Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Ehav4Ever]

A race, then .. in your opinion.

..so G-d is a racist?

No and no, for one simple reason. Race, in English, can include ethnicity as a part of it but it doesn't have to. Ethnicity, by definition, includes things that race doesn't always include such as a nationality, common language, common cultural practices, etc.

In terms of your second question, a better consider would be that every nation / ethnicity on the planet has a mission / purpose on this planet. The Jewish mission / slash purpose is to keep and do the Torah that was given at Mount Sinai. No different than how different segments of a military exist with different functions. i.e. Ground units, Air units, Sea units, special forces, intelligence, etc.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In ancient Hebrew, the concept of faith that you are describing doesn't exist in the Torah..

I don't understand .. the Torah is a Scripture about G-d and those who had faith in G-d.

Naturally, I understand the concept of a 'Christian nation' or 'Jewish nation'.
It's about roots, yes .. but G-d is concerned about our faith .. our sincerity, and not our roots, IMO.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Racism is a form of prejudice that generally includes negative emotional reactions to members of a group, acceptance of negative stereotypes, and racial discrimination against individuals; in some cases it can lead to violence.​

​

Yes .. including ethnic minorities etc.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I don't understand .. the Torah is a Scripture about G-d and those who had faith in G-d.

According to both the Oral tradition / Torah and the written Torah (in Hebrew) - the Torah is the instruction that the Source of reality gave to the Israeli / Jewish people with which to build national / social society with. The Torah is the foundation of said Israeli / Jewish nation / society. It is more along the lines of combining the following words (تعليمات) + (تقليد) + (إسناد) + (إجماع) + (كتاب) + (الأمة) + the (اتفاق) of the Source of reality with the Israeli / Jewish people = Torah.

All other nations of the planet were given 7 mitzvoth which to build the foundation of their cultures.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Naturally, I understand the concept of a 'Christian nation' or 'Jewish nation'.

In reality, Christianity does not have a national element, they never did. There is no specific location that was considered, within the new testament, as the seat of a Christian nation. Even when elements of the Roman empire converted to Christainity, it was never a mandate for all Christians to be nation, at least not on the earthly plane. That is why today, for example, even if Catholicism has its headquarters in the Vatican that is by no means consistant in all of Christinity and there new testament never mentions it as the seat of their headquarters with no actual actions to be done in that particular location.

I think the idea you are describing, as a nation, is more along the lines of "the house of Christianity" rather than the physical nation of the Christains - with a national language, judicial system, and social structure.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

It's about roots, yes .. but G-d is concerned about our faith .. our sincerity, and not our roots, IMO.

No, it isn't about roots, in the way you mentioned. It is more like each nation / type of people in the world having an area of expertise or focus. The Israeli / Jewish expertise or focus is the Torah that given to Israeli / Jewish within the confines of a national revelation and not a personal one.

Where the non-Jewish world has the 7 mitzvoth which can be national in nature but do not require any particular location in order to do most of them. In contrast Israelis / Jews have a very specific location and set of conditions required to do a large number of the 613 mitzvoths that the Creator gave at Mount Sinai to Israelis / Jews.

Thus, when the non-Jewish world is keeping the 7 mizvoth (also called Noachide laws) they are being sincere to the Creator of all things. When Israelis / Jews are keeping the 613 mitzvoth, in the way that the Creator commanded it at Mount Sinai, then we Israelis / Jews are being sincere to the Creator. Kind of like how a good soldier in the Army is different than a good soldier in the Navy. They are both good soldiers but are a part of two different branches with differing standards.

 

[muhammad_isa]

According to both the Oral tradition / Torah and the written Torah (in Hebrew) - the Torah is the instruction that the Source of reality gave to the Israeli / Jewish people with which to build national / social society with. The Torah is the foundation of said Israeli / Jewish nation / society..

I have never argued that it isn't. I was merely pointing out, that G-d is more concerned
about our sincerity i.e. faith/beliefs than our ethnic roots.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Where the non-Jewish world has the 7 mitzvoth which can be national in nature but do not require any particular location in order to do most of them. In contrast Israelis / Jews have a very specific location and set of conditions required to do a large number of the 613 mitzvoths that the Creator gave at Mount Sinai to Israelis / Jews.

That's total nonsense .. political maps are constantly being redrawn.

Saudi Arabia, for example, has had a series of administrations from Iraq to Turkey.
One does not have to live in Israel to be a Jew,
and neither does a Muslim need to live in Saudi to be a Muslim.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I have never argued that it isn't. I was merely pointing out, that G-d is more concerned
about our sincerity i.e. faith/beliefs than our ethnic roots.

Again, the difference is that Jews, as a part of the Israeli / Jewish sincerity to the Creator of all things, are required to maintain ethnic roots since it is a part of the requirements the Creator commanded when the Torah was given. I will agree that there are some who hold up the ethnic roots above the mitzvoth that the Israeli / Jewish nation was given by the Creator at Mount Sinai. Yet, the reality is that both were given hand and hand, for Israelis / Jews to uphold as a part of the national / social requirements.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

That's total nonsense .. political maps are constantly being redrawn.
Saudi Arabia, for example, has had a series of administrations from Iraq to Turkey.
One does not have to live in Israel to be a Jew,
and neither does a Muslim need to live in Saudi to be a Muslim.

I agree with you that Muslims, as a part of Islam, have no requirements for any particular nationality to be located in any particular place. Further, the 7 mitzvoth / Noachide place no specific mitzvoth on any particular location for non-Jews. Within the Noachide laws, national borders are established by those who manage or lead said Noachide nations.

Yet, the 613 mitzvoth of the Torah, which the Creator gave to Israelis / Jews at Mount Sinai do include many mitzvoth that requirement their performance to be done in a particular location. So, as we both stated, ancestrally one can be a Jew and not be in the land of Israel. YET, if someone wants to perform the mitzvoth of Ma'aser to the Kohanim, that can only be done in the land of Israel once the mitzvoth of the Beith HaMiqdash are in place. Thus, a large portion of the Torah requires a particular national and territorial status to be in place for Israelis / Jews to even do them.

Noachides, don't have such requirements of Ma'aser to Kohanim in a particular location. Thus, a Muslim - according to Islamic law, has no requirement to live in Saudia Arabia because it was never establishe in Islamic law that such a thing was even necessary. Thus, the reason that Saudia Arabia has very particular laws, even for Muslims, of who can even travel there let alone live there and there is no concept of all Muslims living there in the future.

 

[RabbiO]

So going back to the earlier question of why it matters whether @YoursTrue is born of a Jewish mom, it is because (since we already know he is not a convert) it determines whether or not he is a Jew.

We also already know that "he" is a woman.

 

[RabbiO]

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. There are not two kinds of Jews. Only one. A Jew is anyone who is born of a Jewish mom (by far the most common) or (in rare cases) someone who is adopted into the People of Israel via a formal conversion. All Jews are simply Jews, regardless of whether they are born Jews or converts. IOW born Jews and convert Jews are the same kind of Jews. They are not more or less Jewish based on their level of religious observance. Some Jews practice Judaism, other Jews do not. In both cases they are equally Jewish.

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew, but who is a Jew?

As you know, however, Orthodoxy does not recognize conversions conducted under non-Orthodox auspices to be valid conversions. Further, as I am sure you know, there are some, not all, non-Orthodox groups that do recognize as Jews those who are only of patrilineal descent under certain circumstances.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

Jews of our time can never believe in Christian-Jesus as Christianity people make "Jesus-god" and or literal/physical "son of god" which he never was, right, please?
Yes, Yeshua was the Israelite Messiah as Maryam aka Mary was informed by G-d even before he was born:

3:50
“And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search​

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.
www.alislam.org
Arabic original
3:50
۬ۙ اَنِّیۡ قَدۡ جِئۡتُکُمۡ بِاٰیَۃٍ مِّنۡ رَّبِّکُمۡ ۙ اَنِّیۡۤ اَخۡلُقُ لَکُمۡ مِّنَ الطِّیۡنِ کَہَیۡـَٔۃِ الطَّیۡرِ فَاَنۡفُخُ فِیۡہِ فَیَکُوۡنُ طَیۡرًۢا بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُبۡرِیٴُ الۡاَکۡمَہَ وَالۡاَبۡرَصَ وَاُحۡیِ الۡمَوۡتٰی بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ وَاُنَبِّئُکُمۡ بِمَا تَاۡکُلُوۡنَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُوۡنَ ۙ فِیۡ بُیُوۡتِکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ فِیۡ ذٰلِکَ لَاٰیَۃً لَّکُمۡ اِنۡ کُنۡتُمۡ مُّؤۡمِنِیۡنَ ﴿ۚ۵۰

No. A messenger is not necessarily The Messiah.

But the Messiah has to be necessarily a Prophet/Messenger of G-d, right, please?

Right?

Regards

 

[Eliana]

I loathe returning to this thread but I will make an exception. Firstly Jew is not a race, the semitic people which today consists of Arabs, Middle Eastern Jews and most people from the Middle East in general, are. This is regardless of if they are Jew or not.

The Ethiopian and Ashkenazi Jews, who are not semitic, are just as Jewish as any other Jews. Halakha also states that anyone who converts to Judaism is just as Jewish as someone who can trace their lineage back to Abraham.

Your welcome.

 

[GoodAttention]

I loathe returning to this thread but I will make an exception. Firstly Jew is not a race, the semitic people which today consists of Arabs, Middle Eastern Jews and most people from the Middle East in general, are. This is regardless of if they are Jew or not.

The Ethiopian and Ashkenazi Jews, who are not semitic, are just as Jewish as any other Jews. Halakha also states that anyone who converts to Judaism is just as Jewish as someone who can trace their lineage back to Abraham.

Your welcome.

Welcome back.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew, but who is a Jew?

As you know, however, Orthodoxy does not recognize conversions conducted under non-Orthodox auspices to be valid conversions. Further, as I am sure you know, there are some, not all, non-Orthodox groups that do recognize as Jews those who are only of patrilineal descent under certain circumstances.

Yes I understand that. I'm not going to fully reply, since I feel that this is not an appropriate forum for me to raise antagonisms between different Jewish groups. Suffice it to say that I personally think the Orthodox are mistaken on their rejection of other versions of Judaism, that I find the Reform irritating for not converting those born of Jewish fathers only, and that I view all the branches of Judaism as legitimate.

The heart of my argument is that a Jew can either be born one naturally or be a convert, and that either way they are fully Jewish and in the say way. That there is not one kind of Jew who is ethnic and a different kind of Jew who is a convert. And that is something that every branch of Judaism teaches.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I know there are Jews who believe in Jesus because I've met some of them, and I have no reason to assume they are apostates just because another Jewish person on an internet forum firmly insists they are. Of course, we're all entitled to our own personal opinions, but at the end of the day, they are just that: opinions. Also, Rule 8 of this forum prohibits us from stating our personal religious beliefs as definitive facts in any case. So there's that to consider, too.

The problem you have though, is that the definition of apostate is defined by the sources and the group that the person claims to be from. For example, by claiming to be a Jew one is using a term that means something. If a term means something it is only logical that it also doesn't mean something.

Thus, the concept of being a apostate - when dealing with Jews - has some sources that it comes from. If one goes through all ancient Jewish sources, starting at the Torah, one finds that beleif in Jesus has historically designated such person as outside of the Jewish community, and outside of the standards set in the Torah.

I started a thread in the Orthodox Judaism DIR that addresses Jewish sources, throughout history, that address this issue. It may help.

How the concept of Apostates is addressed in Torah / Halakha

A question was asked in another thread, "what is the Hebrew word for apostate?" I responded in that thread, but I want to expand on the answer I gave. Before I begin, I would like to state that this thread will full of actually sources from within thousands of years of Torah based information...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Kenny]

In reality, Christianity does not have a national element, they never did. There is no specific location that was considered, within the new testament, as the seat of a Christian nation. Even when elements of the Roman empire converted to Christainity, it was never a mandate for all Christians to be nation, at least not on the earthly plane. That is why today, for example, even if Catholicism has its headquarters in the Vatican that is by no means consistant in all of Christinity and there new testament never mentions it as the seat of their headquarters with no actual actions to be done in that particular location.

I think the idea you are describing, as a nation, is more along the lines of "the house of Christianity" rather than the physical nation of the Christains - with a national language, judicial system, and social structure.

There is a truth here!

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Let's agree, the scriptures of the Jews are the scriptures of the Christians. The Tanakh: the Torah, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim are also the scriptures of the Christian.​

I would actually argue that this statement is not really true. I would reword it in the following way.

Let's agree, that the Hebrew Tanakh of the Jews is considered scripture by Christians - that is by way of translation. The Tanakh: the Torah, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim of the Jews is respected by Christians, BUT most Christians in the world are taught to engage the Tanakh by way of "tailored" Christian translations (commonly called the Bible) and also by using the exegesis of the New Testament. For Jews, there are a larger number of Jews who engage in the Tanakh in Hebrew, the language it was written in. Due to Jews, more than naught, having the ability to engage the Tanakh in the language it was written in and Jews being descedants of those mentioned in the texts as well as those Israelis / Jews who preserved it - Jews have the ability to engage the Tanakh in ways that most Christians have no access to.​

​

It is because of the above that the vast majority of Jews, throughout history, do not engage in the new testament in terms of study, belief, or even consideration of relevance. With this being said, most Jews do not have any concept of or interest in trying to convert Christians out of Christianity. Most Jews also have no concept of trying to convince Christians about anything.​

​

This, I think is a better summary.

I hope that helps.

 

[Kenny]

I loathe returning to this thread but I will make an exception. Firstly Jew is not a race, the semitic people which today consists of Arabs, Middle Eastern Jews and most people from the Middle East in general, are. This is regardless of if they are Jew or not.

The Ethiopian and Ashkenazi Jews, who are not semitic, are just as Jewish as any other Jews. Halakha also states that anyone who converts to Judaism is just as Jewish as someone who can trace their lineage back to Abraham.

Your welcome.

Totally! Would it be correct to see Ruth and Rahab as Jewish ?