Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Muffled]

There are no Jews who believe in Jesus. They are called Christians.

I believe the term Jews refers to an ethnicity and the religion so it gets confusing. I met an ethnic Jew who was Rosicrucian and another one that was Wiccan. The latter was the last in his family since most of them died in the holocaust.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe we should not but it will happen anyway..

Mmm .. it will happen anyway .. but that doesn't stop us warning people of
the consequences of evil.
i.e. trying to stop it

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe we should not but it will happen anyway. War is never a good thing and the terrible losses of life to the sword of Jesus are hard to imagine.

Mmm .. it will happen anyway .. but that doesn't stop us warning people of
the consequences of evil.
i.e. trying to stop it

Both of you have stated your religious beliefs as if they were absolute truth.

I understand that this is what you believe, but just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean it is.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Both of you have stated your religious beliefs as if they were absolute truth.

I understand that this is what you believe, but just because you believe it to be true doesn't mean it is.

That's right .. re. armageddon, don't you watch the news?

 

[Quagmire]

Eilana, I'm not sure if you will read this this message, but, if you do, I think it would be good for you to consider, and maybe share, what you hoped to gain from coming here. What were you hoping for? What were you expecting?

---

@Quagmire , I think it's really important for new members to have realistic expectations for what they are going to experience here on the forum. Lacking that, feelings get hurt, people get frustrated, conflict ensues, rules get broken, posts get reported, it's not good for anyone. The URL / domain name doesn't capture it.

Yeah, if I had my way I would have changed the name a long time ago. I always thought Civilization and Theology had a nice ring to it.

The mission statement is an ideal which is rarely actualized in practice.

Hey you know what? You're talking to somebody who's spent several hours of his life every week for the last 16 years trying to make sure that this place actually does live up to those ideals.

To you and to anybody who liked your post all I have to say is: to whatever extent this place is failing to live up to the mission statement maybe you should look in the mirror.

Yeah I know, I might as well have told you, "Maybe you should sprout wings out of your ears and fly to the moon".

The little invite message for new members? That doesn't set realistic expectations for this website either.

I've been thinking about changing that too. I was thinking I could start sending newcomers a link to your posts and tell them, "See what this guy is doing? Don't do that".

 

[dybmh]

You're talking to somebody who's spent several hours of his life every week for the last 16 years trying to make sure that this place actually does live up to those ideals.

My post in no way undermines appreciation for your effort or the effort of others. The website is what it is because it is built the way it is built. The staff are wonderful here, but, that doesn't change what I wrote. There is not one drop of criticism in my post. I said what I said and nothing else.

 

[dybmh]

Yes, people reap what they sow, but some will call foul when they are treated in kind.

I respectfully invite you to re-read Eliana's introductory post and listen to the spirit of her words. If anyone can understand, you can.

 

[Quagmire]

My post in no way undermines appreciation for your effort or the effort of others. The website is what it is because it is built the way it is built. The staff are wonderful here, but, that doesn't change what I wrote. There is not one drop of criticism in my post. I said what I said and nothing else.

Ah I see, you tagged me at the beginning of that post to let me know that nothing you were going to say had anything to do with me.

 

[GoodAttention]

That's not what I meant. Pagan is not an insult. It's just different. Apostate is also not an insult. Infidel is an insult. However, if a person wants to be perceived as Jewish or perceived as credible in regard to practicing Judaism, or perceived as knowledgeable regarding Jewish concepts, calling them an apostate and/ or pagan will be insulting to them. And, certainly, those words can be used as verbal projectiles. But we need these words, We need to be able to distinguish between Jewish monotheism and Paganism. We need to be able to distinguish between a practicing Jew, and one who is off the path and into the weeds. It doesn't matter if the person is insulted, their behavior and the distinctions exist. Ignoring those differences and distinctions is at best is messy at worst very harmful and destructive.

I've only heard Jews and Christians use the word pagan, and never to a Muslim. I call myself a pagan when communicating with those of the Abrahamic faiths, but it is a form of appeasement. I suppose it isn't insulting but when I hear it addressed to me what I am truly hearing is heretic, blasphemer, or unbeliever. In my opinion it's y'all that are pagans, but I don't deem it necessarry to use the word to differentiate.

Water off a duck's back, but I can see how, when it is used within the Abrahamic faiths, it can certainly rattle cages. But then again y'all as so emotionally and spiritually invested these words becomes badges of honor rather than tools for communication. Using the words "non-adherent Jew" rather than apostate creates a constructive debate which should be considered first.

As a side question, what is the Hebrew word for apostate?

 

[GoodAttention]

Hey you know what? You're talking to somebody who's spent several hours of his life every week for the last 16 years trying to make sure that this place actually does live up to those ideals.

Much appreciated, even if I have only been here for over a month.

 

[dybmh]

Using the words "non-adherent Jew" rather than apostate creates a constructive debate which should be considered first.

@Jayhawker Soule , which would you prefer? Apostate or Non-Adherent Jew?

As a side question, what is the Hebrew word for apostate?

There's several words. The one I use is completely innocuous. I wonder if you'll even believe me if I tell you.

They are Minim. Literally: "Types" or "Kinds". In English, we would call them "factions" or "divisions". The word first appears in Genesis. For me this is consistent, because, those I am referring to are dividers. They are dividing the Torah. They are not uniters. They create conflict and divide. And ultimately the necessity for dividing and the conflict remind me a lot of the religion which is typically referred to as Pagan at the time when the Torah was written in that region.

 

[GoodAttention]

There's several words. The one I use is completely innocuous. I wonder if you'll even believe me if I tell you.

They are Minim. Literally: "Types" or "Kinds". In English, we would call them "factions" or "divisions". The word first appears in Genesis. For me this is consistent, because, those I am referring to are dividers. They are dividing the Torah. They are not uniters. They create conflict and divide. And ultimately the necessity for dividing and the conflict remind me a lot of the religion which is typically referred to as Pagan at the time when the Torah was written in that region.

Now I wonder if you will believe me when I tell you the Sanskrit "min" with Hebrew "im" would render it "possessions" or perhaps "those that hold together", or "united".

 

[dybmh]

Now I wonder if you will believe me when I tell you the Sanskrit "min" with Hebrew "im" would render it "possessions" or perhaps "those that hold together", or "united".

Let's apply that to individuals? They are possessions? He/She/They are a possession? Bound? Forced? Bondage?

 

[GoodAttention]

Let's apply that to individuals? They are possessions? He/She/They are a possession? Bound? Forced? Bondage?

We can, but when you read possessions you would automatically think "of God". They are separated, or divided, but remain "owned", "created", and most importantly "subordinate".

It is very interesting that you say that the first use of the word is in Genesis, which I presume is when God separates light from darkness. This is very significant to me because I consider the darkness to be the primordial sound of the universe.

We can discuss further another time.

 

[dybmh]

We can discuss further another time.

Sounds good

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Jayhawker Soule , which would you prefer? Apostate or Non-Adherent Jew?

That very much depends on who's using the term. I'm fine with apostate being used by the Orthodox. For others, I would prefer non-observant. I find non-adherent to be awkward, but that may be because I've not previously encountered the term.

 

[dybmh]

That very much depends on who's using the term. I'm fine with apostate being used by the Orthodox. For others, I would prefer non-observant. I find non-adherent to be awkward, but that may be because I've not previously encountered the term.

More simply stated: "non-observant" is preferred?

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

Jews of our time can never believe in Christian-Jesus as Christianity people make "Jesus-god" and or literal/physical "son of god" which he never was, right, please?
Yes, Yeshua was the Israelite Messiah as Maryam aka Mary was informed by G-d even before he was born:

3:50
“And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
____________________
3:50
۬ۙ اَنِّیۡ قَدۡ جِئۡتُکُمۡ بِاٰیَۃٍ مِّنۡ رَّبِّکُمۡ ۙ اَنِّیۡۤ اَخۡلُقُ لَکُمۡ مِّنَ الطِّیۡنِ کَہَیۡـَٔۃِ الطَّیۡرِ فَاَنۡفُخُ فِیۡہِ فَیَکُوۡنُ طَیۡرًۢا بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُبۡرِیٴُ الۡاَکۡمَہَ وَالۡاَبۡرَصَ وَاُحۡیِ الۡمَوۡتٰی بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُنَبِّئُکُمۡ بِمَا تَاۡکُلُوۡنَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُوۡنَ ۙ فِیۡ بُیُوۡتِکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ فِیۡ ذٰلِکَ لَاٰیَۃً لَّکُمۡ اِنۡ کُنۡتُمۡ مُّؤۡمِنِیۡنَ ﴿ۚ۵۰

 

[dybmh]

And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel

... a Messenger ...

Yeshua was the Israelite Messiah

... The Messiah ...

Yes,

No. A messenger is not necessarily The Messiah.

 

[Betho_br]

Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

Jews of our time can never believe in Christian-Jesus as Christianity people make "Jesus-god" and or literal/physical "son of god" which he never was, right, please?
Yes, Yeshua was the Israelite Messiah as Maryam aka Mary was informed by G-d even before he was born:

3:50
“And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
____________________
3:50
۬ۙ اَنِّیۡ قَدۡ جِئۡتُکُمۡ بِاٰیَۃٍ مِّنۡ رَّبِّکُمۡ ۙ اَنِّیۡۤ اَخۡلُقُ لَکُمۡ مِّنَ الطِّیۡنِ کَہَیۡـَٔۃِ الطَّیۡرِ فَاَنۡفُخُ فِیۡہِ فَیَکُوۡنُ طَیۡرًۢا بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُبۡرِیٴُ الۡاَکۡمَہَ وَالۡاَبۡرَصَ وَاُحۡیِ الۡمَوۡتٰی بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُنَبِّئُکُمۡ بِمَا تَاۡکُلُوۡنَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُوۡنَ ۙ فِیۡ بُیُوۡتِکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ فِیۡ ذٰلِکَ لَاٰیَۃً لَّکُمۡ اِنۡ کُنۡتُمۡ مُّؤۡمِنِیۡنَ ﴿ۚ۵۰

John 12:20-36
And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

James 1:17-18 Young's Literal Translation
every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, or shadow of turning; having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures.

1) The concept of "Word of Truth" is in the Torah, it is in Isaiah, and it is also in the Septuagint: The Logos of Truth.

2) Jesus' words are above Pauline theology, he was confronted by the Greeks with a question about the Messiah expected by the Jews, what did Jesus respond? Did Jesus quote verses from the Hebrew Bible in response? Before, Jesus had not used expressions of Egyptian origin in his speech to the Greeks such as "son of man", "the death of the grain of wheat", "the light", these are doctrines foreign to the Hebrew Bible, Jesus is this Messiah.

3) I would venture to say that this concept of Jesus as "the Word" must also be in the holy book of Muslims. But I am not an ACADEMIC SPECIALIZED in the holy book.