Rubbish.
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Why Jews and Christians do not accept Islam?
- Thread starter InvestigateTruth
- Start date
Rubbish.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
He raised the dead so in my mind he’s God in the flesh
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
'God' is ambiguous. Elohim, translated as 'God", is a plural word.
Perhaps the Jews and Christians don't accept Muhammad for the same reason the Muslims don't accept Jesus, or Isis, or Thor. It's not like people actually think about it rationally, compare and contrast, or critically analyze religious tenets.
Religion is rarely a product of rational thought. It's downloaded at an age before any firewalls, anti-malware, or critical analytical skills are developed. It becomes part of the operating system -- hard to override.
Try introducing religious doctrine to adults and see how far you get.
Religion is rarely a product of rational thought. It's downloaded at an age before any firewalls, anti-malware, or critical analytical skills are developed. It becomes part of the operating system -- hard to override.
Try introducing religious doctrine to adults and see how far you get.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
It's written in the Quran that God's law is not eternal. That's a deal breaker for me. It conflicts with the written Torah.
Naskh (tafsir) - Wikipedia
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
If Islam means submission to God, I would not be able to practice Judaism without it.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
The verbs connected that word are conjugated singular. Please, let's not argue about this? Singular or plural in Hebrew is set by the verb. The word Elohim looks plural, but it's not. OK?
Maybe it's ambiguous because God's influence is everywhere. Jeremiah 23:23-24 Isaiah 6:3 Deuteronomy 6:4 ( YHVH & Elohim are one ) Isaiah 44:24 ( YHVH created everything ALONE ). That really should be the end of this Elohim is plural and there's some nefarious cover-up happening regarding the Torah.
That's 3? Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Moses all disagree with you. And then the Hebrew language itself disagrees with you, because the verb sets singular/plural.
Are we good?
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
And if Muslim means doing God's will, I can only hope I'm muslim.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
nice choice of words. Me too.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Do you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet? He claims that the Angel Moroni guided him to the Golden Plates that were translated into the Book of Mormon, which says that Jesus came to the Americas.
Do you accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet? He claimed he was the Messiah and the Mahdi.
If you don't, does that make you close-minded?
There's a lot of religions out there with lots of different beliefs. You don't have to believe that all of them are true. And, even though you are a Baha'i, I think that even you have your limits as to what you believe is true.
Like let's look at the Bible... The Creation story in Genesis. True or not true? The world being completely flooded and only Noah and his family and the animals on the Ark survived? True or not true. Oh, here's a good one.... The Bible prophecies about the Messiah. True or not true?
I'd imagine what is true for you is your interpretation of those things. Are you open minded enough to accept your interpretation and the interpretation of the Jews? How about the way that Christians interpret them? If you don't accept their interpretations as being as valid as yours, does that make you close minded?
Or, this is probably closer to what you really believe... You are open minded which has allowed you to see that the Baha'i interpretations are correct and the interpretations of the Jews and Christians are incorrect. They are close minded and can't see that you, the Baha'i, has the correct interpretation.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What's happening there is important to look at. Did Christians reinterpret the Bible to fit their beliefs? I think they did. An important one for me is how they found a verse to make Jesus a virgin born savior. Plus, they found verses to make Satan into "Lucifer" and the serpent in Eden. But did Jesus fulfill the Messianic prophecies? For Christians, they say "yes." And the ones he didn't fulfill, he will when he returns.
Then Islam reinterprets the NT and the Bible. Jesus didn't really die. And Ishmael, not Isaac, was the son taken to be sacrificed.
Then Baha'is reinterpret the Bible, the NT, and the Quran. And one of the main questions I have for them is.... Just how many "Messiahs" were prophesied in the Bible? But just like whether a word is singular or plural, there are ways for a religion to interpret things their way.
A great one for Baha'is is that the "Glory of God" was seen approaching from the "Gate" that faces East. And it just so happens that one of their prophets was called the Bab, which they say means, "the gate". And their main prophet, Baha'u'llah, means "The Glory of God". Just a coincidence? Or a fulfillment of a prophecy? Or... just creative interpreting?
All these religions say they "believe" in the Bible, just not how the Jews interpret it. But they don't agree with each other either.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Ironically, the Baha'is have a quote that says that if religions are the cause of discord and strife, we would be better off without religion. That we should look at what each has in common and focus on the differences. I wish Baha'is would apply that way of thinking a little more.
You, on the other hand, seem better than most to be able to see the good in all the religions.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No Jews on this forum ever told me that.
I don't know why you would think that I think they would expect me to believe what they believe.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The plural/singular nature of Elohim is illustrated in Exodus 3. There are two beings, and that is consistent with the use of the plural word Elohim. There is one speaker, which is consistent with a singular nature.
'God' is ambiguous. None of your verses are about Elohim.
[Am] I a Elah at hand, saith YHWH, and not a Elah afar off?
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:23-24
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Christians don't need/accept Muhammed as Christ is the only way to God and the peak of revelation.
Strict monotheism is also incompatible with today's Trinity doctrine.
it depends on what he says. In Quran it is said that people should believe Jesus. I accept that. What else should I accept?
“…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…”
Quran 4:171, Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
If I misinferred your post, #6, I apologize.
Or they fit their beliefs to some reinterpretation of the Bible. Few of us are conversant in colloquial Biblical Hebrew.
