Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Muffled]

What does that mean? You mean the memory I have today will be erased by tomorrow?

I believe it won't be totally erased, just eliminated from current retrieval. I have forgotten half my life already anyway, so it does not seem like a big deal tome.

 

[Muffled]

I'm not asking a question .. I'm explaining to you my views.
One can be Christian by birth, but not by faith.
The same goes for Jews etc.

I agree many people have the label without believing the central message. However often enough the label comes with some knowledge.

 

[Muffled]

A race, then .. in your opinion.

..so G-d is a racist?

I believe it is difficult to think that way when the people were formed from the earth. You can't get much lower than that but then God has always picked the least likely people except for Saul who was meant to be an object lesson in what is wrong with picking the likely person.

 

[Trailblazer]

Interesting. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, that leads to truth.

No, the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. That is a Christian belief based upon how Christians interpret the Bible.

Baha'is believe that the Spirit of truth is a title for Baha'u'llah because He brought the Holy Spirit.

The Counselor (Comforter) is a title for Jesus and Baha'u'llah.

Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

(Why do you think that Jesus said "whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him?"
I surmise that maybe it was because Baha'u'llah had not come into the world at the time Jesus said this.)

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Baha'u'llah did everything that Jesus said the Comforter would do.
He taught all things and brought what Jesus had said to our remembrance and He testified of Jesus.

Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86

And the reason why you believe that is?

I do not have to believe it because I know it, since it is history.
Not only did those who knew Baha'u'llah chronicle the history, historians wrote about Baha'u'llah.

Edward Granville Browne was a European historian who met Baha'u'llah and interviewed Him.

These words Abdu’l-Baha wrote to Edward Granville Browne about his interviews with Baha’u’llah in 1890. From one of these interviews emanated the description of meeting Baha’u’llah famous in the Baha’i community, which you can listen to here.

Edward Granville Browne: The Only European Historian Who Met Baha’u’llah | Baha'i Blog

You should appreciate this, that of all the historians of Europe none attained the holy Threshold but you. This bounty was specified unto you. ((H. M. Balyuzi, Edward Granville Browne and the Baha'i Faith (1970), p. 122)) These words Abdu'l-Baha wrote to Edward Granville Browne about his...

www.bahaiblog.net

If correctly understood, they are the same.

Some of what Paul said is the same but much of it is different.

But the important point is that Paul made Jesus into someone He never was.

Paul showed little interest in the teachings of Jesus.

The doctrine of Redemption which is central to Christianity is something of which Jesus knew nothing.
Jesus died for our sins but that is not the same as a need for redemption from an original sin committed by Adam and Eve.
The need for redemption from original sin is a Christian doctrine. Jesus never spoke of it.

“That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few......

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest. It is disputed whether in all his epistles he makes two, three or four references to sayings by Jesus. (231) It is not Jesus’ teaching, which he cannot himself have heard at all (short of hearing it in a vision), that is central to his own mission, but the person of the Redeemer and His death on the Cross.......

Jesus, who never claimed religious worship for himself was not worshipped in the original community, is for Paul the pre-existent risen Christ….
This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity: that Paul with his ‘Gospel’, which became the core of Christian dogma formation, conquered the world, (237) while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy….

Pauline heresy served as the basis for Christian orthodoxy, and the legitimate Church was outlawed as heretical’. (240) The ‘small handful of true Christians’ was Nazarene Christianity, which was already extinct in the fourth century…...

The centerpiece then, of Christian creedal doctrine, that of Redemption, is something of which—in the judgment of the theologian E. Grimm (244) --- Jesus himself knew nothing; and it goes back to Paul. “
(Udo Schaefer, Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ )

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

Jesus is now worshiped as God, not only because of Paul, but because of the Church, but Paul had a part in it by glorifying Jesus.
Yet Jesus never claimed to be God and Jesus said:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

 

[Hawkins]

Christianity is about how a piece of news is broadcast.

If the US government has a crucial message for its citizens, it won't broadcast through a Russan media. It should broadcast through a mass media covering the whole US.

By the same token, if God has a crucial message for humans, it should broadcast through a mass media covering all mankind. Explicitly, the gospel (news) must be preached (broadcast) to all nations. Christianity itself is a mission of human-facing broadcast.

Judaism had its chance to be such a human-facing media for broadcasting, the Jews missed it! Judaism now is like, "the US government has a crucial message but only broadcasts it in Russia!" Basically it's only Jews-facing.

 

[Trailblazer]

By the same token, if God has a crucial message for humans, it should broadcast through a mass media covering all mankind. Explicitly, the gospel (news) must be preached (broadcast) to all nations. Christianity itself is a mission of human-facing broadcast.

The gospel message had been preached to all nations by the mid-19th century...
Now what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

True, thanks and good information for all,

Why do you think that Jesus said "whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him?"
“I do have faith! Please help me to have even more.” is the logic we see from “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”
Because to me in logic and by the power of the Holy Spirit, we receive the Power the Holy Spirit Person through the Person of Jesus, the deliverer of the Holy Spirit in being through the person of Jesus, through The Christ, in the flesh manifested by the power of The Holy Spirit Person for the souls of all as united, shared as one in being for all mankind.

In logic, below is the Holy Spirit Person:
“Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him” is a quote from the King James Version of the Bible, John 14:17. The full verse reads, “even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”. In logic, the Holy Spirit becomes the New Spirit Person in the Christ for all mankind as shared in being as one. In logic, the Will of the Father is the Holy Spirit Will in person that is the fulfilled faith and morality through The Christ in all.

In logic, the Holy Spirit being, whom we cannot see is the Person in being of the becoming transformed Holy Spirit manifesting Our Flesh, our own Body of Christ to become again transfigured into the image of the Father, by the Person of the Creator God. Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and God the Father are all God, as one God in being, together.

In logic, Jesus also says that believers know the Spirit of truth because it remains with them continually, logically part of the Christ in man, flesh in sanctified mankind, logically our own personal Pentecost, immortal flesh and Holy Spirit Person in the soul of the transformed being, and able to become glorified and transfigured as Christ as well pleasing to God in Body, spirit and flesh, and the Holy Spirit Person will be in them. The Paraclete is also a reference to the Holy Spirit person, in being.

We receive the Power of the Holy Spirit Being in Our Soul, Jesus left behind from the cross as the "Ghost" he gave up. The Ghost is the Person of the Holy Spirit that existed before creation as the Word. And the Word became flesh in the person of Jesus we do not receive, we become Our own Christ from sharing The Holy Spirit in Person in our Body of Our Christ. And logically we become again by the Power of the Holy Spirit Person in Our Soul to manifest eternally glorified and transfigured becoming the Image of the Creator, God by the Person of the Father.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think that Jesus said "whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him?"

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I believe that the Spirit of truth was a title for Baha'u'llah, who brought the Holy Spirit of God into this world.

As such, I surmise that maybe Jesus said what is bolded above because Baha'u'llah had not come into the world at the time Jesus said what is in John 14:17.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you for your comments, I__

No, you are correct, Constantine said he had no part in arriving at the doctrine. He only ratified the counsel's work on "the scriptures of the Christians" and decreed their "canon" of Christianity, "The New Testament," to be law for all people, Christian and pagan, under his jurisdiction.

Since the Council of Nicea NEVER determined any list of books for New Testament canon, it follows that Constantine never ratified any such list.

Here are the ecumenicals that actually DID discuss which books, and ultimately determined NT canon:

1. Council of Laodicea (c. 363–364 CE): This regional council, held in Laodicea in Phrygia (modern Turkey), issued a list of canonical books. Canon 60 of this council lists 26 New Testament books, excluding Revelation. However, there is some debate over the authenticity of Canon 60, as it is not found in all manuscript traditions.
2. Synod of Hippo (393 CE): Held in North Africa, this synod listed the 27 books of the New Testament canon as we have them today. Although it was a regional council, its decisions had a lasting influence on the church's understanding of the canon.
3. Councils of Carthage (397 and 419 CE): These councils, also held in North Africa, reaffirmed the decision of the Synod of Hippo. The canon lists from these councils are among the earliest to include the 27 New Testament books.
4. Council of Rome (382 CE): Although not ecumenical, this council, led by Pope Damasus I, issued a decree that included the 27 books of the New Testament, affirming their authority and use within the Church.

He also says he spent "many long years" in the hells for his thoughts and actions before learning of and realizing Jesus' teachings of the Re-birth to Divinity and Immortality which could be received by anyone (mortal or spirit) seeking it through earnest prayer and meditation. He is now in the Kingdom of God.

Constantine says he never when on earth accepted Christianity. Is now a Celestial Spirit

Excuse me? Your first paragraph describes how he came to be a Christian, then your latter comment indicates he never became a Christian.

When I came into the spirit world, I found myself in great darkness and suffering, realizing that I had to pay the penalties for the sins thought and committed by me on earth…I knew nothing about the Divine Love or the mission of Jesus in coming to earth, and I found that my sins had not been washed away as the teachers had often told me on earth would be done for me. Many long years I remained in this condition of darkness and unhappiness, without finding any relief by reason of the mystical workings of Jesus’ atonement of which the priests had told me, and which I did not believe, nor the help of the gods in whom I had been taught to believe by our philosophers and religious teachers…But after a time the light of the truth, which Jesus came to teach, broke in on my understanding and soul, and the Divine Love of the Father commenced to flow into my soul and continued until I became a possessor of it to that degree that I was carried (gradually through the the six spiritual spheres) to the Celestial Spheres (The Kingdom of God), where I now am, a redeemed pure and immortal soul, having undoubting knowledge and conviction that I possess in my soul the Divine Essence of the Father, and the certainty of eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom. 9/5/1916

I really tried to track down your quote, using multiple search engines and AI's. I found bupkes. Apparently Constantine never said this.

You seem to base your opinions entirely on a particular book (which you have linked to more than once). I think you need to remember that not all books are reliable. The fact that it's published does not prove its claims, or even its "quotes."

A notable example of a non-fiction book that has been criticized for gross inaccuracies is "The Bell Curve" by Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray. Published in 1994, the book discusses intelligence and its relationship with social outcomes. It has been heavily criticized for its methodological flaws, questionable data interpretations, and controversial conclusions about race and intelligence.

A prominent example of a non-fiction book that has been criticized for fabricating quotes is "The New Diary" by Tristine Rainer. In this 1978 book, Rainer included several quotes that were later found to be misattributed or entirely fabricated.

 

[Lisa Sims]

Since the Council of Nicea NEVER determined any list of books for New Testament canon, it follows that Constantine never ratified any such list.

Thank you, I__

You seem to have an incredible knowledge of church history for which I applaud you... unfortunately, I don't. If I have mis-represented a fact, I apologize. I was just going by this statement in Constantine's message which I may have misconstrued:

Constantine says he never when on earth accepted Christianity. Is now a Celestial Spirit
"...So I, though it has been frequently said, did not establish the canonicity of the Bible, or determine and legalize the doctrines which were declared and made binding by the conventions of the leaders of the church. Of course, I gave them my sanction and official approval, but they were not mine and should not be said to have been established by me, for if the doctrines of the Arians had been accepted and declared by a majority of these ecclesiastics as the true teachings of the Christian scriptures, I should have sanctioned and given them the State’s authority. As I said, I was not a Christian when I lived and I did not die a Christian, notwithstanding all the fantastical and miraculous things which have been written about me and my conversion to Christianity..." Constantine, 9/5/1916

Your first paragraph describes how he came to be a Christian, then your latter comment indicates he never became a Christian.

He didn't care whether it was paganism or Christianity, but he knew that Christians would choose death over paganism, so he chose Christianity.

Is this where you thought I said he became a Christian? If so, he is only saying he chose it for his state religion for the reason he stated, not for his own personal religion.

I really tried to track down your quote, using multiple search engines and AI's. I found bupkes. Apparently Constantine never said this.

Constantine gave this Message from spirit on 9/5/1916, through an inspired/developed medium, James E. Padgett, Assistant District Attorney of Washington DC, and Methodist sunday school teacher, who was well developed (somewhat reluctantly) in God's Love, coached by Jesus himself (from spirit) on praying for and receiving God's Love, to the extent that he had enough rapport with Celestial Spirits that he could take their Messages (fairly) accurately (the Law of Attraction).

Dozens of other inspired/developed mediums have taken Messages in this Series since Padgett's passing to spirit in 1923. Padgett himself has contributed messages from the Celestial Kingdom (the Kingdom of God) in this Series. He says that he arrived in spirit in the high-second spiritual heaven (of six), and through continuing prayer for the Divine Love, gradually rose through the remaining spiritual spheres and attained complete transformation of his soul, the Re-birth, and entrance to the "Kingdom," where all have complete assurance of immortality separate from God, but are One with Him.

Thank you for your comments.

Blessings,
Lisa

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Constantine gave this Message from spirit on 9/5/1916, through an inspired/developed medium, James E. Padgett, Assistant District Attorney of Washington DC, Methodist sunday school teacher, who was well developed (somewhat reluctantly) in God's Love, coached by Jesus himself (from spirit) on praying for and receiving God's Love, to the extent that he had enough rapport with Celestial Spirits that he could take their Messages (fairly) accurately (the Law of Attraction).

Lisa

Ahhhhh I see the root of our disagreement. You are treating the writings of this medium as being on par with actual historical documents we have that are written by Constantine. I do not accept that in the slightest. Now if that's your religious belief, you have every right to believe it as any of us. Just know that *I* utterly reject it.

If I were President, I would leave to historians a gazillion documents that I had either written or had signed. If someone came hundreds of years later, writing that I said something contrary to the actual documents I left, I would be very angry (assuming that my soul would be conscious of it).

Since we obviously cannot agree on what a reliable source is for Constantine, there is no common ground for us to discuss him. So, with only good feelings towards you, I think we should move on to other topics.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

What would happen when the Christ spirit returned in the future?
In logic we become united as One in Being through the Holy Spirit Person, the Spirit Will of God the Father as One in Being, together.

to me in logic, today, Jesus brings the Holy Spirit to Earth through The Christ, The Person of Jesus in the flesh with the person of The Holy Spirit in His Soul for all to "become today" immortalized and make incorruptible the Body from created mortal and corrupt from the Created Bodies of Adam and Eve.
"In the future" we will become again, "in the future" through the Power of the Holy Spirit in Our Christ, Our Flesh just like Jesus, The Christ with the Person of the Holy Spirit person in the Soul of our Being as The Christ, we are re-confirmed sanctified and will from our own Christ, become again, glorified and transfigured becoming the Image of the Father, God united with the Father and the Son as one in being. In logic, the autonomy of the fulfilled will of the creator is the being in the soul of the immortalized Body of God as the Christ in all mankind to stand self-righteous and justified to become again in union with all mankind as one in being together with The Father and the Son, Glorified and transfigured.

To me and in logic and from the Power of the Divine, "Holy" Spirit, the Person of Jesus is conceived by the Person of The Divine, Holy Spirit in being and becomes the Christ to return redemption life from the spirit through flesh for the souls of the Bodies of all to share in being, united together through the Christ in all mankind, becoming again as one in the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven.

To me In logic, and faith, We know to keep open the doors to the Faith from Abraham through the Power of the Holy Spirit Will of God for all mankind, united in being.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Trailblazer]

What would happen when the Christ spirit returned in the future?

I believe that the Christ spirit already returned so the future is here.
I believe that the Christ spirit returned in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the Spirit of Truth.
I believe that Jesus announced the Coming of Baha'u'llah in John, chapters 14, 15 and 16.

His claims were as follows:

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 246-249

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.”

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 17-23

 

[Lisa Sims]

Since we obviously cannot agree on what a reliable source is for Constantine, there is no common ground for us to discuss him. So, with only good feelings towards you, I think we should move on to other topics.

I agree, I__

And, as pertaining to records left by presidents and kings, I also hope that we can both allow for Jesus' prophecy from Luke 12:1-3 "...Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known. What you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops..."

Many blessings...
Lisa

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Peace to all,

What would happen when the Christ spirit returned in the future?

Fascinating how a thread that began as an inquiry to Jews why we reject Christianity became a thread on Christian interests

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I agree, I__

And, as pertaining to records left by presidents and kings, I also hope that we can both allow for Jesus' prophecy from Luke 12:1-3 "...Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known. What you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops..."

Many blessings...
Lisa

Perhaps you aren't aware that I'm Jewish? The gospels are part of the the Christian Bible, but not mine.

To me, the Pharisees are the heros. They took Judaism, and turned it from a thing for priests into something for every Jew. They built the synagogues where everyone could go to study Torah. They built the first Jewish day schools with the idea that every Jewish boy should be able to read the Torah for himself. They interpreted the law in a lenient way that made it easier for Jews to keep. They took ethical monotheism all over the Roman empire. When the Temple was destroyed and Jews scattered to the four corners of the world, they held us together as a People and helped us adjust to the new world we were living in. Judaism today IS Pharisaism.

Hypocrisy? It exists in every religion, and I have never met a person who wasn't a bit hypocritical about something or other. A Christian once told me that when people complained about hypocrisy in the churches, he would say, "Well come right on in! There's always room for one more!"

 

[1213]

No, the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth.

I think I just gave the scriptures that say so.

I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever,-- the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.
John 14:16-17
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
John 14:26
However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but what-ever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13

Maybe you should ask the Spirit of Truth from God.

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13

Baha'is believe that the Spirit of truth is a title for Baha'u'llah because He brought the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for showing a great difference between Baha'is beliefs and Bible.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

(Why do you think that Jesus said "whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him?"

I think Jesus said that the world cannot receive it doesn't mean that no human can't receive it. It was for his disciples.

I surmise that maybe it was because Baha'u'llah had not come into the world at the time Jesus said this.)

Bible tells Holy Spirit is something that is in many people. I don't think that fits to the idea that Baha'u'llah is the spirit, especially if he teaches contradicting ideas.

But the important point is that Paul made Jesus into someone He never was.

Sorry, I don't think that is true. But, Paul said many thing that have been twisted to make Jesus look something else than what he is.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Maybe you should ask the Spirit of Truth from God.

I think it far more likely that they simply made an honest mistake.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Fascinating how a thread that began as an inquiry to Jews why we reject Christianity became a thread on Christian interests

What is even more fascinating is that some would find this surprising.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Jews don't believe in Jesus
paarsurrey said:
And John 1:1 is not in first person from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah who was neither a Zionist nor from the stock of Judah aka a Jew, please, right?

Luke 1:30-35 KJV

And same is Luke 1:30-35, it is not in first person from (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah who was neither a Zionist nor from the stock of Judah aka a Jew, please, right?

Regards