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Why Islam, Christianity and modern Judaism are all apostate religious institutions.

catch22

Active Member
Can you show me where in the Torah it commands us not to pick heads of grain on Sabbath?

Also, God doesn't change His commandments.

Heh. Harvesting is work. Is work forbidden on the sabbath?

"If you love me, you will keep My commandments." -Jesus

This much is true, but the purpose of the statement, as with many of Jesus' statements, were people put the law ahead of God Himself. That wasn't God's point. They make the law God... before God. Jesus reminds us of this when He says the sabbath was made for man (for rest), and not man for the sabbath (which is just a day of rest the Lord gave to His people).

Also, in Mark, where Jesus heals the hand of the sick man on the Sabbath and the Pharisees threw a caniption fit about that, too. Which is greater?
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member

Woohoo! :D



Guys, you're all operating on a past tense of the sabbath anyway, so why all the debate?

Mark 2:23-28!

Your TaNaKh is broken, it ends with the following.
"30 Thus cleansed I them from everything foreign, and appointed wards for the priests and for the Levites, every one in his work;
31 and for the wood-offering, at times appointed, and for the first-fruits. Remember me, O my God, for good."

You should let a professional TaNaKh repairman have a look at it.



Really. She loves to sit on the side lines and throw stones at me for having a different view on Torah then most Rabbi's. Then when I make a case against Rabbinic control over interpretation she continues to try to discredit me personally. She know's who she is really defending. She just doesn't have anything intelligent to say about the matter.

There is a good German saying for this: "Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es heraus." Of which the English equivalent would be: "What goes around, comes around."
Though it lacks the wonderful forest of the German saying.
 

catch22

Active Member
Your TaNaKh is broken, it ends with the following.
"30 Thus cleansed I them from everything foreign, and appointed wards for the priests and for the Levites, every one in his work;
31 and for the wood-offering, at times appointed, and for the first-fruits. Remember me, O my God, for good."

You should let a professional TaNaKh repairman have a look at it.

Your soul is broken. You should have a professional take a look at it for you. His name is Jesus. ;)
 

ether-ore

Active Member
All three of these religious institutions have ONE thing in common. They all believe that the law of Moses was divinely given by God. Ironically, none of these religious institutions believe in exclusively following this law. Each one has made up clever ways to circumvent the Torah guidelines. Yet the Torah itself condemns the practicing of "adding to" or "taking away" commandments:

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deut 4: 2

Christianity- Follow's Paul, a man who came and taught people that Jesus' death replaced the need to obey God's original commandments.

Islam- Mohammed came and taught Muslims they could follow other laws which are not found in the Law of Moses. He also negated many commands in the Law of Moses as being applicable to Muslims.

Judaism- Created a man-made concept of "oral Torah" which overrides the original Torah commands. Rabbi's believe they have the authority to nullify or add too different basic Torah commands. This is why the bulk of modern Judaism contains practices which cannot be found in the law of Moses.

All three of these institutions are apostate religions which only now serve to control human spirituality.

I guess your statements are intended to encourage people to do those things that will bring them into harmony with God and thus salvation. There is no doubt but that you will disagree with what I say here, but as I contemplate what God said to Moses, I see God's intent as that of a school master in teaching a stiff-necked people their duty. I agree with you that Rabbi's have no liturgical authority. They are not "ordained" unto any authority. They, like most Christian Pastors have simply attended some theological school and by so doing, they think they have the authority to act in the name of God. God told Moses to lay hands on Aaron and his sons and ordain them to their offices wherein they were, by virtue of that ordination, authorized to officiate in sacred things. I do not believe that God accepts performances that are done without His authority. So I agree with you as far as that goes in terms of apostasy.

God alone determines what is acceptable to Him. If God did not authorize it by the laying on of hands by someone in authority (Moses in this case) and as in the example with Aaron; it is not acceptable and it is presumptuous in the extreme for anyone to think they can do otherwise. Where you and I will have a disagreement is that God's intent and work ended with the Torah. I believe the sole purpose for our being here in mortality is to learn to choose those things that will brings us into harmony with God and be enabled by His authority to return to Him. I believe that that authority resides in Jesus Christ; that it is His atonement that makes it possible for us to return to our Heavenly Father. I believe that the God of the Torah is Jehovah and that He is the same being we refer to as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Great I AM... He is Jehovah who gave that authority to Moses. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ does supersede all of the carnal commandments that He (as Jehovah) gave to Moses. Jesus Christ has restored to the world the higher laws and ordinances which must be met in order for any of His would be disciples to return to their Father in Heaven. The laws and ordinances He gave to Moses were mere training wheels. Their intent was to teach them obedience because they were stiff-necked, but it was not sufficient to make them eligible for the Kingdom of God. When Moses came down from the mount and caught the children of Israel in the act of worshiping the golden calf, he broke the tables with the higher law because the children of Israel were not ready for them. Also, when God spoke to the congregation from the mount, the children of Israel feared to make the necessary covenants and asked Moses alone to speak for them because they individually feared.

So, if you think the Torah alone will save you in the Kingdom of God... Good Luck. I choose to believe a more sensible path is required and you can tell me I'm mistaken until the cows come home and it will matter not one wit.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Your soul is broken. You should have a professional take a look at it for you. His name is Jesus. ;)

Nah I'll stay with this guy.

Shemot 20:1-5
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
3 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
4 thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;
5 and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
I guess your statements are intended to encourage people to do those things that will bring them into harmony with God and thus salvation. There is no doubt but that you will disagree with what I say here, but as I contemplate what God said to Moses, I see God's intent as that of a school master in teaching a stiff-necked people their duty. I agree with you that Rabbi's have no liturgical authority. They are not "ordained" unto any authority. They, like most Christian Pastors have simply attended some theological school and by so doing, they think they have the authority to act in the name of God. God told Moses to lay hands on Aaron and his sons and ordain them to their offices wherein they were, by virtue of that ordination, authorized to officiate in sacred things. I do not believe that God accepts performances that are done without His authority. So I agree with you as far as that goes in terms of apostasy.

God alone determines what is acceptable to Him. If God did not authorize it by the laying on of hands by someone in authority (Moses in this case) and as in the example with Aaron; it is not acceptable and it is presumptuous in the extreme for anyone to think they can do otherwise. Where you and I will have a disagreement is that God's intent and work ended with the Torah. I believe the sole purpose for our being here in mortality is to learn to choose those things that will brings us into harmony with God and be enabled by His authority to return to Him. I believe that that authority resides in Jesus Christ; that it is His atonement that makes it possible for us to return to our Heavenly Father. I believe that the God of the Torah is Jehovah and that He is the same being we refer to as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Great I AM... He is Jehovah who gave that authority to Moses. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ does supersede all of the carnal commandments that He (as Jehovah) gave to Moses. Jesus Christ has restored to the world the higher laws and ordinances which must be met in order for any of His would be disciples to return to their Father in Heaven. The laws and ordinances He gave to Moses were mere training wheels. Their intent was to teach them obedience because they were stiff-necked, but it was not sufficient to make them eligible for the Kingdom of God. When Moses came down from the mount and caught the children of Israel in the act of worshiping the golden calf, he broke the tables with the higher law because the children of Israel were not ready for them. Also, when God spoke to the congregation from the mount, the children of Israel feared to make the necessary covenants and asked Moses alone to speak for them because they individually feared.

So, if you think the Torah alone will save you in the Kingdom of God... Good Luck. I choose to believe a more sensible path is required and you can tell me I'm mistaken until the cows come home and it will matter not one with

Do I think following the Torah restores me to God?? Yes!

"Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that (for this purpose) it might be well with them and with their children forever!" Deuteronomy 5:29

"And the Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that (for this purpose) He might preserve us alive, as it is this day. Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us." Deuteronomy 6:24,25

Do I think the Torah is perfect? Yes!

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19: 7

Did Jesus teach his followers to keep the whole law of Moses until "heaven and earth pass away"? Yes!

17Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5: 17-19

16And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?17And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19: 16-17

Did Paul teach against keeping the law of Moses? Most definitely!

Paul is blunt in Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Cor. 3:11-17, Romans 7:1-3 et seq, and Galatians 3:19 et seq. The Law is "abolished," "done away with," "nailed to a tree," "has faded away,' and was "only ordained by angels...who are no gods." If we were to cite Paul's condemnations of the Law in one string, the point is self-evident that Paul abrogated the Law for everyone. See Eph. 2:15 ("setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations"); Col. 2:14 ("having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;") 2 Cor. 3:14 ("old covenant"); Gal. 5:1 ("yoke of bondage"); Rom. 10:4 ("Christ is the end of the law"); 2 Cor. 3:7 ("law of death"); Gal. 5:1 ("entangles"); Col. 2:14-17 ("a shadow"); Rom. 3:27 ("law of works"); Rom. 4:15 ("works wrath"); 2 Cor. 3:9(ministration of condemnation); Gal. 2:16 ("cannot justify"); Gal. 3:21 (cannot give life); Col. 2:14 ("wiped out" exaleipsas); Gal. 3:19, 4:8-9 ("given by angels...who are no gods [and are] weak and beggarly celestial beings/elements").

Paul was not even one of the twelve apostles yet Christianity is 90% based off of Paul's letters with occasional soundbites from Jesus to make it all look like one fluid religion.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
First of all, there are the Noachide Laws, which were given prior to both Moses and Abraham, but they constitute only 7 Commandments, and the Sabbath Laws are not found in them. Secondly, during Abraham's time, God gave the order that Jewish boys need to be circumcised 8 days after birth, which is repeated in the Mosaiic Law. Also, as we see in Exodus, the vast majority of Commandments were given at Sinai, including keeping the Sabbath, with most of them given by Moses to the people after his giving them the Decalogue.

With Gen.26:4, not only is there the insistence that we follow the Noachide and Abrahamic Laws, it also sets up the paradigm for us to follow the many other Laws God was going to pass on to Moses.
Noachide laws are made up. Besides there is supposed to be only 7…not 8!

Also, I have already demonstrated above that the following commands were being practiced before Sinai:
-Animal sacrifices
-Sabbath
-Passover
-Levirate marriages
-Marriage
-Adultery
-Prohibition on Sodomy
-Clean and unclean animal distinctions for sacrifices

Yet you think Abraham was only keeping the 7 (I mean 8) Noachide laws??? Really?
 

catch22

Active Member
Nah I'll stay with this guy.

Shemot 20:1-5
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
3 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
4 thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;
5 and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

Right. So, same thing.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Noachide laws are made up. Besides there is supposed to be only 7…not 8!

Apparently reading is not your forte as I wrote 7 (see post #199).

Also, I have already demonstrated above that the following commands were being practiced before Sinai:
-Animal sacrifices
-Sabbath
-Passover
-Levirate marriages
-Marriage
-Adultery
-Prohibition on Sodomy
-Clean and unclean animal distinctions for sacrifices

Not Shabbat, and you continue to not provide one shred of evidence that you say you have. Not one. Nor Passover, which was mandated by God to Moses. Nor most of the other 613 Laws that you continue to ignore because they don't fit into your "knowledge" of Torah.


Yet you think Abraham was only keeping the 7 (I mean 8) Noachide laws??? Really?
I didn't say that, and as matter of fact I said the opposite. Again, see post #199.

You make so many claims about what Jews supposedly believe, but as we see in just this post alone, you can't even get certain basic things correct. You bad-mouth Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, and then have the unmitigated gaul to claim to know the Truth when you can't even properly read what I and some others wrote on their posts, such as what we've seen above. I think it's time you swallowed a modesty pill and come back down to Earth with the rest of us mortals.
 
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gsa

Well-Known Member
All three of these religious institutions have ONE thing in common. They all believe that the law of Moses was divinely given by God. Ironically, none of these religious institutions believe in exclusively following this law. Each one has made up clever ways to circumvent the Torah guidelines. Yet the Torah itself condemns the practicing of "adding to" or "taking away" commandments:

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deut 4: 2

Christianity- Follow's Paul, a man who came and taught people that Jesus' death replaced the need to obey God's original commandments.

Islam- Mohammed came and taught Muslims they could follow other laws which are not found in the Law of Moses. He also negated many commands in the Law of Moses as being applicable to Muslims.

Judaism- Created a man-made concept of "oral Torah" which overrides the original Torah commands. Rabbi's believe they have the authority to nullify or add too different basic Torah commands. This is why the bulk of modern Judaism contains practices which cannot be found in the law of Moses.

All three of these institutions are apostate religions which only now serve to control human spirituality.

See? You are just a couple of steps (and perhaps a few biblical criticism books) away from the inexorable conclusion.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Apparently reading is not your forte as I wrote 7 (see post #199).



Not Shabbat, and you continue to not provide one shred of evidence that you say you have. Not one. Nor Passover, which was mandated by God to Moses. Nor most of the other 613 Laws that you continue to ignore because they don't fit into your "knowledge" of Torah.


I didn't say that, and as matter of fact I said the opposite. Again, see post #199.

You make so many claims about what Jews supposedly believe, but as we see in just this post alone, you can't even get certain basic things correct. You bad-mouth Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, and then have the unmitigated gaul to claim to know the Truth when you can't even properly read what I and some others wrote on their posts, such as what we've seen above. I think it's time you swallowed a modesty pill and come back down to Earth with the rest of us mortals.
Yes. I detest religious institutions that attempt to control humans through brainwashing. They teach people lies about God and about His ways. The followers only see through the lens they are presented. Not sure why you are so upset with my feelings about institutional religion. Nor do I understand your desire to defend such an institution.

When did Israelites first keep Shabbat? Before or after Sinai? See above^^

I know what you said. You are claiming the 7 laws were all Abraham was keeping then conveniently adding circumcision to it because you know you can't get around that. The Rabbi's seem to be stumped on this one:

"More than two hundred years before Sinai, Abraham is obeying all of HaShem's requirements, commands, decrees and laws. This is the first time we see mitzvot being obeyed when it is not apparent when HaShem revealed His mitzvot. We do not know whether He made a special revelation to Abraham, or whether Abraham was taught by someone else. The Talmud also noticed that Abrahamkept the whole Torah:


Yoma 28b Rab said: Our father Abraham kept the whole Torah, as it is said: Because that Abraham hearkened to My voice [kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws].[5] R. Shimi b. Hiyya said to Rab: Say, perhaps, that this refers to the seven laws?[6] — Surely there was also that of circumcision![7] Then say that it refers to the seven laws and circumcision[and not to the whole Torah]? — If that were so, why does Scripture say: ‘My commandments and My laws’?

Raba or R. Ashi said: Abraham, our father, kept even the law concerning the ‘erub of the dishes,’[8] as it is said: ‘My Torahs’:[9] one being the written Torah, the other the oral Torah.[10]

The Talmud teaches that Avraham kept the entire Torah before it was given to the Jewish People at Sinai. The Midrash says that Isaac kept the laws of shchitah (kosher slaughtering), and Yaakovthe laws of Shabbat, before the giving of Torah at Sinai. Truthfully, Isaac and Yaakov kept all of Torah, just as Avraham did.

Why, then, is only Avraham mentioned as having kept all 613 mitzvot? Torah's goal is to create a world of chesed, a world of giving and of kindness. Avraham's defining character trait was the same: loving-kindness (chesed).

Things being so, Avraham had an innate connection to Torah. Avraham, by his nature, was closer, more similar, to the laws of Torah than were the other Patriarchs. Avraham, specifically, was bound to Torah, in a way that left him alike one commanded to keep all of Torah.

HaShem appreciates more a mitzva accomplished by a person commanded to fulfill that mitzva, than when accomplished by someone not so instructed. [The reason HaShem instructs the person that He does, is because He more desires that person's doing it!]Thus, Avraham's observance of Torah was of more significance than its being kept by Isaac or Yaakov. And thus: Avraham, specifically, is mentioned as having kept all of Torah!Torah Before Mount Sinai
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
But you act like you do by insisting that observant Jews here are pretty much following trash. Instead of saying things beginning with "I believe...", you state your opinions and interpretations as if they're facts.

So, you are indeed claiming the "exclusive right of interpretation".
If you think a group of elite thinkers are meant to form your opinions on Torah for you then yes. If you see the Rabbi's interpretation as mere opinion then we are in the same camp! But it is clear that Rabbi's claim exclusive authority to the interpretation of Torah.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
More on the Rabbinic claim to exclusive interpretation:

BABYLONIAN TALMUD, BABA METZIA 59B
Rabbi Eliezer now cried out: “If the law is to be construed in the way I have argued, then let God prove it!” And, in fact, a Heavenly Voice was heard proclaiming: “What do you want from Rabbi Eliezer? Don’t you know that in all matters of law the decision is in accordance with his opinion?” At that, Rabbi Joshua jumped to his feet and shouted: “It is not in the heavens!” (Deuteronomy 30:12) What did he mean by that quotation from Deuteronomy? Rabbi Jeremiah explained: “The Torah had already been revealed at Mount Sinai. We, therefore, need not be concerned with further Heavenly Voices. After all, the Sinaitic Torah itself contains the principle that, in legal matters, the vote of the majority is decisive” (Exodus 23:2, in the rabbinic interpretation). Later, when Rabbi Nathan met the Prophet Elijah, he asked the Prophet: “What did the Holy One, praised be God, do at that hour?” Elijah replied: “God smiled and said: ‘My children have prevailed against me! My children have prevailed against me!’”

Here is the true heart of the matter. Rabbi's actually believe that there interpretation is higher then God's own voice! This story (parable) is obviously teaching that Rabbinic authority on the Torah is GREATER then the opinions of God Himself. They come to this logic by taking small soundbites of the Torah to make this claim. So lets look at the first reference from Deut 30: 12.

Deuteronomy 30:12- The Rabbi's have taking the words "it is not in heaven", out of context in order to solidify their authority over all others. But lets look at the passage itself to see what it says about the Torah "in context":

11For this commandment (Torah) which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. 12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Deut 30: 11-14

The very passage that Rabbi's cherry pick to claim their exclusive authority is ACTUALLY a verse that destroys their authoritative claim!!! The ENTIRE point to this passage is predicated on the notion that the Torah is "not to difficult" for us to understand. Of course, the Rabbi's teach us the exact opposite. They claim it is complex and difficult to understand and the Torah can't be properly kept without their "oral Torah". What a joke!

But thats not all! It actually gets worse. Lets look at the next soundbite of the Torah that the Rabbi's cherry picked:

Exodus 23:2 - The Rabbi's have really outdone themselves this time. They claim we are to "follow the multitude" meaning "the Rabbi's" and that is what this passage means. So lets read the passage and see if it says that.

1Thou shalt not utter a false report; put not thy hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness. 2Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou bear witness in a cause to turn aside after a multitude to pervert justice; Ex 23: 1-2

Did you catch it?? The very verse that Rabbi's use to claim we must all "follow the multitude" IS ACTUALLY SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!

It is telling us NOT to follow the multitude and not to follow the wicked majority!! What a joke!
 
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Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
“If there are 1000 prophets, all of them of the stature of Elijah and Elisha, giving a certain interpretation, and 1001 rabbis giving the opposite interpretation, you shall 'incline after the majority' (Exodus 23:2) and the law is according to the 1001 rabbis, not according to the 1000 venerable prophets. And thus our Sages said, ‘By God, if we heard the matter directly from the mouth of Joshua the son of Nun, we would not obey him nor would we listen to him!’ The Sages said further, ‘If Elijah comes and tells us, “The levirate obligation is cancelled through a shoe” (see Deuteronomy 25:9), we will listen to him [because this is what the Oral Law teaches], but if he says it is cancelled through a sandal, we will not listen to him [because that is contrary to the Oral Law].’ . . .

“And so if a prophet testified that the Holy One, Blessed be He, told him that the law of a certain commandment is correct, that prophet must be EXECUTED., as it is written, ‘it is not in heaven’ (Deuteronomy 30: 12). Thus God does not permit us to LEARN from the prophets, ONLY FROM THE RABBIS who are men of logic and reason” (Maimonides, p.27-28).

I guess I need to be executed then…..sigh.

Not because I am a prophet…but because I have a different interpretation of Torah.
 
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Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Heh. Harvesting is work. Is work forbidden on the sabbath?

"If you love me, you will keep My commandments." -Jesus

This much is true, but the purpose of the statement, as with many of Jesus' statements, were people put the law ahead of God Himself. That wasn't God's point. They make the law God... before God. Jesus reminds us of this when He says the sabbath was made for man (for rest), and not man for the sabbath (which is just a day of rest the Lord gave to His people).

Also, in Mark, where Jesus heals the hand of the sick man on the Sabbath and the Pharisees threw a caniption fit about that, too. Which is greater?
Yeshua vs the Pharisees (round 2) | ReligiousForums.com

Also check out:

Jesus exposes Paul as a false apostle | ReligiousForums.com
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Hey? Why are all the Rabbinic Jews silent now?

Because you know you are all following a bunch of MORONS who put their own words above Torah. It can't be avoided or denied. You either must believe the Rabbi's have a God given exclusive claim to interpret the Torah or they are LIARS! And so is your "religion".
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Hey? Why are all the Rabbinic Jews silent now?

Because you know you are all following a bunch of MORONS who put their own words above Torah. It can't be avoided or denied. You either must believe the Rabbi's have a God given exclusive claim to interpret the Torah or they are LIARS! And so is your "religion".
No, because we know you have a belief with which we don;t agree and telling you that you are wrong is a waste of breath. You don't understand what you read, you come to conclusions that fit preconceived notions and you have no interest in learning. We don't begrudge you your belief and yet yours is predicated on denigrating others. That's sad. But have fun with it. Peace out.
 
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