why in the Holy Books they speak of the help and assistance of God. So this condition is like that of a ship which is moved by the power of the wind or steam; if this power ceases, the ship cannot move at all. Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side, and the power of the steam moves it in the desired direction. If it is directed to the east, it goes to the east; or if it is directed to the west, it goes to the west. This motion does not come from the ship; no, it comes from the wind or the steam.

In the same way, in all the action or inaction of man, he receives power from the help of God; but the choice of good or evil belongs to the man himself.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 249-250​

No your quote was far better than that terrible metaphor. He is a bad writer.
How does one fathom that people cannot do good or evil without god?

Why did humans get along fine for 200,000 years? All animals do acts of good and bad and we see similar behavior in humans as well.
So we have a natural explanation for behavior, we don't need to add a magic friend?

 

[joelr]

What I believe is an excellent explanation.



.

I don't think all atheists don't believe in god in the literal sense. Do they know if there is some type of god/creator behind the universe or multiverse? Many will say "I do not know".
The "god" they don't believe in is the personal man-made concepts of god.
Like the OT god. We can see in history the rise and creation of this god. It isn't a big mystery. Yahweh was a warrior who had a girlfriend goddess.
The "one true god of gods" comes from a solar myth in Egypt, later synchronized onto Moses and his god.
It's a myth character who was later elevated to "the" god? We already know this happened, it's not tricky to figure it out?

If some creator created the universe, cool, it still was not an Egyptian divine warrior and his GF. The creator god does not send us books. We're past this.

 

[Trailblazer]

No your quote was far better than that terrible metaphor. He is a bad writer.

His job was not to be a writer.

How does one fathom that people cannot do good or evil without god?

Because we cannot do anything without the assistance of God.

Why did humans get along fine for 200,000 years? All animals do acts of good and bad and we see similar behavior in humans as well.

Humans never got along without God because God existed long before humans evolved.

Animals do not do acts of good and bad because animals have no free will. Animals act upon instincts, they do not make moral choices.

So we have a natural explanation for behavior, we don't need to add a magic friend?

You can believe the natural explanation or the God explanation.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Oh, it doesn't destroy your belief...it only calls into question whether you understand what you believe at all.

Once again, nothing but fanciful thinking, wrapped in a tenuous and uncorroborated metaphor. You suppose 2 forces, and then decide "who" is in control of each...but you couldn't provide even the tiniest bit of evidence for any of it.

But no matter...all sorts of religions have been doing the same thing forever, and none of them ever produces anything more than comforting pablum...but with all sorts of different flavours. And I find all of them to be without any real basis for belief.

So s they say, "Let the dead bury the dead".

And you exemplify that wonderfully!

I find the world around me full or wonder and mystery that begs to be explored, it excites my soul and gives me a zest for life. But you are so dead inside you won't even open the door to see anything outside of your tiny closed minded world.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I don't think all atheists don't believe in god in the literal sense. Do they know if there is some type of god/creator behind the universe or multiverse? Many will say "I do not know".
The "god" they don't believe in is the personal man-made concepts of god.
Like the OT god. We can see in history the rise and creation of this god. It isn't a big mystery. Yahweh was a warrior who had a girlfriend goddess.
The "one true god of gods" comes from a solar myth in Egypt, later synchronized onto Moses and his god.
It's a myth character who was later elevated to "the" god? We already know this happened, it's not tricky to figure it out?

If some creator created the universe, cool, it still was not an Egyptian divine warrior and his GF. The creator god does not send us books. We're past this.

I've heard many atheists and others state how they don't believe in any god, or some left thinking that is a MAN, with both camps believing that "god" is this most evil wrathful Deity, all because of the Christian "god" myth in the bible.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What if all theists simply threw away all their different contradictory beliefs in gods and religions and united around this? Universal Declaration of Human Rights

What atheists and humanists should remember is that their principles and beliefs I have discovered, all come from religions and God. A lot of what the humanist say they believe in can be traced back to the Ten Commandments and even Hinduism and other religions such as Christianity and Buddhism before humanism existed.

So although humanists like to say they divorce themselves completely from religion and God their ideas, concepts and beliefs are all taken from religions and Holy Books in my humble opinion and not originally invented by them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Question itself is stupid, mate. ALL atheists don't believe in god. Nonsense of course. It is possible that some equivalent of Einstein in some different dimension made the universe. No need for a god. Or maybe there's a natural reason for the existence of the universe.

Artie. You don’t seem to have quoted any of my post so I have no idea what you’re referring to?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why change the world: it is only an illusion.

Not so much to change the world as to rid us of the illusion that it is reality.

 

[Shantanu]

Not so much to change the world as to rid us of the illusion that it is reality.

We do not wish to rid us of the illusion because it is God-created: we need to accommodate that in our lives, to my way of thinking. So I do everything possible to live a wholesome life while I am alive. I am God in a human form. I became God through the yoga of satya-advaita. I do not do anything without checking my theories with God to ensure I am on the right path of truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We do not wish to rid us of the illusion because it is God-created: we need to accommodate that in our lives, to my way of thinking. So I do everything possible to live a wholesome life while I am alive. I am God in a human form. I became God through the yoga of satya-advaita. I do not do anything without checking my theories with God to ensure I am on the right path of truth.

I have been through what you call Satya- Advaita and God confirmed me in the Truth.

It came after questioning relentlessly everything and I suppose when God found I was a true seeker of truth He confirmed me in the truth.

 

[Shantanu]

I have been through what you call Satya- Advaita and God confirmed me in the Truth.

It came after questioning relentlessly everything and I suppose when God found I was a true seeker of truth He confirmed me in the truth.

I am pleased that He has confirmed you in the truth; for I was delusional in thinking that for myself. I keep searching so I checked with God this morning and am reviewing my truths accordingly. For one thing, I do not know for certain that God creates life and terminates life by switching off the life-support system of an individual when He is fed up of a human being or an animal or plant. Do you know this?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am pleased that He has confirmed you in the truth; for I was delusional in thinking that for myself. I keep searching so I checked with God this morning and am reviewing my truths accordingly. For one thing, I do not know for certain that God creates life and terminates life by switching off the life-support system of an individual when He is fed up of a human being or an animal or plant. Do you know this?

I think nothing happens without God’s knowledge. And that God does as He pleases so He can allow it or deny it as He pleases.

 

[Shantanu]

I think nothing happens without God’s knowledge. And that God does as He pleases so He can allow it or deny it as He pleases.

I will go along with that: but I would also state that since we are human beings we need to appreciate that and live our own lives free of God to let Him get on with His business until we individually seek His help with acquiring knowledge to form the basis of our human existence. That is the Hindu way (Satyameva Jayate) unless a Hindu corrects me otherwise.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I will go along with that: but I would also state that since we are human beings we need to appreciate that and live our own lives free of God to let Him get on with His business until we individually seek His help with acquiring knowledge to form the basis of our human existence. That is the Hindu way (Satyameva Jayate) unless a Hindu corrects me otherwise.

God has given me so many gifts I can never bring myself to ask for anything worldly or otherwise. I am just grateful to God every second and try to show it in my deeds but nothing whatsoever can ever repay God for giving me the gift of knowing Him.

 

[Shantanu]

God has given me so many gifts I can never bring myself to ask for anything worldly or otherwise. I am just grateful to God every second and try to show it in my deeds but nothing whatsoever can ever repay God for giving me the gift of knowing Him.

I am pleased you know God: I do not hope to be in the same position one day before I die: all I want to know from Him is how to survive on this planet with my dignity in tact. Being God as a human being is undignified, as creation is sacrosanct. This means I must not play God to any other human being as the most undignified thing I could do. I learnt that from experience.

 

[ArtieE]

What atheists and humanists should remember is that their principles and beliefs I have discovered, all come from religions and God.

No they don't.

A lot of what the humanist say they believe in can be traced back to the Ten Commandments and even Hinduism and other religions such as Christianity and Buddhism before humanism existed.

So although humanists like to say they divorce themselves completely from religion and God their ideas, concepts and beliefs are all taken from religions and Holy Books in my humble opinion and not originally invented by them.

LOL. People don't want to be cheated on or murdered or lied to or stolen from. So they make rules against it. Long before any religions were invented. Then they take those rules and put them in religion and the Ten Commandments. Then they play on your survival instinct and say there's a god who can give you eternal happy life if you keep the rules and send you to hell if you don't. Social engineering at its best.

 

[ArtieE]

We do not wish to rid us of the illusion because it is God-created: we need to accommodate that in our lives, to my way of thinking. So I do everything possible to live a wholesome life while I am alive. I am God in a human form. I became God through the yoga of satya-advaita. I do not do anything without checking my theories with God to ensure I am on the right path of truth.

So you are God in human form and became God and are checking your theories with yourself?