Why Jews and Christians do not accept Islam?

[Spice]

The quick answer from my perspective, is most humans are not that vested in sacrificing the world for the next world and religion is usually a thing of convenience to bond with people they know and is more geared towards dunya than abandoning it.

I see that, but I also see that in the Islamic communities, as well. It's the human nature, and the goal of all religions to live above, or separate, or at the highest level of human.

 

[Spice]

Where does it say in the Torah to follow traffic rules?

In the Noahide Laws.

 

[shunyadragon]

Understand that you gave a huge hill to climb before I consider anything you write credible.

It is your hill that is the problem arguing from the perspective of conflicting ancient scriptures without provenance.

You have not addressed the elephant in the room.

 

[shunyadragon]

The concept is relevant. When it was included in a collection of commentary is not.



The concept is relevant. When it was included in a collection of commentary is not.

Failure to respond to the problem to the contradictions of your own post.

Is Midrash meaningful at all in today's world?

I do not believe the believers of the ancient religions can justify their conflicting beliefs based on an ancient culture and time in the contemporary world.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You cannot debate it. I can.

OK

 

[Link]

In the Noahide Laws.

What do you mean?

 

[shunyadragon]

Understand that you gave a huge hill to climb before I consider anything you write credible.

To add, the subject of the thread is "Why Jews and Christians do not accept Islam?"

My posts are relevant to the issues of subject of the thread, especially #78.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's written in the Quran that God's law is not eternal. That's a deal breaker for me. It conflicts with the written Torah.

Naskh (tafsir) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So you believe whatever people of 3500 years ago were doing, we are supposed to do exactly as that.

 

[dybmh]

So you believe whatever people of 3500 years ago were doing, we are supposed to do exactly as that.

3500? Islam is roughly 1300 years old.

My objection is what's written and how it is applied. Even if the verses are reinterpreted, it's still written in the Quran. That's a problem for me. A prophet of God would know better.

As I mentioned to Link, the problem is easily solved. There are no perfect Prophets, because only God is perfect. It's as simple as that.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

3500? Islam is roughly 1300 years old.

My objection is what's written and how it is applied. Even if the verses are reinterpreted, it's still written in the Quran. That's a problem for me. A prophet of God would know better.

As I mentioned to Link, the problem is easily solved. There are no perfect Prophets, because only God is perfect. It's as simple as that.

This is what you have said:

"It's written in the Quran that God's law is not eternal. That's a deal breaker for me. It conflicts with the written Torah."

So, you are saying the Laws of God is supposed to be eternal if they are indeed from God. Right?

But the Laws of God come as a remedy for the people in an Age. As those conditions change from time to time, a different Law is required. It doesn't make sense to me, God gives a Law which is forever applicable and useful.

 

[dybmh]

So, you are saying the Laws of God is supposed to be eternal if they are indeed from God. Right?

Yes

But the Laws of God come as a remedy for the people in an Age

^^ Your Opinion ^^

 

[Spice]

What do you mean?

As you'll see, in the Covenant with Noah, establishment of laws and courts was a commandment that would cover traffic laws for the benefit of society.

Noahide Covenant

 

[Ebionite]

3500? Islam is roughly 1300 years old.

My objection is what's written and how it is applied. Even if the verses are reinterpreted, it's still written in the Quran. That's a problem for me. A prophet of God would know better.

As I mentioned to Link, the problem is easily solved. There are no perfect Prophets, because only God is perfect. It's as simple as that.

'God' is ambiguous. Prophets like Moses were literally part of Elohim (translated as 'God'). Exodus 19:25-20:2.

 

[dybmh]

'God' is ambiguous. Prophets like Moses were literally part of Elohim (translated as 'God'). Exodus 19:25-20:2.

No. That is wishful thinking. If you want to spend your time chasing that dream... I think you're setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

We've been through the faults in your gnosis on this subject before with those same verses. If you didn't listen then, I doubt you'll listen now. This is my last reply on this topic with you.

Put very simply: if you include the surrounding verses, you're 100% wrong.

 

[CG Didymus]

This neglects the problem of why Jews reject Christianity, Historically older religions do reject newer religions, because they do not fit the orthodox beliefs of their religion.

Of course, some not many Jews became Christians during the life of Jesus, and shortly after, but for the most part Christianity became Hellenist Roman religion and rejected by by far most Jews.

Early on, what do you think were the teachings of Jesus that should have convinced more Jews to believe that he was the Messiah?

Then at what point, do you think that Christians incorporated too many false beliefs into their teachings that a Jew would be making a wise decision to not convert to Christianity?

For Baha'is I would think that for sure when they made Jesus part of a Trinitarian God. But do you think that it was even before that? Like even with some of Paul's teachings?

 

[shunyadragon]

Early on, what do you think were the teachings of Jesus that should have convinced more Jews to believe that he was the Messiah?

I could not remotely answer that question as is concerning the teachings of Jesus. I believe that when Christianity became a Hellenist Roman religion and went on the offensive against Judaism

Then at what point, do you think that Christians incorporated too many false beliefs into their teachings that a Jew would be making a wise decision to not convert to Christianity?

When Christianity became a Hellenist Roman religion.

For Baha'is I would think that for sure when they made Jesus part of a Trinitarian God. But do you think that it was even before that? Like even with some of Paul's teachings?

Paul did begin the road to Hellenist Roman religion and yes the Trinitarian view of God was a major point of alienation of the Jews.

My view as a Baha'i is IF God exists God is a universal omnipotent all knowing God not definable from the perspective of any religion including the Baha'i view. My foundation belief is a Philosophical agnostic (everything we believe is in some way wrong) and Universalist (not UU) Philosophy. I question everything beyond the consistent evolving knowledge of science.

 

[GoodAttention]

Firstly, did you know that, when Muhammad was among people of Arabia, many of Arab Jews and Christians believed in Him? (Right or wrong?l

I can believe this to be true, the teachings of Muhammad would make sense to some Jews and Christians.

Secondly, why the Jews and Christians,.now do not believe in Muhammad?

Muhammad wants Jews to believe in Jesus, and wants Christians to believe Jesus was never God.

You don't need a history book to understand how monumental of a task that would be, especially in Arabic.

I think his message would have been better received in 200 or 300CE, but not during the time he lived.

 

[Ebionite]

No. That is wishful thinking.

No, it's fact. The Hebrew words El, Elah, and Elohim are all translated as 'God'.

 

[dybmh]

No, it's fact. The Hebrew words El, Elah, and Elohim are all translated as 'God'.

I said I wasn't going to reply... here I am replying.

What happens if you include the surrounding verses leading up to the transitional verses between Exo 19 and 20? Can you post those in a block and show me where Moses is an Elohim?

 

[Ebionite]

What happens if you include the surrounding verses leading up to the transitional verses between Exo 19 and 20? Can you post those in a block and show me where Moses is an Elohim?

And YHWH said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto YHWH to gaze, and many of them perish.
And let the priests also, which come near to YHWH, sanctify themselves, lest YHWH break forth upon them.
And Moses said unto YHWH, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.
And YHWH said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto YHWH, lest he break forth upon them.
So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.
Exodus 19:21-25

And Elohim spake all these words, saying,
I [am] YHWH thy Elah, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other Elohim before me.
Exodus 20:1-3