Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Personally, I do not believe that teaching your child your own religion is brainwashing. I also do not believe that making your child follow your religion is brainwashing. But then again, that's probably because as a Catholic I would be obligated to teach my child my religion. I don't have children at this time though.

So you've taken the position that religious indoctrination is okay because if you said it was wrong, it would reflect badly on yourself?

 

[paarsurrey]

Personally, I do not believe that teaching your child your own religion is brainwashing. I also do not believe that making your child follow your religion is brainwashing. But then again, that's probably because as a Catholic I would be obligated to teach my child my religion. I don't have children at this time though.

It is OK to bring up your children in your religion; it is a part of one's religion to be open to truth where-ever one could find the truth. This should be also taught to the children.
May One-True-God give you beautiful, healthy and intelligent children.

Regards

 

[Magic Man]

Personally, I do not believe that teaching your child your own religion is brainwashing. I also do not believe that making your child follow your religion is brainwashing. But then again, that's probably because as a Catholic I would be obligated to teach my child my religion. I don't have children at this time though.

Brainwashing isn't the best term. Indoctrination is much more accurate. I think there's a big difference between teaching your child about your religion and teaching them your religion. Teaching them your religion as the one true religion is indoctrination, even if it means what you do with your kids is then indoctrination.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is OK to bring up your children in your religion; it is a part of one's religion to be open to truth where-ever one could find the truth. This should be also taught to the children.
May One-True-God give you beautiful, healthy and intelligent children.

Regards

What does closing a child off to all religious paths but one have to do with "being open to truth wherever one could find the truth"?

 

[Curious George]

Explain to me the difference, because I don't see any relevant distinction. Use logic itself, not an analogy, if you would.

I think he is pointing out that you must have assumptions which are not necessarily logical. Once those assumptions are agreed, then you could use logic to derive the conclusions to which you are driving. Think, Plato's republic. But emu, disagreed specifically with the assumptions on which utilitarian ethics rest. Therefore just because you employ logic does not mean you are being logical.

 

[metis]

I do feel that if one's comfortable with it, bringing up a child in a religious context can be quite beneficial. As kids get older, they will eventually make their own choices. Our three kids were brought up Catholic (my wife's religion), but one of them converted to Judaism with her children, and our son is non-theistic leaning towards Buddhism. Our younger daughter has remained Catholic, and ironically we not only all get along in this area, we celebrate each other's holidays.

 

[Magic Man]

I do feel that if one's comfortable with it, bringing up a child in a religious context can be quite beneficial. As kids get older, they will eventually make their own choices. Our three kids were brought up Catholic (my wife's religion), but one of them converted to Judaism with her children, and our son is non-theistic leaning towards Buddhism. Our younger daughter has remained Catholic, and ironically we not only all get along in this area, we celebrate each other's holidays.

It's interesting that your experience has been so varied in the responses of your children. You're right that people will make their own choices as they get older. However, the problem with bringing them up in your religion is that it makes it harder for them to make those decisions in an unbiased way. Your children are the exception. Usually a child raised in a religion continues to follow it as an adult. That's why there are so many Christians in the U.S. and so many Muslims in countries like Iran. Even though those kids can make their own decisions later in life, you're weighting the choices heavily in favor of your religion. It's like asking them to pick a box, when you've filled 8 boxes with broccoli and 2 boxes with candy. Sure, they might end up with the candy, but there's a strong chance they'll end up with broccoli.

 

[metis]

It's interesting that your experience has been so varied in the responses of your children. You're right that people will make their own choices as they get older. However, the problem with bringing them up in your religion is that it makes it harder for them to make those decisions in an unbiased way. Your children are the exception. Usually a child raised in a religion continues to follow it as an adult. That's why there are so many Christians in the U.S. and so many Muslims in countries like Iran. Even though those kids can make their own decisions later in life, you're weighting the choices heavily in favor of your religion. It's like asking them to pick a box, when you've filled 8 boxes with broccoli and 2 boxes with candy. Sure, they might end up with the candy, but there's a strong chance they'll end up with broccoli.

I hear ya. We avoided this by having our kids have multiple experiences when they were growing up, plus teaching them that religions and denominations/branches are attempts to understand God(s), and they are not inerrant.

What you might find interesting is that, even though we frequently discuss religion, we never have had a single argument, knock on wood [hits head]. Our grandkids have also picked up on this and are interested in what our other grandkids believe and are experiencing. One of our granddaughters is going to Israel for the month of July, and our grandson is very active at his Catholic high school.

For us, it has worked out-- at least thus far, knock on wood [hits head again as lumps now appear].

 

[Riverwolf]

I think he is pointing out that you must have assumptions which are not necessarily logical. Once those assumptions are agreed, then you could use logic to derive the conclusions to which you are driving. Think, Plato's republic. But emu, disagreed specifically with the assumptions on which utilitarian ethics rest. Therefore just because you employ logic does not mean you are being logical.

Ah. And my inexperience and lack of full education on the thousands of years of debating experience of academics has shown. ^_^ (Though I have read the first three chapters of The Republic... and find the so-called "Ideal State" to be quite dystopian.)

I think I get it. That accurate, Emu?

 

[Riverwolf]

By the way, I do intend to include my children in our rituals and celebrations. We'll be dancing 'round the Maypole on Midsummer's Eve, and I'll be blessing the family with blots (non-alcoholic Meade used with the kids, of course ^_^).

But I won't tell them that Woden is "real", and that not believing in him will lead to bad times. (For the record, they also won't be told that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or any of those figures are "real", either. Daddy or Mommy become Santa on Midwinter's Eve.) Our rituals are more for the family and social connections, and would be perfectly okay if they convert to Christianity, Islam, or declare themselves atheists. Long as they don't try to make us do likewise, we're all good.

I will raise them with our stories, yes(that is, the legends and fairy tales of Northern Europe), but they'll be familiar with Biblical stories, Greco-Roman epics, Vedic and Puranic legends, the parables of Jesus, Arabian Nights, Islamic legends, and stories from all over the world. I'll be teaching them about our religion, as well as other religions. Because of a standard assumption that I remember many kids had, I'll try to help them understand that adults aren't always right, and will often disagree.

Forcing a religion on children, especially with the threat of hellfire, may not be brainwashing, but it's still a terrible practice. Raising children in a religion, with the understanding that the child could change or drop religions with absolutely no fear of family breakage, is fine.

 

[1137]

I'm personally acquainted with two families who selected religious schooling for their kids. One family....Pre school through 2nd grade, Mt.Pisgah Baptist. Middle years and HS 3-12 Mt. Paren Christian school in Kennesaw GA. More than likely the college years will be in Liberty Baptist or some other 4 year college which includes bible before intelligence. My question is: What kind of chance do those kids have of ever making up their own minds about anything?

I don't understand the point of raising children that way. You could easily just keep them home and mold their minds yourself.

 

[paarsurrey]

I do feel that if one's comfortable with it, bringing up a child in a religious context can be quite beneficial. As kids get older, they will eventually make their own choices.

I appreciate it. It is in line with my post #1942 above.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

It's interesting that your experience has been so varied in the responses of your children. You're right that people will make their own choices as they get older. However, the problem with bringing them up in your religion is that it makes it harder for them to make those decisions in an unbiased way. Your children are the exception. Usually a child raised in a religion continues to follow it as an adult. That's why there are so many Christians in the U.S. and so many Muslims in countries like Iran. Even though those kids can make their own decisions later in life, you're weighting the choices heavily in favor of your religion. It's like asking them to pick a box, when you've filled 8 boxes with broccoli and 2 boxes with candy. Sure, they might end up with the candy, but there's a strong chance they'll end up with broccoli.

I don't agree with you. Friend metis has done the right thing.

Regards

 

[Will Campbell]

Personally, I do not believe that teaching your child your own religion is brainwashing. I also do not believe that making your child follow your religion is brainwashing. But then again, that's probably because as a Catholic I would be obligated to teach my child my religion. I don't have children at this time though.

As best as I can remember all religions "spread the good word." Even cannibals taught their young offspring to consume human flesh as a religious ritual. A child can be taught to do or not do anything.

 

[Will Campbell]

I don't understand the point of raising children that way. You could easily just keep them home and mold their minds yourself.

In my opinion it's to keep them away from the scientific truth....that's one thing religious groups can't tolerate.....a real and thorough education.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't agree with you. Friend metis has done the right thing.

Regards

From the sounds of things, it sounds like metis also wasn't doing the thing everyone has been talking about here: making his children follow his religion.

 

[Nakosis]

It is ironic because you would like to infringe upon the parents right to parent. I am okay with parents making lifelong decisions that effect children. Haven't we already discussed this in one or more circumcision threads. But raising your child in religion is not exactly the same as arranging a marriage. But, I understand that many cultures choose to arrange marriage and I am not so culture centric as to have the audacity to call them wrong.

:clap

Always someone around to tell you how you're going about life wrong.

 

[Riverwolf]

In my opinion it's to keep them away from the scientific truth....that's one thing religious groups can't tolerate.....a real and thorough education.

Some religious groups can't tolerate what they mistakenly think of of as brainwashing. Most religious groups and people are as in favor of proper education (which is NOT the long outdated way the US currently does it) as everyone else.

 

[Mister Emu]

Ah. And my inexperience and lack of full education on the thousands of years of debating experience of academics has shown. ^_^ (Though I have read the first three chapters of The Republic... and find the so-called "Ideal State" to be quite dystopian.)

I think I get it. That accurate, Emu?

Correct.

 

[Will Campbell]

Some religious groups can't tolerate what they mistakenly think of of as brainwashing. Most religious groups and people are as in favor of proper education (which is NOT the long outdated way the US currently does it) as everyone else.

Well...my maternal grandmother and the elementary school I attended did a good job on me. I was about 60 years old when I finally put it behind me. I've posted it before but when I was in the third and fourth grades at a school in west TN the teachers began each day with the lord's prayer and pledge of allegiance and on Mondays they assigned each member of the class a bible verse to memorize and recite back to the class on Thursdays or Fridays. They should try that nonsense now and see how far they get.

Something is changing:

Survey: One in five Americans has no religion – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

Survey: One in five Americans has no religion

Washington – The fastest growing "religious" group in America is made up of people with no religion at all, according to a Pew survey showing that one in five Americans is not affiliated with any religion.

The number of these Americans has grown by 25% just in the past five years, according to a survey released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

The survey found that the ranks of the unaffiliated are growing even faster among younger Americans.

Thirty-three million Americans now have no religious affiliation, with 13 million in that group identifying as either atheist or agnostic, according to the new survey.

Pew found that those who are religiously unaffiliated are strikingly less religious than the public at large. They attend church infrequently, if at all, are largely not seeking out religion and say that the lack of it in their lives is of little importance.