Why Praise God When He's The One Who Brought Coronavirus To Us?

[ElishaElijah]

Prove it, otherwise it is just a belief.

Just like He said? Who is He?

When I accepted Jesus Christ gift of eternal life I was filled with the Holy Spirit just like Jesus said. This is reality for everyone who is born again.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Does he talk to you?

Yes by the Holy Spirit who lives in me.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Yes by the Holy Spirit who lives in me.

Do you answer audibly or by thoughts?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Do you answer audibly or by thoughts?

Both ways and He answers a lot of different ways but not audibly, usually through His Word, a vision, dream, answered prayer, been healed and delivered. So many things He has done and provided for our family
of 14 Children, the blessing of God has literally overtaken us.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Both ways and He answers a lot of different ways but not audibly, usually through His Word, a vision, dream, answered prayer, been healed and delivered. So many things He has done and provided for our family
of 14 Children, the blessing of God has literally overtaken us.

I am truly astonished. I'm sincere.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I am truly astonished. I'm sincere.

I’m astonished too because what God has done is something I never thought possible. When I was at my lowest I cried to God for help and He showed up, led me to people who shared the Gospel with me and God
has been faithful to His promises in the Bible. It’s common and if you go to baptisms and listen to the stories, they are amazing of what God has done in people’s lives.

 

[blü 2]

Free will is not torn apart because we choose to do what God knows we will do.

No, we can't "choose" ─ that's a total illusion. Otherwise we could do things God didn't foresee and take the old rascal by surprise. But [he]'s ruled that out.

Plenty of things happen that God did not intend to happen because people make choices and cause things to happen.

No, for the last 14 bn years there's only been one thing they're going to be able to do, not two, not more. "Choosing" is completely an illusion.

Or else God is not omni, of course.

 

[blü 2]

If we are like wind up dolls then you might have a point. But we are not like wind up dolls and God knowing what we will do does not mean that God is forcing us to do it.

Forcing may not be the right word. Is a clockwork toy train forced to run in a circle? Or is the idea of force for such a thing merely metaphor?

We cannot do any different to what God knows we will do but God knowing what we will do does not force us to do it.

Yes it does. There's no alternative, no choice at any point. You CAN'T take God by surprise.

Or else [he]'s not omnipotent, omniscient, perfect and so on,

God knows what we will freely choose to do.

That's exactly wrong. Before there can be a free choice there must be more than one possible outcomes. But there's only ever one possible outcome ─ the one that God perfectly foresaw before [he] made the universe. That there are alternatives is wholly an illusion, that theological free will is compatible with an omni god is incoherent.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is Jesus speaking and He did say that He would come again.

Yes it is about Jesus coming again, in spirit.

It sounds like Jesus left all Christians alone and without a comforter for over 1800 years. That means He lied to them.

No, it means that it was not time for God to send another Comforter until the 1800s when Baha'u'llah appeared.
Since Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit was still in the world and it had not waned sufficiently until the 1800s so it was not time for God to send another Comforter until the 1800s.

Jesus was the Comforter. Jesus said the Father would give us another Comforter. Then Jesus said he would come to us, but that means His Spirit would come to us.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Baha’u’llah was another Comforter since He brought the same Holy Spirit to humanity, which is why He is called the Comforter.

Jesus made it perfectly clear that the world would see Him no more so that means He is not going to return in the same body.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.
This passage is about Jesus return.

Jesus was saying that His Spirit would come to you in the Person of the Comforter, who was Baha'u'llah.

John 14 KJV

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Baha'u'llah was the prince of this world that Jesus referred to in John 14:30 (KJV).

“Thou didst ask as to chapter 14, verse 30 of the Gospel of John, where the Lord Christ saith, ‘Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the Prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.’ The Prince of this world is the Blessed Beauty; and ‘hath nothing in Me’ signifieth: after Me all will draw grace from Me, but He is independent of Me, and will draw no grace from Me. That is, He is rich beyond any grace of Mine.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 170

The comforter is about the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised and Jesus and the Father are in the Holy Spirit so they come to a believer when the believer receives the Holy Spirit. In other words Jesus comes in spirit to us when we receive the Holy Spirit

Jesus was a Comforter because he brought the Holy Spirit from the Father.
Baha'u'llah was another Comforter because He brought the Holy Spirit from the Father,

and the same Jesus returns just as the disciples saw Him ascend (Acts 1:11) when He returns to judge and rule etc.

Not the same body, only the same spirit.
Baha'u'llah is the one who came to rule this world.

John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. (NKJV)

Jesus never planned to rule this world:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

These verses say that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return from heaven, from the heaven of the Will of God.

The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

When I accepted Jesus Christ gift of eternal life I was filled with the Holy Spirit just like Jesus said. This is reality for everyone who is born again.

When I accepted Baha'u'llah's gift of everlasting life I was filled with the Holy Spirit just like Baha'u'llah said.
This is reality for everyone who is born again in this new age.

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

“No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

 

[Trailblazer]

No, we can't "choose" ─ that's a total illusion. Otherwise we could do things God didn't foresee and take the old rascal by surprise. But [he]'s ruled that out.

We cannot do anything that God did not foresee but we can choose to do what God did foresee.
And that is what happens -- we choose to do what God always knew we would choose.
God foresaw everything we will choose to do do so God is never caught by surprise.

 

[blü 2]

We cannot do anything that God did not foresee but we can choose to do what God did foresee.

No ─ instead we can't choose not to do what God foresaw. Only the illusion of choice is involved ─ the outcome was fixed long long before.

 

[Trailblazer]

No ─ instead we can't choose not to do what God foresaw. Only the illusion of choice is involved ─ the outcome was fixed long long before.

That's right -- we can't choose not to do what God foresaw.
That means the same thing as what I have been saying -- we have to do what God foresaw.

The fact that we have to choose what God knows we will choose does not mean we do not have free will.
The outcome was known long long before we chose it, but it was not an outcome until we chose it.

We choose it though because God does not choose it for us.
God knows that we will choose it but God's knowing is not what causes us to choose it. Our volition is.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't get it. I read a lot of COVID long haulers stories of ongoing suffering and misery on several forums (people whose symptoms mild and severe linger months possibly years after finally testing negative). Many to most ask for prayers to get over it and a few who praise God when they do--only to fall ill against weeks or months later in many cases.

What I don't get is the Bible says this:

I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Instead of praising God we should be holding Him responsible for all the misery and death Coronavirus is doing to us. He tells us in no uncertain words He's the one who created this monstrous evil we have labeled Coronavirus.

Now before you throw "Bad translation" at me you should know that this is the King James, widely regarded as the most perfect translation ever done. Many Christians regard it as the authoritative word of God straight from God's mouth.

So God brings something as evil as Coronavirus on us and people are praising Him for it. Sort of like when someone kicks you, you say, "I like that. Do it again."

I just don't get the logic--or illogic of it, that's a better word.

Maybe it isn't Gods fault, when humans begin to do evil actions toward self or others, that is going against the law of the universe, and it create a reaction toward the one who did something wrong (called sin or karma) you may ask, yes but the person who died was so lovely and good. It may have seen like that to us as humans, but Gods standard for good or bad is different than how humans think.

According to the bible humans have done sinfull action words and thoughts since the time of Adam and Eve.

So maybe not God is the bad one afterall

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I’m astonished too because what God has done is something I never thought possible. When I was at my lowest I cried to God for help and He showed up, led me to people who shared the Gospel with me and God
has been faithful to His promises in the Bible. It’s common and if you go to baptisms and listen to the stories, they are amazing of what God has done in people’s lives.

It takes courage and a strong faith to pray to God in the midst of suffering. I think too often people think back on an experience like you described with the misconception that it was all about personal fragility and dependence, so they overlook their part in the transformation. You have proven to yourself that you know where to focus, that you know how to pray, in order to navigate crisis.

 

[blü 2]

That's right -- we can't choose not to do what God foresaw.
That means the same thing as what I have been saying -- we have to do what God foresaw.

The fact that we have to choose what God knows we will choose does not mean we do not have free will.

That's exactly what it means ─ no choice is in fact present, only one outcome is possible.

 

[blü 2]

According to the bible humans have done sinfull action words and thoughts since the time of Adam and Eve.

Well, yes and no.

If you read the Garden story in Genesis, it never mentions sin, original sin, the fall of man, death entering the world, spiritual death, the need for a redeemer, none of that. Which makes sense since at the time Eve and then Adam ate the fruit, each of them had been denied knowledge of good and evil and therefore were incapable of forming an intention for sin.

The whole 'fall' idea (if I recall correctly) is first mentioned incidentally in the Jewish quarter of Alexandria late in the 2nd century BCE, and then, for the only time in the bible, mentioned incidentally by Paul; and then, alas, Augustine of Hippo made it popular from around 400 CE.

 

[Brian2]

Well, that's one way of looking at it, I suppose. Yet I still think the gospels paint an uneven portrait of Jesus. Bible scholars outside mainstream Christianity are pretty unanimous that there are different Jesuses presented in each gospel.

Bible scholars outside of Christianity no doubt think that the gospels were written after 70AD and by people who did not know Jesus. They could be reading things into the gospels so that they can place the time and date of the writings that way.
I think that there are probably different emphases in the different gospels but they are about the same person.

 

[Brian2]

Forcing may not be the right word. Is a clockwork toy train forced to run in a circle? Or is the idea of force for such a thing merely metaphor?

Force might be too strong a word, but if we are not acting according to our will because of God's foreknowledge then any other word must take in the idea of force.

Yes it does. There's no alternative, no choice at any point. You CAN'T take God by surprise.
Or else [he]'s not omnipotent, omniscient, perfect and so on,

You cannot take God by surprise and you cannot do other than what God knows you will do. If it is not God forcing us then it is just God knowing the future.

That's exactly wrong. Before there can be a free choice there must be more than one possible outcomes. But there's only ever one possible outcome ─ the one that God perfectly foresaw before [he] made the universe. That there are alternatives is wholly an illusion, that theological free will is compatible with an omni god is incoherent.

The thing is that we do not know what the future will be and so that leaves the choices in our hand. Just because God knows what they will be does not alter our ability to choose.
The truth of the matter is that even if God did not know what we would choose and did not know the future, there still would only be one outcome and one choice that would happen. In that way the future is set but we still choose what it will be.
God knows the future and we cannot deviate from it just as we cannot deviate from what will be.
Certainly God knowing the future has enabled Him to see that the suffering of the present is nothing compared to the joy of the future and that the present is worth it in the long run.
As I say, we do not know, so we have the choice to choose.
Semantics is not a good argument.
k sera sera - Google Search

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Bible scholars outside of Christianity no doubt think that the gospels were written after 70AD and by people who did not know Jesus. They could be reading things into the gospels so that they can place the time and date of the writings that way.
I think that there are probably different emphases in the different gospels but they are about the same person.

Yes, but we have nothing definitive to say they were written any earlier. It's tradition that Mark wrote around 70 CE simply because the prophecy of Jerusalem's destruction in Mark had to come after the destruction. Secular scholars will never acknowledge that Mark had foreknowledge of what was coming. On the other hand the earliest fragment of any gospel is dated to somewhere between 125 at the earliest and 200 CE at the latest. the evidence slants in a much later dating for John than 90 CE.