Why Jews and Christians do not accept Islam?

[dybmh]

And YHWH said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto YHWH to gaze, and many of them perish.
And let the priests also, which come near to YHWH, sanctify themselves, lest YHWH break forth upon them.
And Moses said unto YHWH, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.
And YHWH said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto YHWH, lest he break forth upon them.
So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.
Exodus 19:21-25

And Elohim spake all these words, saying,
I [am] YHWH thy Elah, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other Elohim before me.
Exodus 20:1-3

1)YHVH spoke to Moses.
2) Moses listens.
3) Moses goes down and speaks to the people
4) while Moses is down, a "lower" more down to earth revelation of God, described as Elohim, delivers the famous 10 statements ( commandments ) to ALL THE PEOPLE.

Because the 10 are delivered to ALL the people it is a more down to earth revelation, thus, the name shifts.

 

[dybmh]

And YHWH said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto YHWH to gaze, and many of them perish.
And let the priests also, which come near to YHWH, sanctify themselves, lest YHWH break forth upon them.
And Moses said unto YHWH, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.
And YHWH said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto YHWH, lest he break forth upon them.
So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.
Exodus 19:21-25

And Elohim spake all these words, saying,
I [am] YHWH thy Elah, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other Elohim before me.
Exodus 20:1-3

ויאמרו אל־משה דבר־אתה עמנו ונשמעה ואל־ידבר עמנו אלהים פן־נמות׃

And they said to Moses, Speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die
.
This verse (16) shows Moses cannot be an Elohim. Moses wasn't speaking. The people asking to take over speaking on behalf of YHVH even though it was a lower revelation in the form of Elohim.

 

[Ebionite]

4) while Moses is down, a "lower" more down to earth revelation of God, described as Elohim, delivers the famous 10 statements ( commandments )

There's nothing in the text that would suggest a lower Elohim. Up and down here refer to up on Mt Sinai or down among the people.

Elohim is plural, and the only two beings that could be Elohim in this context are YHWH and Moses.

 

[dybmh]

There's nothing in the text that would suggest a lower Elohim

Sure there is. Psalm 82.

 

[dybmh]

Elohim is plural

Nope. The verb is Dabehr. It's singular.

 

[Ebionite]

ויאמרו אל־משה דבר־אתה עמנו ונשמעה ואל־ידבר עמנו אלהים פן־נמות׃

And they said to Moses, Speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die
.
This verse (16) shows Moses cannot be an Elohim.

No, there's no reason to think that the people were able to distinguish between Moses and Elohim.

Moses wasn't speaking.

Falsified by the Exodus 19:25

So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.

 

[dybmh]

two beings that could be Elohim in this context are YHWH and Moses

Bro. Exodus 20:1 is Elohim stating it is YHVH

And Elohim spake all these words, saying, I [am] YHWH

YHVH IS ELOHIM IS YHVH IS ELOHIM IS YHVH IS ELOHIM IS YHVH IS ELOHIM....

Your own words. Your own translation. Do you see how crazy this is? You're so desperate to cling to any shred of hope that you too can be a Elohim, that you've ignored what you posted less than an hour ago.

 

[dybmh]

No, there's no reason to think that the people were able to distinguish between Moses and Elohim.

Um. You really don't know do you?


Deut 4:12

וידבר יהוה אליכם מתוך האש קול דברים אתם שמעים ותמונה אינכם ראים זולתי קול׃

And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice
.

 

[Ebionite]

Sure there is. Psalm 82.

Apples & oranges. Psalm 82 refers to unjust judgment, which is not part of the context of Exodus 19-20.

Nope. The verb is Dabehr. It's singular.

No, the verb indicates that it is used as if it were singular word, but it's a plural word because of the yud-mem suffix.

The singular aspect of Elohim is reflected by the singular nature of the speaker: Moses and YHWH do not speak independently in Exodus 20 in the presence of the people.

Bro. Exodus 20:1 is Elohim stating it is YHVH

No, YHWH is not identified in verse one:

And Elohim spake all these words, saying,
Exodus 20:1

Your own words. Your own translation. Do you see how crazy this is?

The crazy is your attempt to interpret Exodus 20:2 without considering the previous two verses.

Um. You really don't know do you?


Deut 4:12

וידבר יהוה אליכם מתוך האש קול דברים אתם שמעים ותמונה אינכם ראים זולתי קול׃

And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice

That's different because Moses wasn't speaking as Elohim in Exodus 19:18-19.

 

[PearlSeeker]

'God' is ambiguous. Prophets like Moses were literally part of Elohim (translated as 'God'). Exodus 19:25-20:2.

Do you really think Moses spoke about himself when he delivered this message (quote below)?

I יהוה am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of bondage:​

You shall have no other gods besides Me.​

​

​

 

[dybmh]

But the Laws of God come as a remedy for the people in an Age

What you wrote above is the law for the primitive people of a prior age.

Here, now, in this age: God's law is eternal.

See how that works?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What you wrote above is the law for the primitive people of a prior age.

Here, now, in this age: God's law is eternal.

See how that works?

No, because even though we think we are very advanced, we are not in comparison with people of 1000 years later. We are advanced in comparison with people of 200 years ago. So, the Law has to change accordingly in every Age. So, God, from His wosdom, gives a new Law in every Age. This is why, Before Moses, was Abraham, and before Abraham through Noah, a covenant was established. And likewise we believe in continued with Jesus, Muhammad, and Later the Bab and Baha'u'llah. The most recent Law came through Baha'u'llah in Baha'i view. 1000 years later or so, God again renews the Law according to the conditions of the future people.

 

[dybmh]

No

Ok. Please explain the malady and the remedy which produces the for laws prohibiting shatnez and/or kilayim in the age of Moses?

But the Laws of God come as a remedy for the people in an Age

Please explain the malady and the remedy which produces the for laws prohibiting shatnez and/or kilayim in the age of Moses?

And.

What happened to that malady? Where did it go?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, because even though we think we are very advanced, we are not in comparison with people of 1000 years later. We are advanced in comparison with people of 200 years ago. So, the Law has to change accordingly in every Age. So, God, from His wosdom, gives a new Law in every Age. This is why, Before Moses, was Abraham, and before Abraham through Noah, a covenant was established. And likewise we believe in continued with Jesus, Muhammad, and Later the Bab and Baha'u'llah. The most recent Law came through Baha'u'llah in Baha'i view. 1000 years later or so, God again renews the Law according to the conditions of the future people.

We already need an update... "Thou shalt not spend more than one hour per day on social media. Anymore than that is a sin." "Be ye aware of fraudsters on the internet that come to you like sheep but are ravenous wolves."

Oh, but a couple of questions... God gave specific laws that were to last until the next manifestation, which was Jesus. How many people knew about these laws from God? It never seemed like these laws were for anyone but the Hebrews. What laws did God give to the people in the rest of the world? And from which manifestation?

Then... what new social laws did Jesus bring? And were they meant for all people throughout the world or only for a few specific people?

 

[CG Didymus]

But the Laws of God come as a remedy for the people in an Age. As those conditions change from time to time, a different Law is required. It doesn't make sense to me, God gives a Law which is forever applicable and useful.

Or.... People make up their own laws and their own Gods. And over time they change those laws and their beliefs about their Gods.

 

[Sargonski]

1)YHVH spoke to Moses.
2) Moses listens.
3) Moses goes down and speaks to the people
4) while Moses is down, a "lower" more down to earth revelation of God, described as Elohim, delivers the famous 10 statements ( commandments ) to ALL THE PEOPLE.

Because the 10 are delivered to ALL the people it is a more down to earth revelation, thus, the name shifts.

Sorry to be a stickler but .. the 10 commands delivered by Lord YHVH to Moses .. and subsequent covenant of the people with that God .. is Broken .. the People then make a new Covenant .. with a new God .. by different name .. and 10 different commands .

It is the second set of 10 commands that goes into the Ark .. and this a big conundrum for the monotheist .. the twin God or diest perspective of a sort .. allows for a Jeckyl and Hyde kind of thing . .. in this case mostly Hyde

We have a similar twin God as the Patron God of Jerusalem for at least 800 years under Canaanites .. the name of this God is Zedek .. twin God of Justice and Righteousness .. Patron God of the City of Peace . who sits at the right hand of the God Most High / God Supreme El -- God of Abraham and the Patriarchs .. Father to 70 Sons of God Supreme .. YHWH one of these son's .. a son with a dark side.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ok. Please explain the malady and the remedy which produces the for laws prohibiting shatnez and/or kilayim in the age of Moses?



Please explain the malady and the remedy which produces the for laws prohibiting shatnez and/or kilayim in the age of Moses?

And.

What happened to that malady? Where did it go?

The purpose of Religious Laws in the Holy Books varies. These Laws fall in to different categories.

Some Laws are only meant to separate the believers of the Religion from others who disbelieved. An example of these Laws, is what you gave regarding prohibiting Shatnez, in my understanding is of this type. It has no other reason. There is no scientific reason.

Some Religious Laws, are Social Laws. For example, Punishment of stealing or the Laws of Marriage and divorce. punishment of fornication. Such Laws are meant to bring order in an Age for people, and are tailored to suit the conditions of the people of an Age, and as a new Age comes, they can be changed By God.
Then, there are some Laws, that are meant for spiritual growth Of individuals. For example praying and fasting are of this type. These Laws also may change by God in the Subsequent Age, as the needs of People may change.
That is my understanding from Baha'i scriptures.

 

[Ebionite]

Do you really think Moses spoke about himself when he delivered this message (quote below)?

I יהוה am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of bondage:​

You shall have no other gods besides Me.​

The speaker was identified as Moses then as Elohim and then as YHWH in the immediate context. Exodus 3 gives another example of YHWH speaking as Elohim, this relates to Exodus 19. Elohim has a plural nature relating to being and a singular nature relating to speech, Moses was part of that plural nature in Exodus 20:1.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet? He claims that the Angel Moroni guided him to the Golden Plates that were translated into the Book of Mormon, which says that Jesus came to the Americas.

Baha'is do not believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet, based upon what the Guardian wrote.

“Joseph Smith we do not consider a Prophet, minor or otherwise. Certainly no reference he made could have foretold the Coming of this Revelation in his capacity as a Prophet.” (Letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual, 21 Feb. 1942)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/c/collins_mormonism.pdf

Do you accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet? He claimed he was the Messiah and the Mahdi.

No, Baha'is do not believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a Prophet, because he made his claims after Baha'u'llah made His claims so he has to be a false prophet, based upon what Baha'u'llah wrote below.

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather, follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise. Erelong shall clamorous voices be raised in most lands. Shun them, O My people, and follow not the iniquitous and evil-hearted. This is that of which We gave you forewarning when We were dwelling in ‘Iráq, then later while in the Land of Mystery, and now from this Resplendent Spot.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 19-34

Worse yet was his claim to be the Messiah and the Mahdi.
Some Baha'is might think he was just deluded, but personally, I believe he was a liar and a deceiver and I hope he burns in hell for all the people he has deceived.

If you don't, does that make you close-minded?

No. It just means we have a rational mind.

 

[CG Didymus]

Do you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet? He claims that the Angel Moroni guided him to the Golden Plates that were translated into the Book of Mormon, which says that Jesus came to the Americas.

The point is... It is not being "open minded" to accept some of the other religions, or at least parts of them, and reject other religions or parts of some of the other religions.

And accepting and rejecting parts of some of the other religions is all that Baha'is are doing. I wouldn't imagine any Baha'i being able to say that they accept any of the other religions completely.

Even I accept some things about the Baha'i Faith and Christianity and reject some of the things. But the things I reject are of major importance. So, to a Baha'i or Christian, I might as well be rejecting their whole religion.

Now something I think is worth mentioning again is... Baha'is aren't expected to believe everything about the other religions, but I think they are expected to find the things they have in common with the other religions and focus on those. But, like so many of us, too many Baha'is seem to be focusing on the differences.

Makes for great debates/arguments... but not much in the way of bringing people with diverse religious beliefs together.