Why Islam, Christianity and modern Judaism are all apostate religious institutions.

[Simplelogic]

Apparently, this means we must follow the Rabbi's interpretation. Even if it means calling our left hand our right! This means every single OCD command that Rabbi's declare are binding and authoritative. No matter what! Even down to the way a person ties his shoes in the morning, or takes a crap. The wise Rabbi's have blessed us with their wisdom for these very complex circumstances.

Here is how a "good Jew" is meant to take a crap:

Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, "Chapter 4: Behavior on the Toilet and Laws of the Blessing "Who has created":

"(Section 1) A person must make a habit of defecating in the evening and in the morning, which is quickness and cleanliness. If he is unable to defecate, he must walk four cubits, and then sit down and then stand up again until he is able to defecate, or he may distract himself with other things [in order to bring about defecation]. A person who refrains from relieving himself violates the commandment, "You shall not make yourselves abhorrent [by any bug that crawls on the ground]" (Lev 11:42). If he refrains from urinating when he needs to, he violates the commandment, "[You shall be blessed beyond all the nations;] there shall not be among you a barren man[, or a barren women, not even among your animals]" (Dt 7:14)."

Please note that Lev 11: 42 and Dt: 7:14 have nothing to do with what the Rabbi's are saying.

"(Section 2) A person must be modest in the bathroom. He must not uncover himself until he sits down, and even then he must limit himself by only uncovering what is necessary to uncover, so as not to soil his clothing. He must be just as careful of this at night as during the day. If he defecates in an open place with no separating stalls, he must face southward with his backside to the north or vice versa, but it is forbidden to face east or west.[2] If there is a dividing stall he may face any direction as long as his backside is in the direction of the stall. One may urinate in any direction. One may not defecate in front of any person and it is even forbidden in front of a Gentile. Urination is permissible [in front of other people] even during the day in front of many people, if a person would endanger himself by holding back, but in any event he must urinate off to the side."

Hey, at least we can urinate in any direction!!

"(Section 3) One may not defecate standing up, nor may one force oneself by pushing too much, so as not to tear the rectum.[3] One may not hurry in leaving the toilet, until it is certain that he does not need to defecate any more. When a person urinates standing, he must be careful not to spatter on his shoes or his clothing. A person must be very careful not to hold his circumcision in his hand."

Such wisdom. I hope I didn't spatter my shoes today.

"(Section 4) It is forbidden to think about matters of Torah in the bathroom, therefore when a person is there, it is good to think about his business and finances, lest he end up thinking about Torah or God forbid thinking about sinfulness. On the Sabbath, when it is forbidden to think about business, a person should think about wonderful things which he has seen or heard and the like."

God is in our heads picking apart our every thought when taking a crap! I thought the Catholics were the ones drowning in guilt!

"(Section 5) A person must be careful to wipe himself well, for if even a drop of feces remains on the rectum, he is forbidden to speak any holy matter. A person may not wipe with his right hand because he ties his phylacteries with it. A lefty should wipe with his left hand, because it is equivalent to the right hand of the majority of people."

Come on!! I can't even choose which hand I wipe my *** with?

"(Section 6) Every time a person defecates or urinates, even a single drop, he must wash his hands with water and make the blessing "Who has created". If a person urinates or defecates but forgot to make the blessing "Who has created" and afterwards urinates or defecates a second time, and remembers that he forgot to make the blessing the first time, he still only needs to make the blessing once. A person who drinks a laxative and knows that he will need to defecate several times, should not make the blessing until he is completely finished."[4]

OCD nonsense!! I can't think of a worse way to live. So many things to think about just to take a crap. Could this be part of the reason that most Jews don't want to follow the Torah?? I don't blame them!

 

[rosends]

see post 214 and 215

I have shown that the Rabbi's themselves teach that their interpretation is above the prophets and God Himself. I have also shown them twist the Torah in order to create such logic. Remarkably, not one person has even given a logical defense for such statements. Its as if you don't really care that the Rabbi's believe this about themselves. That to me is startling.

because any defense would come from within a system which you reject a priori. Let's say that I present the explanation of so and so a rabbi from the year 1000 who spent a lifetime studying, contemplating and meditating on the meaning of the texts. Your answer would be that the conclusions he comes to are flawed -- because they are predicated on belief in a system, and because they are nourished by and help support a system, you, who reject the system, can not accept their thinking and conclusion. You start with am "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" so anyone else's understanding must, by definition, be wrong. Who wants to engage with someone as closed minded as you on issues of textual understanding? No one, it seems.

 

[Simplelogic]

because any defense would come from within a system which you reject a priori. Let's say that I present the explanation of so and so a rabbi from the year 1000 who spent a lifetime studying, contemplating and meditating on the meaning of the texts. Your answer would be that the conclusions he comes to are flawed -- because they are predicated on belief in a system, and because they are nourished by and help support a system, you, who reject the system, can not accept their thinking and conclusion. You start with am "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" so anyone else's understanding must, by definition, be wrong. Who wants to engage with someone as closed minded as you on issues of textual understanding? No one, it seems.

What on earth are you talking about??? They are misquoting the Torah and you know it! You simply think they are "so devout" that they have the right to do so. Even a 5 year old could see that the text has NOTHING TO DO with what the Rabbi's are using it for. Don't pretend like I'm not willing to hear a differing opinion either. YOU HAVE NO DIFFERING OPINION! Nor have you presented one. How on earth can anyone have an intelligent conversation if you don't even address the other person's argument?

 

[rosends]

What on earth are you talking about??? They are misquoting the Torah and you know it! You simply think they are "so devout" that they have the right to do so. Even a 5 year old could see that the text has NOTHING TO DO with what the Rabbi's are using it for. Don't pretend like I'm not willing to here a differing opinion either. YOU HAVE NO DIFFERING OPINION! Nor have you presented one. How on earth can anyone have an intelligent conversation if you don't even address the other person's argument?

See what you are doing? You are telling me I have no differing opinion. But you don't know me or what I know. You mistake my unwillingness to stoop down to your level of ignorance with an inability to understand text, because that reading fits your idea of the world. Do you really think you are the first one to raise these questions? And that they haven't been answered You just don't like the answers so you pretend they don't exist.

Do you really think that your "meditation, contemplation and study" is innovative or somehow superior? OK then, let it be so in your mind. To those who have actually studied etc, it is laughably naïve and even ignorant. So we don't play. Do you really think it is possible to have an intelligent conversation with someone who has already come to a definitive conclusion which is to the exclusion of all other ideas? (hint...it's not). Have fun ranting and raving. I'll be around, chuckling.

 

[Simplelogic]

Rabbinic Judaism has kept more Jews from finding the true Torah then ANY other religious institution on the planet. With Christianity coming in a close second.

 

[Simplelogic]

See what you are doing? You are telling me I have no differing opinion. But you don't know me or what I know. You mistake my unwillingness to stoop down to your level of ignorance with an inability to understand text, because that reading fits your idea of the world. Do you really think you are the first one to raise these questions? And that they haven't been answered You just don't like the answers so you pretend they don't exist.

Do you really think that your "meditation, contemplation and study" is innovative or somehow superior? OK then, let it be so in your mind. To those who have actually studied etc, it is laughably naïve and even ignorant. So we don't play. Do you really think it is possible to have an intelligent conversation with someone who has already come to a definitive conclusion which is to the exclusion of all other ideas? (hint...it's not). Have fun ranting and raving. I'll be around, chuckling.

I'm not the one telling all other Jews to keep Torah "just like me". Your lunatic Rabbi's are doing that. Nice tactic though. Accuse me of doing the very sin they are committing. Pretty smart.

 

[sojourner]

I never said anything like this. Those who claim to be covenant keepers should study the Torah and decide for themselves how to best keep it. This takes personal struggle and sincerity which causes relationship. The concept of yielding to a group of "spiritual leaders" who claim the full mantle of textual interpretation is lazy and disingenuous. Every man will stand before their maker ON THEIR OWN.

And what about the Torah says anything about such individualism. In Torah, God is God of God's people -- not individuals. Indeed, God didn't create individuals, but a race -- "Male and female God created them. In God's image, God created them." The imago dei is humanity, not individuals.

I also don't believe that those of other faiths must follow my religious beliefs in order to be restored to God.

Yet you seem concerned that everyone else is "apostate."

 

[sojourner]

With Christianity coming in a close second.

Good! The New Covenant fulfills the older Covenants.

 

[Simplelogic]

So since the Rabbinic Jews are done defending their lunatic Rabbi's with their bizarre commandments (which are higher then God's commandments). Lets move on to another religion.

Muslims - Are you willing to admit that the Torah teaches against your prophet yet?

Christians- Are you willing to admit that you are polytheist idol worshippers who reject God's Torah because of Paul?

 

[JoStories]

Actually, I truly appreciate much of the Rabbinic writings and the viewpoints. I don't believe that any group of people have the write to dictate interpretation to others right now. I believe we should listen to all peoples perspectives and make our own personal decisions for how we obey God.

Forgive this somewhat curt remark but I don't see you doing a lot of listening to other people's perspectives here. Or in any thread I have seen you making comments within. Perhaps if you lived the things you write on this forum?

 

[JoStories]

Sabbath was establish in the garden of Eden with Adam.

Only where it says God rested. There is no mention of this being a rule for men.

 

[JoStories]

1. It is logical to assume that Adam would copy God's expressed will in the garden. Its not like God told Adam this for no reason.
3. 20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar. Gen 8:20
4. The fact that Abraham was in covenant with another women proves he understood the law of marriage. As did other cultures.

Assumption is just that, assumption. It is what you think it is and nothing more which proves nothing.

 

[Godobeyer]

Muslims - Are you willing to admit that the Torah teaches against your prophet yet?

for my opinion , not most of Torah teaches we disagree .

for my opinion more than 70% or maybe 90% Torah and Quran match in teaches .

What are Torah teaches are against Quran teaches ?

 

[Simplelogic]

Forgive this somewhat curt remark but I don't see you doing a lot of listening to other people's perspectives here. Or in any thread I have seen you making comments within. Perhaps if you lived the things you write on this forum?

Sorry if you don't like it. I am blunt with people who defend ***MOD EDIT*** religious institutions that claim to descend from the God of Abraham. I have responded to every other opinion that has been put forward on this thread. Don't like it then go somewhere else. I have have little respect for humans that defend sinister institutions that control people's minds.

 

[JoStories]

Quoting from the website of a Christian/Messianic.

How adorable.

LOL...that was my exact thought as well.

 

[Simplelogic]

for my opinion , not most of Torah teaches we disagree .

for my opinion more than 70% or maybe 90% Torah and Quran match in teaches .

What are Torah teaches are against Quran teaches ?

Even if the Quran agreed with Torah 70 or 90% it would still be false. The Torah does not prohibit adding to or taking away. But the differences in the Torah and Quran are NUMEROUS. I can list them all out if you really want me to.

 

[JoStories]

You are fighting for your institutional religion which is obviously bogus. You get made at me for quoting from a Messianic or Christian website but why? Can't Christian's or Messianic's be right in some cases? Or does all truth come from Rabbinic Judaism? I believe truth can come from many avenues. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

My word..you were the one who said people should listen with open mind. Talk about the pot and the kettle

 

[Simplelogic]

LOL...that was my exact thought as well.

I would love to hear an actual thought from you on the matter. Haven't heard one yet.

 

[Simplelogic]

My word..you were the one who said people should listen with open mind. Talk about the pot and the kettle

By all means. Prove me wrong. I won't avoid your comments or questions.

 

[JoStories]

It is clear? You mean you are assuming, or "adding" to what the text says. And you know that the text only says that Abraham says the laws that were given to him.

There is no prohibition against making logical assumptions about the text. The prohibition is against adding or taking away commandments which is what your Rabbi's are doing.[/QUOTE]
Weren't you the one who was just making the assumption regarding the Sabbath and Adam. There, YOU are adding to the text. You are as guilty of making assumptions and adding as those you say are doing this and are so completely wrong or indoctrinated.