Why is this board so obsessed with restrooms?

[icehorse]

I don't know whether @icehorse would or would not be supportive of (as you suggested). I only know that he keeps defensively insisting that somehow there is (or is about to be) an apocalyptic attack on women in women's restrooms. I'm betting that a search will reveal that, statistically, more transgendered people are (and have been) under attack. Also, people mistaken for being transgendered, as shown in the video I posted.

Okay, in order to follow me here you need to connect a few dots...

First off, I'm sure you're correct about trans folks getting attacked a lot. That's a problem we ought to tackle - no argument from me.

But!!! The solution should not increase the risk of attack for ALL women. I was recently at a conference and talked to a couple of dozen women about this. They ALL agreed that they would feel far less safe if men were entering their rest rooms and/or their locker rooms, and/or their safe houses.

So yes, if all of these safe spaces for women become open to men, I think it's only common sense that we WILL see huge increases in violence against women.

How is this not dead obvious?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you're apologizing for the trans activists, that's one of the things you're supporting. I'd be happy to hear that there are ideas within the trans activist playbook that you disagree with.

Why the flying **** should I jump just because you want me to?

 

[anna.]

Right! So you're saying that it's not the most basic common sense that letting men into women-only safe spaces will make those spaces less safe? Got it!

Do you have any study data or statistics to prove that trans women in bathrooms have made women less safe?

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Okay, in order to follow me here you need to connect a few dots...

First off, I'm sure you're correct about trans folks getting attacked a lot. That's a problem we ought to tackle - no argument from me.

But!!! The solution should not increase the risk of attack for ALL women. I was recently at a conference and talked to a couple of dozen women about this. They ALL agreed that they would feel far less safe if men were entering their rest rooms and/or their locker rooms, and/or their safe houses.

So yes, if all of these safe spaces for women become open to men, I think it's only common sense that we WILL see huge increases in violence against women.

How is this not dead obvious?

The U.S. needs to take its cue from our European neighbors and fix our public facilities, instead of having a crap attack over whoever they imagine are using those public facilities. I've twice now mentioned my recent experience of visiting just such an innovative public restroom while traveling in England.

Honestly, without efforts made to make public spaces more secure for everybody, it's not transgendered people using these spaces that anyone ought to be worried about. There are all sorts of sketchy people who can assault you in vulnerable public places: People hopped up on drugs, or people simply hopped up on their own paranoia and righteous indignation (like the woman in the video I posted, who mistook another woman for being transgendered and accosted her in the restroom).

Please don't be one of those kind of people.

 

[icehorse]

Why the flying **** should I jump just because you want me to?

Ha! Well we're all volunteers here, I thought you were willingly in a debate! silly me!

 

[icehorse]

Do you have any study data or statistics to prove that trans women in bathrooms have made women less safe?

aaahhhhhhhh. One more time: This is not about trans women. It's about allowing MEN into women-only spaces.

No, I don't have any stat on that, but isn't it blindingly obvious that letting men into womens-only spaces will end badly?

 

[icehorse]

The U.S. needs to take its cue from our European neighbors and fix our public facilities, instead of having a crap attack over whoever they imagine are using those public facilities. I've twice now mentioned my recent experience of visiting just such an innovative public restroom while traveling in England.

Honestly, without efforts made to make public spaces more secure for everybody, it's not transgendered people using these spaces that anyone ought to be worried about. There are all sorts of sketchy people who can assault you in vulnerable public places: People hopped up on drugs, or people simply hopped up on their own paranoia and righteous indignation (like the woman in the video I posted, who mistook another woman for being transgendered and accosted her in the restroom).

Please don't be one of those kind of people.

did you read what I wrote? because it seems you're answering a different question.

And BTW, most of the women I asked about this were from Europe.

 

[John53]

aaahhhhhhhh. One more time: This is not about trans women. It's about allowing MEN into women-only spaces.

No, I don't have any stat on that, but isn't it blindingly obvious that letting men into womens-only spaces will end badly?

Letting what men in? Cleaners? All men? Men with blue ties?

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

did you read what I wrote? because it seems you're answering a different question.

And BTW, most of the women I asked about this were from Europe.

I don't know of any place that permits men to use women's restroom facilities. You seem to be convinced that there is a national conspiracy afoot of men disguising themselves as women in order to get into women's restroom facilities for the purpose of assaulting women.

If that were so, then such men could have been disguising themselves and doing this all along, yet there doesn't seem to have ever been a national paranoia in the past regarding men doing this.

The truth is that the media-stoked public realization that transgendered people are present in our society (and they have been living among us for a long time, in fact) is what has spurred this paranoia and villagers-with-torches-and-pitchforks mentality.

Perhaps you think of transgender women as being men? If that is your stand, then you need to provide compelling statistics of transgender women assaulting cis women in public restrooms for your argument here to bear weight.

 

[anna.]

aaahhhhhhhh. One more time: This is not about trans women. It's about allowing MEN into women-only spaces.

No, I don't have any stat on that, but isn't it blindingly obvious that letting men into womens-only spaces will end badly?

Who's letting men into the women's room? Are you talking about all gender communal bathrooms? If so, where?

 

[Stevicus]

The U.S. needs to take its cue from our European neighbors and fix our public facilities, instead of having a crap attack over whoever they imagine are using those public facilities.

I don't know about others, but if I was having a crap attack, I'd be more worried about whether I could get to those facilities in time.

 

[We Never Know]

...and with whose in them and whose doing what?

I never realized that people think about public toilets so much. It's so bizarre to me, and I don't understand it! Why do we need multiple threads (even besides the joke threads) and convos in threads about restrooms at any given time???

So what about restrooms is so fascinating to the denizens of RF?

Question... After unisex restrooms, will unisex locker rooms/dressing rooms be next?

 

[anna.]

I don't know of any place that permits men to use women's restroom facilities. You seem to be convinced that there is a national conspiracy afoot of men disguising themselves as women in order to get into women's restroom facilities for the purpose of assaulting women.

If that were so, then such men could have been disguising themselves and doing this all along, yet there doesn't seem to have ever been a national paranoia in the past regarding men doing this.

The truth is that the media-stoked public realization that transgendered people are present in our society (and they have been living among us for a long time, in fact) is what has spurred this paranoia and villagers-with-torches-and-pitchforks mentality.

Perhaps you think of transgender women as being men? If that is your stand, then you need to provide compelling statistics of transgender women assaulting cis women in public restrooms for your argument here to bear weight.

There are no statistics to support it that I've found. The only two articles/studies I could find date to 2015 and 2018 but both could not substantiate the claim. As of 2015, there were zero attacks by trans people in bathrooms. The 2018 study was confined to MA but found no correlation in an increase in criminal incidents after gender inclusive bathroom policies were instated. Paywall at the second link but looks like the paper can be found here.
I'd like to find something more recent but haven't yet.

 

[anna.]

did you read what I wrote? because it seems you're answering a different question.

And BTW, most of the women I asked about this were from Europe.

What was the context for this conversation with women? What group did they represent at what conference?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That is the one toilet at RF that I don't clean.
It's @lewisnotmiller' private lavatory.
He has an electronic lock & booby traps
to keep it private. I've not yet seen any
boobies there though.

'booby traps' is a much nicer description of how I keep a toilet safe from other people's use than what my wife would say.

You're a gentleman.

 

[We Never Know]

There are no statistics to support it that I've found. The only two articles/studies I could find date to 2015 and 2018 but both could not substantiate the claim. As of 2015, there were zero attacks by trans people in bathrooms. The 2018 study was confined to MA but found no correlation in an increase in criminal incidents after gender inclusive bathroom policies were instated. Paywall at the second link but looks like the paper can be found here.
I'd like to find something more recent but haven't yet.

Your fist link rating is...

• Overall, we rate Mic Left-Center biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting for one-sided bias and two failed fact checks.

Mic - Bias and Credibility

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Apparently they ran out of things to talk about.

It's a bit like that glut of Noah's Ark threads awhile back.

How many toilets was there on Noah's Ark?

 

[Revoltingest]

You're a gentleman.

 

[YmirGF]

2). You assume that letting trans women into cis women places will make the places less safe, but without proving this before presenting your question to others on it. Such a practice can sometimes lead to a premise which is untrue. And when the question is framed certain ways, it's like trying to get people to "agree" with the premise just by answering the question. Example of such a question: "How did it go when you went to the restaurant today?" when the person may, or may not, have gone to the restaurant. But to answer it implies they went to the restaurant.

This is commonly known as leading the witness, if I am not mistaken. It's a common interrogation technique. The question is usually framed in such a way that the witness is tricked into a desired direction or outcome. We do this in "group" to great effect.

aaahhhhhhhh. One more time: This is not about trans women. It's about allowing MEN into women-only spaces.

If I am getting this right, men are not going into women's spaces because trans women are women. No man IS present. Therefore, to assert that allowing trans women into formerly women's spaces would encourage men to enter such spaces is ridiculous; If no men are present, trans women cannot effect the outcome. *brain implodes*

No, I don't have any stat on that, but isn't it blindingly obvious that letting men into womens-only spaces will end badly?

I'm willing to bet they are going to say that those spaces remain "womens-only" spaces because no man IS present.

 

[anna.]

Your fist link rating is...

• Overall, we rate Mic Left-Center biased based on editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting for one-sided bias and two failed fact checks.

Mic - Bias and Credibility

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Okay. Slight to Moderate. Do you want to contest their findings?