Why the lie?

[Dunemeister]

Be more specific. Do you want a translation reference or a KJV historical reference?

There are several issues. First, there's the issue of which original text you're using. Are you relying on the Hebrew or the Septuagint (Greek)? Second, there's the issue of textual criticism. Do we have any other uses of that word in or out of the bible that might shed light on its meaning? Third, there's the issue of rendering into English. Are there better words than "witch" or "sorceress" or whatever the offending word is? I'm looking for a reference that might deal with all this stuff.

 

[Dunemeister]

I guess this is where we'll always disagee & thats fine but who gave the Christians of the day the right to come & impose thier will on others? Might does not make right. :tsk:

Where's the imposition? Pagans were free to celebrate their festivals. That the church had an alternative didn't change that. Even in AD 600, the church was weak compared with the ancient culture, and that was true for a long time even after Christianity became the state religion. (The Roman emperors by this time had long ceased to be the omnipotent powers they once were, so official sanction did not mean that the church all of a sudden had vast Imperial powers at their disposal.)

This notion that the church ran about burning heretics and pagans willy-nilly, especially prior to the Middle Ages, is simply a crass distortion of history.

 

[gnomon]

I guess this is where we'll always disagee & thats fine but who gave the Christians of the day the right to come & impose thier will on others? Might does not make right. :tsk:

That's an easy question to answer.

The pagans did.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Where's the imposition? Pagans were free to celebrate their festivals. That the church had an alternative didn't change that. Even in AD 600, the church was weak compared with the ancient culture, and that was true for a long time even after Christianity became the state religion. (The Roman emperors by this time had long ceased to be the omnipotent powers they once were, so official sanction did not mean that the church all of a sudden had vast Imperial powers at their disposal.)

This notion that the church ran about burning heretics and pagans willy-nilly, especially prior to the Middle Ages, is simply a crass distortion of history.

Like you have asked others do you have any proof to back this up?

 

[McBell]

There are several issues. First, there's the issue of which original text you're using. Are you relying on the Hebrew or the Septuagint (Greek)? Second, there's the issue of textual criticism. Do we have any other uses of that word in or out of the bible that might shed light on its meaning? Third, there's the issue of rendering into English. Are there better words than "witch" or "sorceress" or whatever the offending word is? I'm looking for a reference that might deal with all this stuff.

which original?
You are kidding right?
How many "originals" are there?

 

[Dunemeister]

which original?
You are kidding right?
How many "originals" are there?

I'm quite serious. Are we starting with the Hebrew (Massoretic Text, for example) or the Greek (Septuagint) is what I'm asking. The other issues I've raised are all legitimate, too. I'm not actually questioning the claim of mistranslation. I don't know enough about it. I'm hoping someone can point me to a source that explains the issue at greater length.

 

[Dunemeister]

Like you have asked others do you have any proof to back this up?

Just about every history book written on the topic. I defy you to find one confirmed case of the church using military force to coerce conversions in the first six centuries of its existence.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Just about every history book written on the topic. I defy you to find one confirmed case of the church using military force to coerce conversions in the first six centuries of its existence.

Once again we're talking about to very different time periods I'm not even sure how we did that.

 

[DallasApple]

There are billions of Christians in the world today who believe that Christ was born on the 25th of dec, And that Easter was his rebirth. Then there are those who know that these days are truly Pagan holidays & try to tell others that they should stop celebrating them.

All Hallows Eve became All Saints day again was taken over by the Catholics

Same for Easter

Still my question still stands why if the christians were so sure that thier religion was the right one why didn't they let people come to God under thier own power?

I might of been wrong about the translation & thats fine with me, but the question still stands. Untill this day you hear preachers going off about how Witchcraft is a sin in the eyes of thier God, hence he is lieing to those people.

FOR me it isnt about the DATE...I dont care if its March 1st or June TEENTH...Just give me a date where my family can officially celebrate Christ birth and Christ death and resurection with our brothers and sisters in Christ..

All that matters is what it MEANS now to the person or persons celebrating it..And that sir..is NOT a lie..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh and by the way..I dont know about "billions" but Im pretty ignorant and I knew that DEC 25th was not litterally the day Christ was born..

I also know that Christmas trees and lights and many of our "rituals" surrounding Christian holidays originated from pagan rituals..

The point is ..again its what it means and represents to the one practicing it NOW..What is in their heart..what the meaning is to them...

Love

Dallas

 

[Gentoo]

There are billions of Christians in the world today who believe that Christ was born on the 25th of dec, And that Easter was his rebirth. Then there are those who know that these days are truly Pagan holidays & try to tell others that they should stop celebrating them.

All Hallows Eve became All Saints day again was taken over by the Catholics

Same for Easter

Still my question still stands why if the christians were so sure that thier religion was the right one why didn't they let people come to God under thier own power?

I might of been wrong about the translation & thats fine with me, but the question still stands. Untill this day you hear preachers going off about how Witchcraft is a sin in the eyes of thier God, hence he is lieing to those people.

What does it matter? Really?

Christians will continue to celebrate, as will us Pagans, in the way they deem fit. Who really cares which came first? They're both here now. Apparently, you disagree with Christmas and Easter, so don't celebrate them. It's that simple.

 

[gnomon]

What does it matter? Really?

Christians will continue to celebrate, as will us Pagans, in the way they deem fit. Who really cares which came first? They're both here now. Apparently, you disagree with Christmas and Easter, so don't celebrate them. It's that simple.

You mean one doesn't have to be an OG pagan to celebrate Easter! I was getting worried.

Oh happy day!:woohoo:

 

[DallasApple]

What does it matter? Really?

Christians will continue to celebrate, as will us Pagans, in the way they deem fit. Who really cares which came first? They're both here now. Apparently, you disagree with Christmas and Easter, so don't celebrate them. It's that simple.

Thank you Gentoo..You said what I meant..What difference does it make?..Sorry if he is mad we Christians stole the date to celebrate ..and string lights on a tree...

If it helps any maybe next Christmas I'll celbrate on Dec 26th...skip the tree...(I'll just decortate the ceiling fan with silly string and play do..)...

That will be 4 less of the billion Christians that are infringing on pagan rights ...

I can at least say my family is doing their part on revealing the lie...

Love

Dallas

Oh ..P.S...Is it O.K if I put Rudolph the red nosed Reindeer in my yard?..Oh..and am I allowed to build a frosty the snowman if we get enough snow to make one?

 

[Gentoo]

You mean one doesn't have to be an OG pagan to celebrate Easter! I was getting worried.

Oh happy day!:woohoo:

OG pagan?

 

[gnomon]

OG pagan?

original gangsta or "real" gangsta.

Playing off this whole concept that since Christians aren't pagans so they shouldn't be celebrating pagan holidays........and........well.........not referring to pagans as gangstas but the whole "real" or original......

So okay. It's not so funny.

Don't shoot me!

I just want to sit here and eat my creampuffs.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Debate forum..... geesh.... it's all part of the fun. If you don't like the topic don't respond it's that easy. I don't see anyone here whos mad

 

[Gentoo]

original gangsta or "real" gangsta.

Playing off this whole concept that since Christians aren't pagans so they shouldn't be celebrating pagan holidays........and........well.........not referring to pagans as gangstas but the whole "real" or original......

So okay. It's not so funny.

Don't shoot me!

I just want to sit here and eat my creampuffs.

Ahh, I get it sorry, it's late where I am.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Debate forum..... geesh.... it's all part of the fun. If you don't like the topic don't respond it's that easy. I don't see anyone here whos mad

Yeah, why would someone get mad by calling their Bible a lie?

 

[Kcnorwood]

Yeah, why would someone get mad by calling their Bible a lie?

Like I said debate fourm I've post topics that were nice & sweet before but they never go any where. We all get offened on here from time to time thats part of it.

 

[Gentoo]

Except this topic has been done to death. Nearly every holiday someone starts a thread like this to show everyone that Christians borrowed from Pagans.