Why is there anything at all?

[Feedmysheep]

The next elephant in the room is the question of how the different religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam consider the sciences and the sciences of evolution and the history of the universe when they are divided over the interpretation of the Pentateuch, and wide spread rejection of science.

I have some time for response now.
Let's cut to the chase. Do you have some rigorous chemical, physical, or mathermatical formula that
conclusively demonstrates the falsehood of this sentence?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1)

How about this one - verse 2 -

But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (v.2 RcV)

Now most English versions do not translate the Hebrew word there "became" as in
"the earth became waste and emptiness". However I am told it well could be rendered that way
as it is the same word translated "became" indicating an act of divine judgment in Genesis 19:26 -

But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

There are in Genesis chapter one 29 more verses to go. I don't think any of them are unscientific.
I do think the language is pre-scientific. I mean certian utterances are scientifically imprecise according
to modern standards. But so also is the saying "I saw the sunrise this morning." To be scientifically precise
the sun did not rise rather the earth rotated.

Let's take a popular objection. How could God create the sun on some fourth day?
But it does not have to be the word create there but made. And it could mean "made" to appear
to the seer. The clouds parted and the stars and sun and moon were made to appear to the seer
on a fourth day.


And God said, Let there be light-bearers in the expanse of heaven to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

Gn 1:15 And let them be light-bearers in the expanse of heaven to give light on the earth; and it was so.

Gn 1:16 And God made the two great light-bearers, the greater light-bearer to rule the day and the lesser light-bearer to rule the night, and the stars.

Gn 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of heaven to give light on the earth

Gn 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night and to separate the light from the darkness, and God saw that it was good.

Gn 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

So I have no problem with the Bible's discription of what the seer observed as the
revelation of God's creation and making, formation, preparation of a world for human
beings is conveyed.

I won't argue for the Quran because I don't know it.
Judaism's Hebrew Bible is the "Old Testament" of the Bible. So these comments
can apply to Judaism as well as the Christian faith imo.

In fact I find no passage definitely saying God created the unverse in six days.
I find that it says God MADE it in six days. The word is also used for trimming nails or preparing
a calf for a meal or trimming a beard. It does not have to mean created out of nothing.

For in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, (Exo. 20:11)

That to me leaves room for an understanding of a destruction and reconstruction of a world for man
which God MADE rather than CREATED in six days. Strict "Young Earth Creationists" would disagree with me. But it is interesting that modern science theories of destruction and mass extinctions are surmised as
having occurred in the ancient past. We here of killer comets, killer meteors, killer gas coming up from the ocean and other theorized catastrophic events.

Are we so sure then the Scripture is incorrect that - But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (v.2 RcV) ?

Anyway, I am not persuaded that modern science theories have at all rendered the revelatory
language of the Bible positively impossible in the least.

The authors of the Pentateuch, New Testament and the Church Fathers believed it is a literal history of our physical universe and humanity, which is an ancient worldview in total conflict with science.

My view is different. I think science theories often inch closer to what the Bible reveals.
I look at science with interest but not as a determenant on what I could only know by trusting faith.
No one was there to witness the creation of time, space, matter, energy. It is not an event which
we can repeat in any laboratory, even CERN.

And 90 years of trying has not resulted in selecting by breeding a living organism to gradually
develop into a totally different kind of organism. Evolution theory of the macro kind has not been
observed. Dogs remain dogs, bacteria remain bacteria, finches remain finches though difference
in characteristics may be intelligently channeled by intelligent design of researchers.

It a big subject. And much that passes for scientific theory is really just religion.
And if some gradualism has taken place to turn a ameoba eventually into a carrot, a whale, a chimp, a pine tree, a human being - that I would count as miraculous.

Like if a frog turns into a prince that is called a fairy tale.
But if a frog turns into a prince over the course of 20 millions years, well, that's called science.
I don't buy it. But let them keep studying to see what they can figure out.

The Trinity

In this age when we are told to believe in things like the multiverse or the curvature of space or and such
a three-one God should not be impossible to believe.

I think when finite humans encounter a Person who is uncreated and of infinite power, wisdom, knowlege outside of all creation, some very mysterious paradoxes with this God are not unlikely to manifest themselves to us.

I count this to be like a two dimensional being encounter a three dimensional being.
Something beyond our ability to completely understand is likely.

Fortunately we can enjoy God's richness of love, presence and fulfillment without being
able to explain God with finite human minds and limited human language entirely.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have some time for response now.
Let's cut to the chase. Do you have some rigorous chemical, physical, or mathermatical formula that
conclusively demonstrates the falsehood of this sentence?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1)

How about this one - verse 2 -

But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (v.2 RcV)

Now most English versions do not translate the Hebrew word there "became" as in
"the earth became waste and emptiness". However I am told it well could be rendered that way
as it is the same word translated "became" indicating an act of divine judgment in Genesis 19:26 -

But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

There are in Genesis chapter one 29 more verses to go. I don't think any of them are unscientific.
I do think the language is pre-scientific. I mean certian utterances are scientifically imprecise according
to modern standards. But so also is the saying "I saw the sunrise this morning." To be scientifically precise
the sun did not rise rather the earth rotated.

Let's take a popular objection. How could God create the sun on some fourth day?
But it does not have to be the word create there but made. And it could mean "made" to appear
to the seer. The clouds parted and the stars and sun and moon were made to appear to the seer
on a fourth day.


And God said, Let there be light-bearers in the expanse of heaven to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

Gn 1:15 And let them be light-bearers in the expanse of heaven to give light on the earth; and it was so.

Gn 1:16 And God made the two great light-bearers, the greater light-bearer to rule the day and the lesser light-bearer to rule the night, and the stars.

Gn 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of heaven to give light on the earth

Gn 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night and to separate the light from the darkness, and God saw that it was good.

Gn 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

So I have no problem with the Bible's discription of what the seer observed as the
revelation of God's creation and making, formation, preparation of a world for human
beings is conveyed.

I won't argue for the Quran because I don't know it.
Judaism's Hebrew Bible is the "Old Testament" of the Bible. So these comments
can apply to Judaism as well as the Christian faith imo.

In fact I find no passage definitely saying God created the unverse in six days.
I find that it says God MADE it in six days. The word is also used for trimming nails or preparing
a calf for a meal or trimming a beard. It does not have to mean created out of nothing.

For in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, (Exo. 20:11)

That to me leaves room for an understanding of a destruction and reconstruction of a world for man
which God MADE rather than CREATED in six days. Strict "Young Earth Creationists" would disagree with me. But it is interesting that modern science theories of destruction and mass extinctions are surmised as
having occurred in the ancient past. We here of killer comets, killer meteors, killer gas coming up from the ocean and other theorized catastrophic events.

Are we so sure then the Scripture is incorrect that - But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters. (v.2 RcV) ?

Anyway, I am not persuaded that modern science theories have at all rendered the revelatory
language of the Bible positively impossible in the least.

All you have done is confirm the fact that the ancient mythology of Creation in Genesis is unbelievably in conflict the very basic knowledge of science,

My view is different. I think science theories often inch closer to what the Bible reveals.

Unbelievably false.

I look at science with interest but not as a determenant on what I could only know by trusting faith.
No one was there to witness the creation of time, space, matter, energy. It is not an event which
we can repeat in any laboratory, even CERN.

Terrible intentional ignorance of basic high school science.

And 90 years of trying has not resulted in selecting by breeding a living organism to gradually
develop into a totally different kind of organism. Evolution theory of the macro kind has not been
observed. Dogs remain dogs, bacteria remain bacteria, finches remain finches though difference
in characteristics may be intelligently channeled by intelligent design of researchers.

Even worse intentional ignorance of science clinging to ancient mythology without provenance.

It a big subject. And much that passes for scientific theory is really just religion.
And if some gradualism has taken place to turn a ameoba eventually into a carrot, a whale, a chimp, a pine tree, a human being - that I would count as miraculous.

Like if a frog turns into a prince that is called a fairy tale.
But if a frog turns into a prince over the course of 20 millions years, well, that's called science.
I don't buy it. But let them keep studying to see what they can figure out.

You asked for documentation of the conflicts I gave them to you

In this age when we are told to believe in things like the multiverse or the curvature of space or and such
a three-one God should not be impossible to believe.

Not impossible to believe, but given the inconsistent conflicts in ancient religions there is no objective way to determine if any one is true

I think when finite humans encounter a Person who is uncreated and of infinite power, wisdom, knowledge outside of all creation, some very mysterious paradoxes with this God are not unlikely to manifest themselves to us.

I count this to be like a two dimensional being encounter a three dimensional being.
Something beyond our ability to completely understand is likely.

Fortunately we can enjoy God's richness of love, presence and fulfillment without being
able to explain God with finite human minds and limited human language entirely.

This, of course, is what you believe, but there is no objective way to justify these conflicting ancient beliefs

 

[shunyadragon]

My comment was in response to this comment:

​

I used the term 'empirical' in the broadest possible sense, to include simply our experiences. In other words, our reasonings and our expectations that derive from them are not tested by logic but by our experience of them having held true. If you reserve the use of the term 'empiracl' as a synonym for proper scientific inquiry, that is fine and duly noted.

I would use the term in that manner as properly defined,

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Thanks for the words, good information for all, and in logic and rational to me: we know not to preach and we know through the Knowledge of The Tree of Good and Evil to only judge ourselves and not others through all's council.

Empirical data is information that is gathered through observation or experimentation and is a key part of the scientific process. It is objective and unbiased because it is based on evidence and tested to be true. To me in logic and faith, nothing defiled will enter the New Kingdom and there will not exist a chance of failure in Heaven having no empirical data and no more testing for we will be logically and rationally and faithfully Confirmed and re-Sanctified in the will of creation with no chance of failure. Only fulfilled eternal love.

To me in logic and rationality, the real intelligence of creation will not contain “empirical data”. The infallible intelligence of creation will not contain the chance to fail. The logic in the intelligence of fulfilled creation will not contain choice or any internal temptation to fail. What becomes from the failed intelligence is in the failed spirit only to have the freedom to choose love or not. Once the spirit of Love is chosen the choice become only the Most Love for all as one in being in logic and rationale from the Faith of Abraham fulfilled through the Christ for His Passion. Fulfilled creation and the intelligence of creation is delivered from the Holy Spirit Person through the Person of Jesus becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible in mind and body in the Christ for all mankind in being is what becomes glorified and transfigured and shared in all mankind and is the Holy Spirit Will of creation becoming united.

To me the logic in the truth of the intelligence of creation is in the fact that the story which is the logic and rationale and the faith that never changes. The truthful story of salvation becomes from created, and becoming and becoming again. Born again and saved to me in logic never fails in rationale and follows the Faith of Abraham and Isaac, Sarah, Haggar and Ishmael and John the Baptist, the greatest born among men yet the least in Heaven, and Christ whom John Baptized from born transformed immortality and incorruptibility for the death, descention, resurrection and reborn for glorification and transfiguration of the "Firstborn" of all creation back to the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven for all mankind, all through the created from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the body becoming and becoming again. We know St Paul has it right on The Pentecost of The Gentiles when St. Peter said, "Who would not Baptize those St. Paul Baptized with The Holy Spirit"?

In all cases the logic and rationale and faith becomes and follows from the Trinity of the Godhead and applies to the logic and rationale and faith of Abraham from the Trinity of the body created becoming and becoming again through the Body of God united in being as, from Him, Through Him and For Him, and to Him be Glory forever.

Logically we know to keep open the doors for all, we know we don't want to confuse the Words and block-off and remain separated and wall any mankind and hide behind any divisions. In logic and faith unity becomes in all mankind as on in being to have mental happiness and mental joy and love and to be well for all in the creation and becoming and becoming again through His Passion from Fulfilled Eternal Love for all souls, as spirits manifesting through the flesh for the souls of all creation, becoming again.

Born again and saved logically and rationally can be presented so that even a child can understand it so we may know, "Salvation is logically and rationally true." We are born again and saved through all of the logical "Wondrous Mysteries of the Faith" in the Christ becoming again, glorified and transfigured for all mankind through the Christ in Man, the intelligence of Creation in the Flesh becoming in all mankind, glorified and transfigured.

In three line logically and rationally, salvation is in the logic of the Kingdom of the Divine Will of Creation logically and rationally and is to me in logic and rationality becoming, "What would Jesus do in all cases becoming the intelligence in Fulfilled Creation."
1. From Created mortal and corrupt from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being, created by The Person of The Father and God.
2: We become re-born Baptized, sanctified immortal and incorruptible through the Person of Jesus becoming the Mind of Creation in the intelligence of The Holy Spirit from the Word becomes Flesh in Human's all Son's of God, conceived from the Person of the Holy Spirit and God becoming through The Christ in all mankind.
3: And we become again through Penance and Sacrifice, and in Communion with Him, absolved of sin, and forgiven through the words of Absolution and in Penance and Sacrifice we are Confirmed and saved, re-Sanctified and glorified and transfigured into the image of the Creator and God for The Father God.

To me in logic and rationality and in all faith, no one one the planet has ever been able to explain the logic and rationality of salvation through the becomings He can to do through the wondrous mysteries of The Faith. Here logically is the explanation for all, given so that even a child can understand His Passion. Try it as a test today, teach all how to become in logic and rationality, born again saved presented here today in the script, the writing enclosed through out the page presented here. I don't want to be wrong and again for the sake of The New Heaven we pray for all mankind to become again just like God, Our Brother delivered from the Immaculate Conception and Queen of Heaven, Mary, when Hs said, from th cross "Ecce Mater tua," Our Mother in the incorruptible and immortal spirit and flesh through the Virgin Birth of The Christ as Jesus and God, in logic and rationality and through the Faith of Abraham we become.

The logic and rationality of the Trinity becomes from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being the Body of Christ in all mankind from created becoming transformed and and becoming again transfigured collectively by The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit persons in Person respectively each God, separate and equal in power and one God in being, in union with all mankind all becoming again united in One God in being together.

If my logic and rationality is as right, then what is right about salvation that one can ponder forward for all in the message of logic and truth and faith? We can know through logic and rationality, What God did come to do. To me the question becomes from, Why is there anything at all? to the becoming of the intelligence of creation in all mankind, in fulfilled eternal love through His Passion created, becoming and becoming again unfailing.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Martin]

Big bang, innit.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

"First i didn't have the Will to carry on." Seal

I know, somtime I say like "Stop it" I am so embassased, but thanks so much, or I'm not that smart and I am a little shy sometimes, but I don't really mean for you to stop it, but carry forward the New Ark delivering the New Living Sacrifice in the New Temple of the Living God in the Body of Christ becoming again in all mankind fulfileld eternal love through His Passion and we know to carry it properly, because the faith requires that we bring it for all.

For all to Bring

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
There is no greater work even possible than passing on the logic of the Kingdom of The Divine Will of Creation

 

[RestlessSoul]

Big bang, innit.

Apparently. But then how and why was the universe born with -0- entropy, or near perfect order?

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Creation is the Big Bang of chaos becoming fulfilled creation order manifested in becoming again transfigured "Perfect Order" Heaven. We become manifested by the selected spirit, and gloriously manifested and transfigured in only the Holy Spirit. Mainfestation in through the Will of The Holy Spirit selected from manifestion from the Holy Spirit through the New Creation for the becoming of Glorification in the image of the Creator God for The Father.

James and Peter and John witnessed the Transfiguraton and were told not to talk about it until after His Baptized unto death and resurrection glorification and transfiguration with Moses and Elijah disappearing in a cloud while Peter was asking, "Shall I make three tents....?" and even before Peter could stop speaking, Moses and Elijah disappared in the clouds when Jesus said, "Make One Tent." One would have had to have been there to believe it almost, but... James and Peter and John all speak of the Transfiguration in their Gospels.

To me in logic, we become transfigured into the selected spirit at judgement and become glorisously transfigured into the image of the Creator God for The Father only through the Power of The Confirmed and re-Sanctified selected Holy Spirit Person in Being to become again, gloriously Transfigured.

To me in logic and rationale and faith, Creation is created and becoming and becoming again, through logic and rationale and faith from the four most powerful words in logic and rationale and faith in the Bible, "The Word becomes Flesh" as The Christ in all mankind becoming again.

I'm thinking, logic and rationale, to understand, with information found and seen through logic:
Entropy applies universally to inanimate objects, meaning that all physical systems naturally tend towards increased disorder or randomness over time, regardless of whether they are living or non-living; essentially, left alone, things will naturally move from a more ordered state to a more chaotic one.

Born, mortal and corrupt, the first creation and universe allows freedom for choice to choose love or not, with internal temptation for choice and failure to become again through manifestation of the correct choice and the Holy Spirit will of creation, infallible, unable to choose or fail, with becoming again no chaos no choice to fail or choose, choice will be removed for no chance of failure, becoming undefiled. Only fulfilled eternal love, void of fallible creation, fulfilled becoming infallible with no chance of failure, fulfilled, in logic and rationality and through the faith of Abraham, in logic through perfect order.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[shunyadragon]

Peace to all,

Thanks for the words, good information for all, and in logic and rational to me: we know not to preach and we know through the Knowledge of The Tree of Good and Evil to only judge ourselves and not others through all's council.

Empirical data is information that is gathered through observation or experimentation and is a key part of the scientific process. It is objective and unbiased because it is based on evidence and tested to be true. To me in logic and faith, nothing defiled will enter the New Kingdom and there will not exist a chance of failure in Heaven having no emperical data and no more testing for we will be logically and rationally and faithfully Confirmed and re-Sanctified in the will of creation with no chance of failure. Only fulfilled eternal love.

To me in logic and rationality, the real intelligence of creation will not contain “empirical data”. The infallible intelligence of creation will not contain the chance to fail. The logic in the intelligence of fulfilled creation will not contain choice or any internal temptation to fail. What becomes from the failed intelligence is in the failed spirit only to have the freedom to choose love or not. Once the spirit of Love is chosen the choice become only the Most Love for all as one in being in logic and rationale from the Faith of Abraham fulfilled through the Christ for His Passion. Fulfilled creation and the intelligence of creation is delivered from the Holy Spirit Person through the Person of Jesus becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible in mind and body in the Christ for all mankind in being is what becomes glorified and transfigured and shared in all mankind and is the Holy Spirit Will of creation becoming united.

To me the logic in the truth of the intelligence of creation is in the fact that the story which is the logic and rationale and the faith that never changes. The truthful story of salvation becomes from created, and becoming and becoming again. Born again and saved to me in logic never fails in rationale and follows the Faith of Abraham and Isaac, Sarah, Haggar and Ismahel and John the Baptist, the greatest born amoung men yet the least in Heaven, and Christ whom John Baptized from born transformed immortality and incorruptibility for the death, descention, resurrection and reborn for glorification and transfiguration of the "Firstborn" of all creation back to the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven for all mankind, all through the created from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the body becoming and becoming again. We know St Paul has it right on The Pentecost of The Gentiles when St. Peter said, "Who would not Baptise those St. Paul Baptized with The Holy Spirit"?

In all cases the logic and rationale and faith becomes and follows from the Trinity of the Godhead and applies to the logic and rationale and faith of Abraham from the Trinity of the body created becoming and becoming again through the Body of God united in being as, from Him, Through Him and For Him, and to Him be Glory forever.

Logically we know to keep open the doors for all, we know we don't want to confuse the Words and block-off and remain separated and wall any mankind and hide behind any divisions. In logic and faith unity becomes in all mankind as on in being to have mental happiness and mental joy and love and to be well for all in the creation and becoming and becoming again through His Passion from Fulfilled Eternal Love for all souls, as spirits manifesting through the flesh for the souls of all creation, becoming again.

Born again and saved logically and rationally can be presented so that even a child can understand it so we may know, "Salvation is logically and rationally true." We are born again and saved through all of the logical "Wondrous Mysteries of the Faith" in the Christ becoming again, glorified and transfigured for all mankind through the Christ in Man, the intelligence of Creation in the Flesh becoming in all mankind, glorified and transfigured.

In three line logically and rationally, salvation is in the logic of the Kingdom of the Divine Will of Creation logically and rationally and is to me in logic and rationality becoming, "What would Jesus do in all cases becoming the intelligence in Fulfilled Creation."
1. From Created mortal and corrupt from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being, created by The Person of The Father and God.
2: We become re-born Baptized, sanctified immortal and incorruptible through the Person of Jesus becoming the Mind of Creation in the intelligence of The Holy Spirit from the Word becomes Flesh in Human's all Son's of God, conceived from the Person of the Holy Spirit and God becoming through The Christ in all mankind.
3: And we become again through Penance and Sacrifice, and in Communion with Him, absolved of sin, and forgiven through the words of Absolution and in Penance and Sacrifice we are Confirmed and saved, re-Sanctified and glorified and transfigured into the image of the Creator and God for The Father God.

To me in logic and rationality and in all faith, no one one the planet has ever been able to explain the logic and rationality of salvation through the becomings He can to do through the wondrous mysteries of The Faith. Here logically is the explaination for all, given so that even a child can understand His Passion. Try it as a test today, teach all how to become in logic and rationality, born again saved presented here today in the script, the writing enclosed through out the page presented here. I don't want to be wrong and again for the sake of The New Heaven we pray for all mankind to become again just like God, Our Brother delivered from the Immaculate Conception and Queen of Heaven, Mary, when Hs said, from th cross "Ecce Mater tua," Our Mother in the incorruptible and immortal spirit and flesh through the Virgin Birth of The Christ as Jesus and God, in logic and rationality and through the Faith of Abraham we become.

The logic and rationality of the Trinity becomes from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being the Body of Christ in all mankind from created becoming transformed and and becoming again transfigured collectively by The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit persons in Person respectively each God, separate and equal in power and one God in being, in union with all mankind all becoming again united in One God in being together.

If my logic and rationality is as right, then what is right about salvation that one can ponder forward for all in the message of logic and truth and faith? We can know through logic and rationality, What God did come to do. To me the question becomes from, Why is there anything at all? to the becoming of the intelligence of creation in all mankind, in fulfilled eternal love through His Passion created, becoming and becoming again unfailing.

Peace always,
Stephen

Another rambling meaningless post that abuse the meaning and purpose of logic to justify an ancient mythology.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Thanks Sunyadragon, I studied mythology in HS and was overwhelmed in time lost in understanding the fundamentals of mythology by the complicated and detailed names and conventions and mythology seemed somewhat fitting but did not see the real spirit in the logic presented, but still I tried to understand mythology.

In logic and rationality, even the athiest believe in miracles and can understand, 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible. 123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere sufficiens).

We know in logic, Grace by definition is a free gift from God, freely given with nothing expected in return. Some say it is not fair and we have to give Him our time for His time.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[shunyadragon]

Peace to all,

Thanks Sunyadragon, I studied mythology in HS and was overwhelmed in time lost in understanding the fundamentals of mythology by the complicated and detailed names and conventions and mythology seemed somewhat fitting but did not see the real spirit in the logic presented, but still I tried to understand mythology.

In logic and rationality, even the athiest believe in miracles and can understand, 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible. 123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere sufficiens).

We know in logic, Grace by definition is a free gift from God, freely given with nothing expected in return. Some say it is not fair and we have to give Him our time for His time.

Peace always,
Stephen

This is the unfortunate abuse of logic. It is simply the the circular reasoning to justify an ancient tribal agenda. Yes, the Genesis Creation account and Noah's Flood account are based on ancient Sumerian, Babylonian and Canaanite mythology. All ancient cultures have a Creation acount.

The problem is exemplified by your posts. You propose a question followed by long rambling posts with the only purpose of proselytizing and preaching your beliefs.

 

[PureX]

It's like being in the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk found himself alone on a planet with an alien starship captain that only spoke the language of his people's mythology.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

So I conceed if Christ is logically mythology and my apoplgies in logic and reationality improperly represented by myself in logic and rationality and I apologize to all and will comply to all rules and will not go against rules, thanks.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's like being in the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk found himself alone on a planet with an alien starship captain that only spoke the language of his people's mythology.

Don’t remember that one

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Searching, mythology or not? Thanks in advance.
What say ye?

I don't want to leave, with respect to all,
Peace always,
Stephen

 

[PureX]

Don’t remember that one

The two captains were trying to kill each other because they each believed the other was trying to kill them. But they were also trying to communicate to stop that cycle.

Kirk eventually figured out how the alien's language worked (with Spock's help).

 

[shunyadragon]

Peace to all,

So I conceed if Christ is logically mythology.

Peace always,
Stephen

It is accepted that Jesus existed, but the different conflicting beliefs about Jesus are a problem because of scripture without provenance , it would be the Pentateuch that is largely based on mythology and is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

What unites all the faiths of Abraham, Judiasm, Islam and Christianity is through the spirit, some see the spirt as a force or power and some see the Spirit as a Person in being. It is in the Person in being shared for all to unite as one. Elijah is to return before the King and logic can point to John as Elijah in The Spirit and Power of Elijah, in logic this is what some see, and I mean it in a good way for all.
Glorified Disciples are perhaps mystics that have to power to unite all in the spirit to become as one in being, in logic, this is what I see for all mankind, in peace and fellowship and one in being.

Mythology could dictate Jesus is a Myth as not the king if in logic, John the Baptist is not Elijah in Spirit and Power, I just do not want to be wrong and if I am I stand corrected with all respect to all concerned.

If logic follows, if Jesus is King, born immortal and incorruptible would not allow Him to die and through the baptism of John, but through the Baptism of John in the River Jordan, Jesus Pentecost of the flesh and spirit becomes fulfilled as Baptized, Glorified and transfigured salvation for all mankind. now through death and resurrection, Jesus becomes in logic and faith, the "firstborn of all creation" back to Heaven for all Mankind, and from the Bosom of Abraham where saved from the Animal sacrifice, the Old Ark of the Covenent becomes fulfilled through the King, The Christ, closing the chasm of the Bosom of Abraham, crossing over to the chasm and closing the chasm of death of the body for all mankind reopening Heaven to flesh and souls and angels for all mankind and angels reunited.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[RestlessSoul]

The two captains were trying to kill each other because they each believed the other was trying to kill them. But they were also trying to communicate to stop that cycle.

Kirk eventually figured out how the alien's language worked (with Spock's help).

Gene Roddenberry, genius

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

"Love, strange love a star woman teaches." Gene Rodenburry, genius.

And through the logic, the Immaculate Conception becoming in immortality and incorruption Mary was Baptized by Her Virgin Birth by Her Christ and Our Brother in the immortal and imcorruptible spirit and flesh of His Mother by the Power from the Holy Spirit Person in Christ becoming shared as one in being in the Christ in all mankind for Her Glorious Transformation in Mary's Assumption to Heaven, in logic and through Faith, in logic and Through the Faith of Abraham, God Bless you St. Abraham, The Father of Faith in Christ in all mankind, united in being.

Peace always,
Stephen