Why so many people revert to Islam ?!

[Autodidact]

I seriously doubt that's the only reason.

Yes, it's true. Demographically, Islam is growing not via conversion, but via reproduction.

 

[Vendetta]

Auto is partially right. The Muslim demographic owes it's big boost due to birth rate but there are large numbers of people who do sincerely believe in islam

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, it's true. Demographically, Islam is growing not via conversion, but via reproduction.

I meant the death threat part.

But are you trying to tell me that there are so few conversions to Islam that they don't even show up? I find that SERIOUSLY hard to believe.

 

[Marble]

How many people leave Islam?
I don't think there is a statistic about this (leaving Islam is considered a crime), but I think many Muslims just follow their religion out of habbit, because everyone in their family does, or out of fear from isolation or persecution.

 

[noh950]

I hope a Muslim will correct me if I'm mistaken - but as I understand it from a Muslim pov everyone is born Muslim so one does not/cannot convert - one reverts.

Yes I think it's correct !!

 

[noh950]

Muslim American reports in the Arab press indicate that Muslim proselytizing efforts have been unusually successful since the September 11 attacks. 'Alaa Bayumi, Director of Arab Affairs at the Council for American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), wrote in the London daily Al-Hayat that "non-Muslim Americans are now interested in getting to know Islam. There are a number of signs...: Libraries have run out of books on Islam and the Middle East... English translations of the Koran head the American best-seller list... The Americans are showing increasing willingness to convert to Islam since September 11... Thousands of non-Muslim Americans have responded to invitations to visit mosques, resembling the waves of the sea [crashing on the shore] one after another... All this is happening in a political atmosphere that, at least verbally, encourages non-Muslim Americans' openness towards Muslims in America and in the Islamic world, as the American president has said many times in his speeches..."
Read more: http://www.sultan.org/articles/convert.html

 

[YmirGF]

All over the the World millions of people convert to Islam.Why ?

Many people find pat answers comforting.

 

[Autodidact]

I meant the death threat part.

But are you trying to tell me that there are so few conversions to Islam that they don't even show up? I find that SERIOUSLY hard to believe.

In Islam, apostasy is punishable by death.

 

[England my lionheart]

Muslim American reports in the Arab press indicate that Muslim proselytizing efforts have been unusually successful since the September 11 attacks. 'Alaa Bayumi, Director of Arab Affairs at the Council for American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), wrote in the London daily Al-Hayat that "non-Muslim Americans are now interested in getting to know Islam. There are a number of signs...: Libraries have run out of books on Islam and the Middle East... English translations of the Koran head the American best-seller list... The Americans are showing increasing willingness to convert to Islam since September 11... Thousands of non-Muslim Americans have responded to invitations to visit mosques, resembling the waves of the sea [crashing on the shore] one after another... All this is happening in a political atmosphere that, at least verbally, encourages non-Muslim Americans' openness towards Muslims in America and in the Islamic world, as the American president has said many times in his speeches..."
Read more: Converting to Islam in the U.S. Following 9/11 , 34000 embraced Islam !, why they converted to Islam

I just checked the top best sellers list in America and its not in the top 60,perhaps you have been misinformed,it may be an idea to check the sources for the rest too.

 

[Riverwolf]

In Islam, apostasy is punishable by death.

But your statement would only be accurate if every single Muslim family in the world actually followed that, which I doubt. After all, your statement was an absolute.

 

[Bismillah]

In Islam, apostasy is punishable by death.

I am quite glad we have someone as knowledgeable as auto making these declarations, after all her sound credibility should be enough to disregard any requirement for any actual facts, in fact it is strong enough to invalidate the Qiyas of the four existing schools of Islamic thought. I am sure she has poured in tremendous effort and looked at the text rather than intermediate "websites" that serve her own aims

According to some scholars, if a Muslim consciously and without coercion declares their rejection of Islam and does not change their mind after the time allocated by a judge for research, then the penalty for male apostates is death, and for women life imprisonment. However, this view has been rejected by modern Muslim scholars (e.g. Hasan al-Turabi), who argue that the hadith in question should be taken to apply only to political betrayal of the Muslim community, rather than to apostasy in general.[26] These scholars regard apostasy as a serious crime, but argue for the freedom to convert to and from Islam without legal penalty, and consider the aforementioned Hadith quote as insufficient justification for capital punishment. Today apostasy is illegal in most Muslim countries, and subject in some to the death penalty. Executions for apostasy are rare, but allowed in many Muslim countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. Apostasy is legal in secular Muslim countries such as Turkey.[27]

Serious question, why are you trolling?

 

[Autodidact]

But your statement would only be accurate if every single Muslim family in the world actually followed that, which I doubt. After all, your statement was an absolute.

Oh, I'm sure there are Muslims whose human decency overcomes their religious training. To the extent it does, they are not Islamic.

And certainly, fear of being murdered prevents most Muslims from even considering questioning their faith. Why go down a road that can only end in being killed?

It's sickening, isn't it?

 

[Autodidact]

According to some scholars, if a Muslim consciously and without coercion declares their rejection of Islam and does not change their mind after the time allocated by a judge for research, then the penalty for male apostates is death, and for women life imprisonment. However, this view has been rejected by modern Muslim scholars (e.g. Hasan al-Turabi), who argue that the hadith in question should be taken to apply only to political betrayal of the Muslim community, rather than to apostasy in general.[26] These scholars regard apostasy as a serious crime, but argue for the freedom to convert to and from Islam without legal penalty, and consider the aforementioned Hadith quote as insufficient justification for capital punishment. Today apostasy is illegal in most Muslim countries, and subject in some to the death penalty. Executions for apostasy are rare, but allowed in many Muslim countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. Apostasy is legal in secular Muslim countries such as Turkey.[27]

This is Bismillah's idea of repudiating an argument.

Well, since some modern scholars reject it, and only a few countries actually practice it, then it's not a problem. Right.

“But if the person who reverts who was a Muslim then converts to and becomes a non-Muslim and propagates his faith and speaks against Islam, and if it’s Islamic rule, then the person should be put to death."

Dr. Zakir Naik

the main traditions of scholarship and jurisprudence in Islam—both the Shia school and the four main Sunni ones—draw on Hadiths (words and deeds ascribed with varying credibility to Muhammad) to argue in support of death for apostates. And in recent years sentiment in the Muslim world has been hardening. In every big “apostasy” case, the authorities have faced pressure from sections of public opinion, and from Islamist factions, to take the toughest possible stance.

the Economist.

Apostasy - "According to Muslim Law, a male apostate, or murtadd, is liable to be put to death if he continue obstinate in his error; a female apostate is not subject to capital punishment, but she may be kept in confinement until she recant

Syed Mumtaz Ali

“The majority of Muslims would favor changing current laws in their countries to “allow stoning as punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft, and death for those who convert from Islam as their religion”.

Pew Poll.

Currently, the International Islamic Fiqh Academy, an organ of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, is pondering this question, and has yet to issue its ruling on the question. They are torn between mainstream tradition and modern human rights advocates.

And since Bismillah accepts the hadith, here's one from Bukhair for him:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas [like-for-like punishment] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#cite_note-apost-26

 

[Bismillah]

This is Bismillah's idea of repudiating an argument.

Well, since some modern scholars reject it, and only a few countries actually practice it, then it's not a problem. Right.

Since you are dealing in absolutes absolutely, you stated an untenable position I exposed it. Your subsequent painting of views that run counter to your aims as less Islamic, disregarding the fact that they are based on Islamic reasoning, is laughable and pathetic.

So serious question, why are you trolling.

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas [like-for-like punishment] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

In regards to the Hadith. If one comes upon a Hadith that they feel goes against the Qur'an there are three choices.

1. Accept the saying ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), in its absolute connotation, and ignore the statement of the Qur'an;
2. Accept the statement of the Qur'an and reject the narrative ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) as falsely ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh)[3].
3. Try to interpret and explain the narrative ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), in the light of the directives of the Qur'an, in such a way that the said narrative does not alter any of the directives of the Qur'an. This would imply that in such cases where a narrative cannot be explained or interpreted in coherence with the Qur'an, the narrative would not be accepted as one correctly ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh).

Discussion on the Punishment for Apostasy -Islamic Beliefs - Understanding Islam

I go by the third.

In regards to the people in question, perhaps you would do good to look at those who are being referred in the sayings. Here is a good argument, tell me what you find wrong with it.

The Punishment for Apostasy -Penal Law - Understanding Islam

Here is a very influential scholar whose translation I have read and liked and why the two premises cannot be accepted by basic Islamic definition.

• This idea is against the freedom of conscience. How can it be right to offer an apostate the gallows when he has decided to leave Islam?
• A faith which people maintain because of the fear of death cannot be genuine faith. This faith will be manifestly hypocritically chosen to deceive in order to save one's life. (Religious hypocrisy is the ultimate sin in Islam)
• If all religions approve of execution for apostasy, it will be difficult not only for Muslims to embrace another religion but also for non-Muslims to embrace Islam.
• It is contradictory to say on one hand "There is no compulsion in religion (Qur'an [Qur'an 2:256])" and "Whosoever will, let him believe and whosoever will, let him disbelieve ([Qur'an 18:29])", and on the other to threaten to punish by death who renounces Islam and moves to reject Islam.

Regardless I wonder if you remember what I said prior? The Qur'an is the primary source for fiqh not the only one.

 

[LuisDantas]

Auto, I don't think you are understanding quite what the point of Riverwolf and Bismillah is.

It doesn't fall upon us non-Muslims to say what is Islamic and what is not.

Maybe some sort of interpretation of the Quran says that apostasy is punishable by death. Maybe such interpretation is in some sense the most proper or literal.

It doesn't really matter, if at the end of the day Muslims essentially choose all to exercise common sense and basic consideration over such interpretations. We shouldn't complain when Muslims decide to be reasonable.

 

[Bismillah]

We shouldn't complain when Muslims decide to be reasonable.

Nor should we claim that rejection based wholly on Islamic premises and exegesis is a bona fide "turning away from Islam" and the "human side" of Muslims rejecting their faith. That is a plain lie and a disgusting one at that.

 

[Autodidact]

Auto, I don't think you are understanding quite what the point of Riverwolf and Bismillah is.

It doesn't fall upon us non-Muslims to say what is Islamic and what is not.

Maybe some sort of interpretation of the Quran says that apostasy is punishable by death. Maybe such interpretation is in some sense the most proper or literal.

It doesn't really matter, if at the end of the day Muslims essentially choose all to exercise common sense and basic consideration over such interpretations. We shouldn't complain when Muslims decide to be reasonable.

Other than the millions of Muslims, the several countries, and many Muslim scholars who say the opposite, that is.

 

[Autodidact]

Let me ask you Bismillah. If your child grew up and left Islam, how would you respond?

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh, I'm sure there are Muslims whose human decency overcomes their religious training. To the extent it does, they are not Islamic.

And certainly, fear of being murdered prevents most Muslims from even considering questioning their faith. Why go down a road that can only end in being killed?

It's sickening, isn't it?

Only the sectarian attitude that the Qur'an expressly teaches against. Islam, according to the Qur'an, is NOTHING MORE that submission to God. Therefore, any attempt to turn that into a club goes against the Qur'an.

IOW, the perversion, however prevalent it may be, is not necessarily the original intent or purpose.

 

[Riverwolf]

Other than the millions of Muslims, the several countries, and many Muslim scholars who say the opposite, that is.

But unless it's ALL of them, your statement still becomes false.

Numbers mean nothing in this case. Just because something is believed by most doesn't make it correct. Argumentum ad numerum.