Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[YoursTrue]

The old and highly respected man is the head, and the prophet who gives false instruction is the tail. Isaiah 9:15

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 King James Version
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

So you are saying this means that God (or the "Godhead") is three 1/3's comprising one, is that right? Except somehow that 1/3 that Jesus was supposed to make up was not equal perhaps? Leaving 2/3 left. Once we clear that up, perhaps you can explain what happened to the "godhead" when Jesus said no one knows something except the Father -- ? the 1/3 Jesus supposedly comprises was not equal to ?? the other 2? or was it just the Father? Please explain if you will. or can. Tha

The old and highly respected man is the head, and the prophet who gives false instruction is the tail. Isaiah 9:15

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 King James Version
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

OK, I think I understand. It's a joke. Thanks.
nk you so much!

 

[Betho_br]

So you are saying this means that God (or the "Godhead") is three 1/3's comprising one, is that right? Except somehow that 1/3 that Jesus was supposed to make up was not equal perhaps? Leaving 2/3 left. Once we clear that up, perhaps you can explain what happened to the "godhead" when Jesus said no one knows something except the Father -- ? the 1/3 Jesus supposedly comprises was not equal to ?? the other 2? or was it just the Father? Please explain if you will. or can. Thank you so much!

Before, you could respond:

Mark 11:2 New King James Version (Matthew 21:5)
and He said to them, “Go into the village opposite you; and as soon as you have entered it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has sat. Loose it and bring it.

What was required by the Torah to use a donkey foal that had never been used?

 

[YoursTrue]

Before, you could respond:

Mark 11:2 New King James Version (Matthew 21:5)
and He said to them, “Go into the village opposite you; and as soon as you have entered it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has sat. Loose it and bring it.

What was required by the Torah to use a donkey foal that had never been used?

I don't know, maybe you can show me what was required by the Torah to use a donkey foal that had never been used.

 

[Betho_br]

I don't know, maybe you can show me what was required by the Torah to use a donkey foal that had never been used.

According to the Torah, specifically in Exodus 13:13 and 34:20, a foal of a donkey that has never been used must be redeemed with a lamb. If it is not redeemed, it must be sacrificed. This principle reflects a requirement for purification and consecration of animals for use.

At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him. John 12:16

What did they do to Jesus?

 

[Shaul]

I could repeat the many usual arguments Jews give. But I'd rather give you something to consider you probably haven't. One non-theological reason Jews don't "believe" in Jesus is the example given by Christians. If believing in Jesus makes people act like many Christians do, then that is a good reason to eschew it. No offense.
Shalom

 

[Ebionite]

Hello @Ebionite. Is that what you mean?

No, it is about capitis deminutio from Article 9 of the Anglican Articles of Religion, going back to Paul's misrepresentation of David's sin in Romans 3:4

 

[Betho_br]

I could repeat the many usual arguments Jews give. But I'd rather give you something to consider you probably haven't. One non-theological reason Jews don't "believe" in Jesus is the example given by Christians. If believing in Jesus makes people act like many Christians do, then that is a good reason to eschew it. No offense.
Shalom

In thousands of cases, you are right.

 

[Betho_br]

Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, affirming to the Jews that entry into eternal life was linked to the observance of the commandments. The Jews and Gentiles (From the region of Judea) converted to the God of Israel, being zealous for the Law, would adopt such practices. However, Saul, formerly zealous for the Law, found himself unable to participate in worship at the Jerusalem temple due to his persecution of the circumcised Church, as noted in Acts 21:20. Isolated, Paul addressed the Hellenists, as evidenced in Philippians 3:3: "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." This is a paradox; Jesus' mission was to guide the multitude, which was unfamiliar with the Law, to worship YHWH in the Jerusalem temple, following the Torah and the prophets. Gentiles living in other countries were only required to follow the directives of the Council of Jerusalem, in addition to the natural laws of their own countries. They were not obligated to live as Jews.

 

[Betho_br]

Acts 5:21-33 King James Version

And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought. But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned and told, Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.

Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow. Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

There are serious issues with Peter's preaching. The Jews had exhaustively questioned Jesus' authority during his ministry, and he had done everything to conceal his mission from the Jews, especially by associating with sinners. The Jews then demanded his death because he had made himself the Son of God (an elohim, a judge), supported by at least two miraculous signs, without the legitimation of the Jewish authorities, even though Jesus patiently explained that his kingdom was not of this world. Then Peter expounds to these Jewish leaders: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." This is evidently ambiguous. The correct phrase would be: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Master and a Saviour of lost sheep, for to give repentance to all the scattered people of Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

 

[Shaul]

Acts 5:21-33 King James Version

And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought. But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned and told, Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.

Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow. Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

There are serious issues with Peter's preaching. The Jews had exhaustively questioned Jesus' authority during his ministry, and he had done everything to conceal his mission from the Jews, especially by associating with sinners. The Jews then demanded his death because he had made himself the Son of God (an elohim, a judge), supported by at least two miraculous signs, without the legitimation of the Jewish authorities, even though Jesus patiently explained that his kingdom was not of this world. Then Peter expounds to these Jewish leaders: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." This is evidently ambiguous. The correct phrase would be: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Master and a Saviour of lost sheep, for to give repentance to all the scattered people of Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

Acts 5 is quite problematic for Christians, actually. Verses 34-39 continue with

But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

There are two significant problems there. First the dating for the book of Acts (30s C.E.) is well before the rebellion of Theudas which was circa 46 C.E. The second issue is that Gamaliel putatively advises not to persecute Christians. Yet Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) claimed to be both a follower of Gamaliel and also among the worst persecutors of the nascent Christians. Some "great follower" he was.

 

[Betho_br]

Acts 5 is quite problematic for Christians, actually. Verses 34-39 continue with

There are two significant problems there. First the dating for the book of Acts (30s C.E.) is well before the rebellion of Theudas which was circa 46 C.E. The second issue is that Gamaliel putatively advises not to persecute Christians. Yet Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) claimed to be both a follower of Gamaliel and also among the worst persecutors of the nascent Christians. Some "great follower" he was.

Each interpreted Jesus in his own way during his time, and after his death, interpreted it as they pleased, altered what was written, translated it as they pleased, and so humanity proceeded. What can be done...

 

[YoursTrue]

According to the Torah, specifically in Exodus 13:13 and 34:20, a foal of a donkey that has never been used must be redeemed with a lamb. If it is not redeemed, it must be sacrificed. This principle reflects a requirement for purification and consecration of animals for use.

At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him. John 12:16

1 Kings 1:33-40 brings out that Solomon the son of David rode to his anointing on his father's she-mule. It was also prophesied that the King of Israel would come riding on a she-***. That is at Zechariah 9:9.

 

[YoursTrue]

Acts 5 is quite problematic for Christians, actually. Verses 34-39 continue with

There are two significant problems there. First the dating for the book of Acts (30s C.E.) is well before the rebellion of Theudas which was circa 46 C.E. The second issue is that Gamaliel putatively advises not to persecute Christians. Yet Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) claimed to be both a follower of Gamaliel and also among the worst persecutors of the nascent Christians. Some "great follower" he was.

While uncorroborated, it is possible there were two Theudas. Wikipedia has an interesting article on this: Theudas - Wikipedia.

 

[YoursTrue]

Acts 5 is quite problematic for Christians, actually. Verses 34-39 continue with

There are two significant problems there. First the dating for the book of Acts (30s C.E.) is well before the rebellion of Theudas which was circa 46 C.E. The second issue is that Gamaliel putatively advises not to persecute Christians. Yet Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) claimed to be both a follower of Gamaliel and also among the worst persecutors of the nascent Christians. Some "great follower" he was.

Paul, formerly known as Saul, was a persecutor of Christians but realized by divine intervention that what he was doing was wrong. He changed his ways, realizing Jesus was the Messiah.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it is about capitis deminutio from Article 9 of the Anglican Articles of Religion, going back to Paul's misrepresentation of David's sin in Romans 3:4

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Anglican Articles of Religion, they may be imposed in some ways, I don't know. But how does Romans 3:4 misrepresent David's sin? Romans 3:4 says - (English Standard Version)
"By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”

 

[1213]

It's not easily translated to English. That's the problem. What is the opposite of Jehovah's will? To answer the question one would first need to answer this question:
What is Jehovah's will?

---

If I answer the question?
Jehovah's will = revelation
The opposite of Jehovah's will = oblivion
Avoirah = oblivious

Interesting, now I just wonder, is there direct word for sin.

 

[1213]

Proverbs has a different definition of who is righteous.
Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man stumbles seven times and rises again.

So the key here is not being perfect. Nor is it depending on someone else's righteousness. They key is repentance.

I think that is a good point. It is the reason why I think righteousness and sin are something else than just doing things in certain way. I have understood righteousness means wisdom of the just. It is possible that such a person makes a mistake, but the difference to non righteous is that a righteous person regrets and is sorry, when he sees he has done wrongly.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Generally speaking, a traditional religious (Judaism/Christianity) perspective either comes from ignorance or misinterpretation designed to support the tradition.

The distinction between Judaism and Christianity is fundamentally false. All religions ultimately help a person connect with God in their circumstance at the time when Moses was leading the Jews from Mitsrayim to Israel. At that point he created the laws and felt that following those laws will take a person towards God, which is most likely true. But circumstances changed and then Jesus took a totally different approach of submission to God directly rather than through laws both are in sync with each other and there is no need to place one against the other.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Ah, good day after Sabbath I believe. Not sure if your religion says it's ok to read these boards during Shabbos time. So just curious since you proclaim yourself as so smart -- regarding authoritative religious views -- why do you say conservative and reform Jews who like you also do not accept Christ as the Messiah (moshiach) are apostate?

I request both of you to stop maligning each other. The purpose of all religion is to take one towards God. But as yours two has said, that all religions degenerate into authoritative views and this authoritarianism has to be contested from time to time. So instead of pointing out the errors of either Judaism or Christianity. We should look at the common objective of both trying to take the person towards God.

 

[dybmh]

Interesting, now I just wonder, is there direct word for sin.

Me too. What's the Greek word translated as sin used in the Gospels?