So you have no evidence for your position. Thank you.
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Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing
- Thread starter 1137
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Me Myself
Back to my username
Facts are simply things that are true. Whether there is scientific evidence for them or not is irrelevant for their status as facts.
For example, it is a fact I am sitting at my bed right now. You may not believe it and I have no way of proving it to you, but it is a fact.
God is likewise. You just dont believe in it, but you disbelief does not make it not a fact.
Suffice it to say I wasn't talking to you.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Interestingly, given that religions contradict each other on many levels, it is safe to say most religions would be, at least partially, factually inaccurate.
Meaning that if you judge indoctrination on the grounds of whether it is a fact or not, then most of the time it is undoubtedly religious indoctrination, even if you can't determine which is which.
Which is why religion is tolerated, even accepted or encouraged, instead of forbidden.
However, that is no reason to fail to notice - or to take measure against - those dangerous excesses.
As a comparasion, most physicians aren't murderers, but we take measures to avoid medical misbehaving all the same.
I just don't understand why people feel so bothered by the simple statement that there is such a thing as religious abuse, often inflicted by the raising parents. It is as clear a fact as it could be.
Sure, there are difficult, unpleasant questions arising from that acknowledgement. But outright denial is IMO a very bad mistake that no one, particularly religious people themselves, can afford to tolerate.
Fred Phelps, for one. Alas, he is hardly alone.
You know, Christine, there is really no comparison between what you do and what some misguided people do.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Not exactly. A fact is something that can be proven. You're right that it's something true, but it also has to be verifiable to anyone, hence proof.
Technically you could prove it.
You're right, my disbelief doesn't make it not a fact. The fact that it's not a fact does. It's a belief, and a belief is different from a fact.
Me Myself
Back to my username
True to a point.
Its important to remember I was working with Magic's premises which I dont necessarily agree with.
If we accept the premise that teaching as a fact something that is not is indoctrination, then I am sure all parents have indoctrinated their kids, not just religious ones.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
But who were you talking to? I'm just curious, because I haven't seen any comments that claimed what you were arguing against.
Me Myself
Back to my username
You have said this several times without one single proof.
I on the other hand already presented you both the oxford and the merriam webster dictionary telling you that if something exists or is true, it is enough for it to be a fact.
I am waiting for the proof. Ironically, you never deliver it when cornered for it.
Prove it.
Me Myself
Back to my username
I brought it up because I ran into the phrase a few times in the past couple of days. I thought maybe it was in this thread, but maybe it was in an another one. I wasn't quoting anyone, so I wasn't expecting anyone to take it personally. And some people do believe it.
Then it's not a fact. Case closed.Tried it already, he ignores this
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I didn't realize this wasn't common knowledge. What is a fact? It's something that's objectively true, right? Well, how do we know it's true?
We don't in general. Facts are true by definition. Whether something is a fact or not is not something we are typically able to determine.
Me Myself
Back to my username
A fact is something that is true , yes. On the other hand many things are true without having been proven true.
So I cannot give you scientific evidence nor I care to. I know it's true and I plan to pass it on. You may freely believe it is indoctrination, but you cannot evidence that beyond all doubt unless you prove it is not a fact (in other words, unless you prove it is not true) that god/s exists.
Curious George
Veteran Member
Since when is logic not evidence?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Then it's not a fact.
Then I guess the word is useless and we'll have to stop using it altogether.
Is that a fact?
Me Myself
Back to my username
It only needs to be true to be a fact.
What you are saying is that before we had the means to prove the Earth was round is wasnt true because we were unable to prove it.
Thats your prerrogative. For starters your use of it is different than the one in the oxford and the merriam, so there is that.