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why some of arabs hate USA?

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Most of Arabs like American people and hate American government... that is the point.

We look to America as the land of science and freedom but about the politics and how America deal with the world, the matter is different. Why America sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers to Iraq? Why America support Israel blindly?.. I mean, we like America in some points and hate America in others

I agree except for the part about Israel. Im sure Israel has done something to earn America's support. America just doesn't simply pick and choose who they support without a reason.

You're right, American and Australian soldiers shouldn't be there. They shouldn't be shot at by ingrates trying to interupt the stabilization of the country. Also, too many innocents are dying along the way. We shouldn't be there.
 

moegypt

Active Member
I agree except for the part about Israel. Im sure Israel has done something to earn America's support. America just doesn't simply pick and choose who they support without a reason.

You're right, American and Australian soldiers shouldn't be there. They shouldn't be shot at by ingrates trying to interupt the stabilization of the country. Also, too many innocents are dying along the way. We shouldn't be there.

Sure there are some reasons but I am talking about justice.

It is really good to see you refusing the American and Austrailian in Iraq..I hope they will leave the country soon.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Sure there are some reasons but I am talking about justice.

I'm sorry, i'm not exactly sure i know what you mean by this. Is this another thing about the existance of Israel?

It is really good to see you refusing the American and Austrailian in Iraq..I hope they will leave the country soon.

Most of Australia was against sending our soldiers to die for a cause beyond the interests of our nation. Afghanistan does not need Australia's support because if it did, then civilians wouldn't be shooting at our soldiers because they support Americans.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
I'll tell you exactly why Canada, the US, Britain, the Netherlands, and Australia are failing in fighting the Islamic factions in Afghanistan. Valleyism.

Think of this. You live with your tribe in a mountain valley. You have your own way of life, your own beliefs and practices and customs (however barbaric). Invading armies (We defenders of democracy and freedom) then come into your valley and try to change your way of life. What do you think the response will be? Pick up a gun and shoot.

Military defeat of the militant Islamic factions SEEMS like a logical step in Afghanistan because it has worked in the past in very different places. We defenders of democracy and freedom entered Nazi Germany and defeated it and liberated oppressed peoples. This is a much different situation and a much more complex one in Afghanistan.

The difference here is that in Nazi Germany, we liberated people who embraced the same values we do and supported our cause. In Afghanistan, we're largely seen as an enemy who is propping up illegitimate puppet governments.

In Afghanistan, it's basically a culture war between the urban, secular Muslims in the major cities, and the rural, highly fundamentalist religious Muslims in the tribal areas. We have the urban guys on our side for the most part. But by entering the rural areas, we open ourselves up to attack and are seen as oppressors and invaders. If we stay out of the rural areas, if we stay out of these peoples' mountain valleys, valleyism no longer applies and they are forced to take the offensive and cannot be legitimately seen as defenders of their valley if they're attacking people outside of their valley.

Afghanistan's army needs to be trained, no doubt, in order to combat the insurgents themselves. Instead of fighting the Islamic factions in the rural areas (to no avail), we should be protecting the urban centres and building lots of infrastructure there if we are to be more successful.

All we're doing is supporting one side of Afghanistan's civil war. And it's more complicated than I presented here. Not only is it just urban vs. rural, you have different ethnicities combating each other too, like the Tajik and Uzbek minorities. The Hazara are getting slaughtered. Pashtuns are fighting Pashtuns.

And who do we support to lead Afghanistan? Pretty much every "politician" in Afghanistan is either highly corrupt or a war criminal. If we support anyone to lead Afghanistan, we support essentially a war criminal or someone highly corrupt (And this would be a repeat of the American installation of Saddam Hussein in Iraq to combat Iran and Iranian-supported Kurds...I don't need to re-iterate what a mistake that was).

Instead, I would support the UN effectively running the government until it is stabilized. Or perhaps a bloc of Islamic nations so that it seems more trustworthy to the people of Afghanistan, though I'm not exactly certain on how that'd be received there.

...What we're currently doing in Afghanistan isn't working. And lots of people are dying because of it. We need to change tactics quickly. We won't defeat the militant Islamic factions in Afghanistan without the use of genocide. When we kill one militant, we make five more willing to avenge the death of the one we killed. We need a smarter policy in Afghanistan.

I don't think it's just the Americans in Afghanistan who are hated by the people at large. I think it is the entirety of the international forces there.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
I don't think it's just the Americans in Afghanistan who are hated by the people at large. I think it is the entirety of the international forces there.

Then we should leave and let them do what they will. They'll soon realise that international forces gave their kids a chance. As soon as we all leave mortality rates go up, health care, education and quality of life goes down. Our soldiers shouldn't die to uphold some distant dream of democracy among tribal villages.

If we're so unwanted in these countries why do we stay? Why don't muslim countries like Jordan, the Saudi's and Egypt help? Why does the west have to go to countries that hate our guts? Its sickens me that civilians kill our soldiers and yet we stay.

Islamaphobia is terrible but can the west be blamed for their distrust when fundamentalists are comming to our countries preaching hate? A friend of mine, Raziqi is a muslim from Indonesia and hates talking about it because extremists wont **** off. Its a shame, he's as Aussie as the rest of us but no one should be afraid of talking about their religion.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Then we should leave and let them do what they will. They'll soon realise that international forces gave their kids a chance. As soon as we all leave mortality rates go up, health care, education and quality of life goes down. Our soldiers shouldn't die to uphold some distant dream of democracy among tribal villages.

If we're so unwanted in these countries why do we stay? Why don't muslim countries like Jordan, the Saudi's and Egypt help? Why does the west have to go to countries that hate our guts? Its sickens me that civilians kill our soldiers and yet we stay.

Islamaphobia is terrible but can the west be blamed for their distrust when fundamentalists are comming to our countries preaching hate? A friend of mine, Raziqi is a muslim from Indonesia and hates talking about it because extremists wont **** off. Its a shame, he's as Aussie as the rest of us but no one should be afraid of talking about their religion.

There are people in Afghanistan who appreciate us being there. Like I said, these are the urban, secular Muslims there. If we leave Afghanistan, they are at the mercy of the extremist religious thugs. I support Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's stance on Afghanistan. Train the Afghan Army so they can deal with the extremists themselves, build some infrastructure while we're there, and then gtfo.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
There are people in Afghanistan who appreciate us being there. Like I said, these are the urban, secular Muslims there. If we leave Afghanistan, they are at the mercy of the extremist religious thugs. I support Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's stance on Afghanistan. Train the Afghan Army so they can deal with the extremists themselves, build some infrastructure while we're there, and then gtfo.

Its sad that in these remote areas where our troops are building such infrastructure they get shot at for being white. Words do not express how disappointing it makes me to hear of such things.

What is worse is muslims within our country, however small percentage they are, praising the taliban for killing our troops.

People who live in our countries and want the soldiers representing the country they live in to die should be castrated and sent home. I've seen it, sadly, on these forums.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Its sad that in these remote areas where our troops are building such infrastructure they get shot at for being white. Words do not express how disappointing it makes me to hear of such things.

What is worse is muslims within our country, however small percentage they are, praising the taliban for killing our troops.

People who live in our countries and want the soldiers representing the country they live in to die should be castrated and sent home. I've seen it, sadly, on these forums.

As deplorable as having an opinion that the soldiers of ones adopted country should die, I disagree with your course of action. Countries like yours and mine have free speech and free thought. They can think and say whatever they like. Just as you can do the same.

It sets a horrible precedent if we deport people based on their opinions.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
As deplorable as having an opinion that the soldiers of ones adopted country should die, I disagree with your course of action. Countries like yours and mine have free speech and free thought. They can think and say whatever they like. Just as you can do the same.

It sets a horrible precedent if we deport people based on their opinions.

They do not deserve the quality of life we provide if they wish such things upon men and women fighting for their freedom.

Our somewhat of an open door policy is a joke. As much as we hate our soldiers being shot at they deserve our support. They don't want or need to search the internet to read newspapers to see some ****** idiot claiming that Australian/Canadian troops should die for being on Muslim soil. Such people should not be allowed to come to our respective countries.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
They do not deserve the quality of life we provide if they wish such things upon men and women fighting for their freedom.

Our somewhat of an open door policy is a joke. As much as we hate our soldiers being shot at they deserve our support. They don't want or need to search the internet to read newspapers to see some ****** idiot claiming that Australian/Canadian troops should die for being on Muslim soil. Such people should not be allowed to come to our respective countries.

This reminds me of the sh*tstorm of when British MP George Galloway wanted to visit Canada and was denied entry for these very opinions you describe.

At the time I agreed with our immigration minister's stance (pretty much your current stance). But I quickly realized that while it seems counter-intuitive to allow dissent against people who ARE fighting for their freedoms...there are situations where if we don't allow it, things can get sticky.

Lately Canada has been embroiled in allegations by diplomats saying that Canada knew that prisoners handed over to Afghan officials were being tortured, even though some weren't actually combatants.

We need people pointing out what our military is doing wrong (if it is doing wrong) so we can prevent such abuses. Granted, these dissenters (apparently more of a problem in Australia than here) have a different goal in mind. I concede that. But in the off-chance they point out a war crime here or there, it helps us identify those responsible.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
This reminds me of the sh*tstorm of when British MP George Galloway wanted to visit Canada and was denied entry for these very opinions you describe.

At the time I agreed with our immigration minister's stance (pretty much your current stance). But I quickly realized that while it seems counter-intuitive to allow dissent against people who ARE fighting for their freedoms...there are situations where if we don't allow it, things can get sticky.

Lately Canada has been embroiled in allegations by diplomats saying that Canada knew that prisoners handed over to Afghan officials were being tortured, even though some weren't actually combatants.

We need people pointing out what our military is doing wrong (if it is doing wrong) so we can prevent such abuses. Granted, these dissenters (apparently more of a problem in Australia than here) have a different goal in mind. I concede that. But in the off-chance they point out a war crime here or there, it helps us identify those responsible.

Us ****ing Australians, shooting at those innocent Taliban fighters who do not want schools built for their children or clean water :rolleyes:

I havn't seen any reports about our soldiers doing anything sinister. They're the subject of voiced hatred simply because they're on muslim soil. That and we suport America so us infidels should die. People like this should be shot at the border or sent home. Maybe its an Oceanic thing but we've always been proud of our soldiers and the whole ANZAC tradition, so anyone pathetic enough to attack or soldiers for the job theyre doing which is defending and rebuilding should not be granted asylum or citizenship here.

Propoganda has no place in a society which is proud of the awful situation our soldiers are managing.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Us ****ing Australians, shooting at those innocent Taliban fighters who do not want schools built for their children or clean water :rolleyes:

I havn't seen any reports about our soldiers doing anything sinister. They're the subject of voiced hatred simply because they're on muslim soil. That and we suport America so us infidels should die. People like this should be shot at the border or sent home. Maybe its an Oceanic thing but we've always been proud of our soldiers and the whole ANZAC tradition, so anyone pathetic enough to attack or soldiers for the job theyre doing which is defending and rebuilding should not be granted asylum or citizenship here.

Propoganda has no place in a society which is proud of the awful situation our soldiers are managing.

I dunno. Part of me really wants to agree with you. These people disgust me just as much as you. But on the other hand, it's a free speech issue.

And it's not that much of an issue here, anyway. Just about every second car I see in my neck of the woods has a "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" bumper sticker on it. Our city has lost a few because of the war in Afghanistan, so we don't tend to tolerate those sorts of opinions. Nonetheless, they're entitled to them, ironically, by the people they are condemning.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
I dunno. Part of me really wants to agree with you. These people disgust me just as much as you. But on the other hand, it's a free speech issue.

And it's not that much of an issue here, anyway. Just about every second car I see in my neck of the woods has a "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" bumper sticker on it. Our city has lost a few because of the war in Afghanistan, so we don't tend to tolerate those sorts of opinions. Nonetheless, they're entitled to them, ironically, by the people they are condemning.

Yeh i guess, i just don't think people with such anti-patriotic views should be welcomed by our society. Such comments contribute nothing to society.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Not being welcomed in society is one thing (and I agree that we should not personally tolerate those views). Deporting the people because of them is a whole different ball of wax.
 

moegypt

Active Member
We won't defeat the militant Islamic factions in Afghanistan without the use of genocide.

genocide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you want to cover the faliure of US in Afghanistan by using of genocide??? instead of this barbaric action

US can win the militant Islamic factions by political ways and by the immediate withdraw of Afghanistan because If US stay 100 years in Afghanistain they will not win the war.troops will never solve a problem.

to win militants, US should firstly review and changethe unlimited support to Israel and to stop send their soldiers to the middle east...that is the solution.
 

kai

ragamuffin
genocide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you want to cover the faliure of US in Afghanistan by using of genocide??? instead of this barbaric action

US can win the militant Islamic factions by political ways and by the immediate withdraw of Afghanistan because If US stay 100 years in Afghanistain they will not win the war.troops will never solve a problem.

to win militants, US should firstly review and changethe unlimited support to Israel and to stop send their soldiers to the middle east.
..that is the solution.

Is that a requirement of Peace with the Taliban?
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
you mean leave them to it! The only atmosphere suitable to Taliban is a Taliban one.


To be fair, who gives a damn about Afghanistan, we've no business there and never had.

The only thing now is, that we have a responsibility to clean up the actions of Blair and Bush, but then again, with it costing the lives of further innocents, is it really worth it?

I think we should all just pull out. It was never the intention of our troops to invade Afghanistan/Iraq, nor was it the intentions of the Civilians, so since they're the one's who will suffer - let's just pull out and arrest Bush and Blair.

Oh how likely that is LOL!

:(
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
genocide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you want to cover the faliure of US in Afghanistan by using of genocide??? instead of this barbaric action

US can win the militant Islamic factions by political ways and by the immediate withdraw of Afghanistan because If US stay 100 years in Afghanistain they will not win the war.troops will never solve a problem.

to win militants, US should firstly review and changethe unlimited support to Israel and to stop send their soldiers to the middle east...that is the solution.

It looks like you misunderstood my post. You actually managed to take the exact opposite of the meaning.

Edit: My point was the Taliban and other militant Islamic factions cannot be defeated by force of arms and I suggested withdrawing to the urban centres to protect the Afghan cities and to leave the tribal territories, train the Afghan army so that they can defend Afghanistan from the militant Islamic factions. After that is accomplished, withdraw from Afghanistan completely. I was not recommending genocide.
 
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