Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[kashmir]

I'm not going to play this game with you.

You know, if you aren't going to bother to read what you're responding to, you'll save everyone a lot of bother if you just don't post.

what are you talking about, you said the bible isn't religion, so what does people in church read when developing their doctrine?
The bible itself is nothing, just like a recipe book, its nothing by itself.
Soon as it is picked up and read, it becomes something and part of the person reading it.
It becomes the persons religion,doctrine,life book, etc.

The only games being played is those who refuse to communicate here and make irrelevant points and comparisons about the bible and scripture as you did with the baptism thing, trying to compare it to forcing a child to be bisexual.
And all the others who continue to twist scripture completely out of context.
Not sure if its done on purpose or they just don't understand what the verses mean.

I really do not think you have the authority to be telling people not to post here, either :no:

You're telling me. I have no idea what point you think you're making. How did you jump from "let's let kids make their lifelong commitments themselves when they're old enough" to "let's starve children"?

Who is the one actually playing games here?
How does putting kids a healthy diet according to a parents perspective somehow become starving the children?
I know many vegans, they are not starved because they don't eat meat. :no:

Talk about totally twisting what was actually said.

This is exactly why there is zero communication within these forums, from my perspective.
It seems too much twisting of what others say, goes on.
This is just my take, I could be the one with alzheimer's and totally lost

 

[kashmir]

Here is the part that makes no sense.
We can obviously teach out kids what ever we want, we set rules and they learn everything from us, and are basically little "us"
No way around that.

But to let the kid be part of the religion a parent has, is suddenly brainwashing them.
Everything else is fine, women dress their daughters up, begin to teach them to wear make up, poke holes in their ears, turn them into little beauty queens.
Men take their boys camping, or what ever the dad likes, football, etc and even try to get the son to like his sort of job or such.
Both parents want their kids to be better then them, become doctors, scientists, who knows what, but that's ok, we can do all the thinking for the kids....

Lord forbid that we teach them about god, ohhh that's brainwashing them.

 

[Desert Snake]

The Bible is a book, not a religion.

Exactly. So why are you arguing mainly against Biblical assertations. My religion is Christianity/Yeshist, not 'the Bible'.

The Bible is a guidebook for understanding the religion, if one reads it incorrectly, that's their problem.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not asking you to defend anything but the position you gave: that religion provides ready-made "codified morality" that doesn't need judgement or revision. If this is true, I'm sure you can provide just one example of a religion whose morality is codified and that has persisted without being revised. Can you give us even one?

The teachings of my religion are generally found in the Bible, I'm not even sure what you're asking.

 

[kashmir]

Exactly. So why are you arguing mainly against Biblical assertations. My religion is Christianity/Yeshist, not 'the Bible'.

The Bible is a guidebook for understanding the religion, if one reads it incorrectly, that's their problem.

Without the bible, there is no religion.

All the various churches read the same book and develop their own perspective from the bible, so the bible is religion on that sense.

Sitting on the shelf, its just like all the other books, nothing but paper with words on them.

 

[Desert Snake]

Without the bible, there is no religion.

All the various churches read the same book and develop their own perspective from the bible, so the bible is religion on that sense.

Sitting on the shelf, its just like all the other books, nothing but paper with words on them.

And I don't think you're disagreeing with me here.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing?


It is not brainwashing; it is their duty to their children;they must do it.

Regards

 

[kashmir]

And I don't think you're disagreeing with me here.

Nope
I agree with pretty much everything you have been saying.
Notice that some that disagree begin twisting reality and what people actually said and Scripture as well, so they have something to say?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what are you talking about, you said the bible isn't religion, so what does people in church read when developing their doctrine?

I said that the Bible isn't A religion. Your original point about the Bible was completely irrelevant to what I was asking disciple for.

It would really help to avoid misunderstandings if you read posts all the way through before responding to them.

 

[kashmir]

I said that the Bible isn't A religion. Your original point about the Bible was completely irrelevant to what I was asking disciple for.

It would really help to avoid misunderstandings if you read posts all the way through before responding to them.

coming from someone who compares baptism to forcing a child to be bisexual, yet you want me to continue to try to understand your points when you refuse to understand anyone elses and basically told me to stop posting?
Ok then, good show bro

 

[1137]

Here is the part that makes no sense.
We can obviously teach out kids what ever we want, we set rules and they learn everything from us, and are basically little "us"
No way around that.

But to let the kid be part of the religion a parent has, is suddenly brainwashing them.
Everything else is fine, women dress their daughters up, begin to teach them to wear make up, poke holes in their ears, turn them into little beauty queens.
Men take their boys camping, or what ever the dad likes, football, etc and even try to get the son to like his sort of job or such.
Both parents want their kids to be better then them, become doctors, scientists, who knows what, but that's ok, we can do all the thinking for the kids....

Lord forbid that we teach them about god, ohhh that's brainwashing them.

Teaching, no. Forcing god down their throat since before they could even think and against threats of suffering and misery is.

 

[kashmir]

Teaching, no. Forcing god down their throat since before they could even think and against threats of suffering and misery is.

I agree, but why is it ok to force everything else on the kids?
Child beauty pageants...
Plus, almost all women raise their daughters in a manor that their outer beauty is the most important thing they can think about.

Don't know of anyone that was forced to go to church, end up having mental issues later in life, like nearly all girls over their outer beauty have.
That is where the real brain washing is, in my opinion.

Never seen one atheist that was forced to go to church, discuss having mental problems now, not a one.

This is being discussed like its ruining peoples lives, to take kids to church.
That is where I am having issues.
OMG, his parents make him go to church, his life is ruined.
He was baptized, its on his record, no one will hire him now, ohhh the shame of it all

kids at school pointing...
"thats johnny, he is forced to go to church, don't go around him, he has cooties"
"i even seen him pray, can you believe that? he is praying, what a loser"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Never seen one atheist that was forced to go to church, discuss having mental problems now, not a one.

Well, now you've heard about many:

Religious Trauma Syndrome

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2013/03/religious-trauma-syndrome/

 

[paarsurrey]

Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing?


It is not brainwashing; it parents' duty to their children;they must do it. The parents have a right to teach their children everything they deem useful for their children.

Why deprive parents their rights?

Regards

 

[Curious George]

You're telling me. I have no idea what point you think you're making. How did you jump from "let's let kids make their lifelong commitments themselves when they're old enough" to "let's starve children"?

Isn't vegetarianism or non vegetarianism a lifestyle choice that requires belief? Do not parents force this on children expecting that the children will embrace the lifestyle for life? Moreover does diet not have lifelong ramifications?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn't vegetarianism or non vegetarianism a lifestyle choice that requires belief? Do not parents force this on children expecting that the children will embrace the lifestyle for life? Moreover does diet not have lifelong ramifications?

If a child isn't fed vegetarian food and isn't fed non-vegetarian food, then the child won't be fed at all. A child that isn't fed will starve.

Yes, dying of starvation has lifelong ramifications.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I agree, but why is it ok to force everything else on the kids?
Child beauty pageants...

I'm pretty sure there's nobody here who thinks raising children to be in pageants is a good thing.

For instance, using your example of pageants, we can both agree that forcing a child into going into those kinds of pageants is wrong. However, let's imagine a situation where the parents do not force the child into going and, instead, the child decides they want to enter the pageants themselves. Would you support the parent's decision to enter their child into pageants in that case, since it is the child's decision - not something forced upon them by their parents?

Plus, almost all women raise their daughters in a manor that their outer beauty is the most important thing they can think about.

And that's bad too. What does that have to do with raising children in a religion?

Don't know of anyone that was forced to go to church, end up having mental issues later in life, like nearly all girls over their outer beauty have.

Such things happen all the time. People have been ostracized and abused by their families for not adopting the beliefs of their parents for hundreds of years, and I have personally met at least four or five individuals who felt unable to openly admit to their families that they do not agree with or fit within their particular religious doctrines. Do you have any idea how many homosexuals are permanently traumatized by their inability to accept their own sexual identity and see themselves only as an abomination? Such issues are so common and ingrained even in liberal societies that "gay cure" churches, courses and even clinics are profitable businesses.

Never seen one atheist that was forced to go to church, discuss having mental problems now, not a one.

I know at least one.

This is being discussed like its ruining peoples lives, to take kids to church.
That is where I am having issues.

That depends on what the church is teaching, I suppose, and how rigidly the parents enforce it. I see no issue in raising a child around the principles of a religion. The only problem I have is with parents raising that child in such a way that it denies them the ability to accept or adopt any attitude outside of their parent's beliefs. I am fairly certain that you would agree with me that a parent raising their child as, say, a strict political conservative, and not allowing them to be exposed to liberal political ideas while simultaneously enforcing a hatred of non-conservative ideologies, would not be in the child's best interests. It's an extreme example, but the problems with such a framework are the same as those in raising a child to be religious.

OMG, his parents make him go to church, his life is ruined.
He was baptized, its on his record, no one will hire him now, ohhh the shame of it all

kids at school pointing...
"thats johnny, he is forced to go to church, don't go around him, he has cooties"
"i even seen him pray, can you believe that? he is praying, what a loser"

Childishly simplifying the issue and ignoring the actual arguments in favour of strawmen is not a legitimate debating tactic.

 

[kashmir]

Well, now you've heard about many:

Religious Trauma Syndrome

Religious Trauma Syndrome

Sorry but that is written by a layman, it's full of bias and arbitrary "facts"
I will agree that other atheists will read it and develop "trauma" as well. :sarcastic
My favorite line was "Damage to normal thinking"
ROFLMFAO.....That is funny
Maybe that is why I am such a nutcase and play with my own spit?
"bleee bleee bleee" :banghead3

Do you have anything from a real doctor?
You know like with teen girls that starve themselves to be thin like supermodels?
Or other things like with the coping with being molested?

 

[Curious George]

If a child isn't fed vegetarian food and isn't fed non-vegetarian food, then the child won't be fed at all. A child that isn't fed will starve.

Yes, dying of starvation has lifelong ramifications.

Yes but shouldn't we feed children without indoctrinating them into any particular view? Shouldn't we expose children to a multitude of diets and let them choose what to eat, even if that is McDonald's twenty-four seven? We are talking about beliefs not just what they eat.

 

[Riverwolf]

Without the bible, there is no religion.

Uh... hello? We don't have a Sacred Book, but we still have a religion.

All the various churches read the same book and develop their own perspective from the bible, so the bible is religion on that sense.

It's worth pointing out that early Christianity didn't have any sort of Bible. Furthermore, there are several different Bibles that have different contents.