Why the request for gold by the bible god?

[Super Universe]

The temple is a place for priests to glorify themselves. They wrote the Torah to give themselves power over the unknown things that ancient peoples were afraid of.

Why do you think ancient priests fought against science and learning about the human body? Because the more men learned about the universe the less they needed the priests.

Still today religion fights science, they fight against the theory of evolution because it robs them of the power over the people but people are no longer afraid. We can make up our own minds and we know right from wrong better than the priests do.

Is the gold meant for God? I suppose it is but can you tell me exactly how the priest packages and ships it off to the Creator?

Does sacrifice provide a deeper meaning for us? Do you still stone adulterers in the streets? Do you still sacrifice animals to God?

Why don't you? Isn't it because this is 2006 and you have grown up and matured into a being that knows right from wrong without having to look at the ten commandments?

Isn't it because you trust yourself, your own judgement, more than you trust these old priests who wrote a book?

Perhaps you do think the Torah is entirely divine, that is your choice. But what is your real motivation for believing that God chooses one group of humans over another?

Can God ever give up on others? Is it because they are truly evil without hope for salvation? Or is it because it makes you feel better about yourself?

 

[Halcyon]

The temple is a place for priests to glorify themselves. They wrote the Torah to give themselves power over the unknown things that ancient peoples were afraid of.

Does sacrifice provide a deeper meaning for us? Do you still stone adulterers in the streets? Do you still sacrifice animals to God?

Why don't you? Isn't it because this is 2006 and you have grown up and matured into a being that knows right from wrong without having to look at the ten commandments?

Isn't it because you trust yourself, your own judgement, more than you trust these old priests who wrote a book?

Perhaps you do think the Torah is entirely divine, that is your choice. But what is your real motivation for believing that God chooses one group of humans over another?

Can God ever give up on others? Is it because they are truly evil without hope for salvation? Or is it because it makes you feel better about yourself?

I think you should quit while your behind SU.

 

[jewscout]

The temple is a place for priests to glorify themselves. They wrote the Torah to give themselves power over the unknown things that ancient peoples were afraid of.

What?!? How about HaShem told the Israelites to build the thing...

Why do you think ancient priests fought against science and learning about the human body? Because the more men learned about the universe the less they needed the priests.

what does this have to do with anything?!?!

Is the gold meant for God? I suppose it is but can you tell me exactly how the priest packages and ships it off to the Creator?

or is the tribute given to keep up HaShem's Tabernacle, and later Temple, meant to remind us that all things are possible with G-d, and nothing is possible without G-d

Does sacrifice provide a deeper meaning for us?

yes it can if you choose to look...

Do you still stone adulterers in the streets?

without the proper court systems and mechanisms of Jewish law no punishment prescribed in Halachah can be carried out.

Do you still sacrifice animals to God?

Is there a Beit HaMikdash and Kohen to preform the ceremony? no. then the answer to your question is NO!

Why don't you? Isn't it because this is 2006 and you have grown up and matured into a being that knows right from wrong without having to look at the ten commandments?

Or because the mechanism to preform these rituals no longer exist...hello?!

Isn't it because you trust yourself, your own judgement, more than you trust these old priests who wrote a book?

I trust HaShem who revealed the Torah to Moshe Rabbeinu and Bnei Yisrael at Sinai

Perhaps you do think the Torah is entirely divine, that is your choice. But what is your real motivation for believing that God chooses one group of humans over another?

because i want to be an Ubermenschen and rule the world with the other Elders of Zion...
or maybe because Judaism has many positive things to teach such as you don't need to be a Jew to be a good and righteous person

Can God ever give up on others?

do you think for some reason Judaism teaches this??

Is it because they are truly evil without hope for salvation?

Salvation from what?!

Or is it because it makes you feel better about yourself?

now your just getting personal:no:

 

[spacemonkey]

I'm shocked ProfLogic! I thought you didn't believe the God of Exodus existed. But you now seem to confess that you believe the God of Exodus was capable of "self proclaimation". Only something that exists is capable of proclaiming itself to be a deity. What's up with this?

The God of Exodus exists all right, he is identified as Satan in the new testament and tempts Jesus with all he has created.

 

[ProfLogic]

But you referred to a 'self'- who's there to do the 'self-proclaiming' if there isn't a self?

To me its another awareness that can go into people's head. I call it self since it knows what is doing...... It proclaimed that it was the one god....and people believed it right away....

 

[Super Universe]

Halcyon: How am I behind? I am the only one who defends God here, she defends religion.

What?!? How about HaShem told the Israelites to build the thing...

Why does God need a building when He has the universe? He has galaxies and supergiant's, what does He need a human building for that will not last a fraction of the time they will?

what does this have to do with anything?!?!

Priests invent revelation and write it into a book that an entire faith is based upon. What does this have to do with anything? Nothing if you wish to follow old men.

or is the tribute given to keep up HaShem's Tabernacle, and later Temple, meant to remind us that all things are possible with G-d, and nothing is possible without G-d
yes it can if you choose to look...
without the proper court systems and mechanisms of Jewish law no punishment prescribed in Halachah can be carried out.
Is there a Beit HaMikdash and Kohen to preform the ceremony? no. then the answer to your question is NO!
Or because the mechanism to preform these rituals no longer exist...hello?!

So you allow your priests to override the divine revelation from God?

Giving gold reminds us that God can do anything? No, it makes us feel that we will gain favor with God through sacrifice.

God cannot favor us anymore than He already does. You cannot bribe Him.

I trust HaShem who revealed the Torah to Moshe Rabbeinu and Bnei Yisrael at Sinai
because i want to be an Ubermenschen and rule the world with the other Elders of Zion...
or maybe because Judaism has many positive things to teach such as you don't need to be a Jew to be a good and righteous person

Does your faith allow a person that is not Jewish to enter into heaven?

do you think for some reason Judaism teaches this??
Salvation from what?!
now your just getting personal:no:

I did not mean to be personal. I just asked a question. I really would like to know why Jews believe they are the chosen people.

 

[ProfLogic]

That's funny. What's the exact part in Exodus that you read this?

Try chapter 25... I am pretty sure more are in the bible.... It makes sense why rome and spain have their churches lavished with gold from other cultures who now seize to exist...

 

[ProfLogic]

And yet, Psalm 51:16 says that God does not desire sacrifice from us (including that of money, gold, etc.), but rather a contrite heart.

How about Exodus chapter 25?

 

[ProfLogic]

Why would God need or desire you to pay Him a ransom and kill an animal?

One possible reason for need for gold is that their enemies had lots of them and this is a test of the self proclaimed god to see how much its people is really devoted to it.

 

[ProfLogic]

quote me in Exodus where HaShem demands gold for His honor?

Please look into Chapter 25.....

 

[spacemonkey]

I'm sure you do know the Mishkan but when has this ever told the truth about God?

What do you think God did with this gold?
What do you think God did with animal sacrifices?

God in battle, on the side of one human against another? God could wave His hand and the enemy would disappear.

Surely you realize that this is something the ancient priests wrote in their Torah and not something that was revealed from angelic messengers.

It's the same thing as Athena favoring Achilles over Hector only with a new twist, monotheism.

Monotheism just replaces gods with angels, the stories and the messages they carry are all the same.

 

[ProfLogic]

What do you think God did with animal sacrifices?

From what we know today, animals have feelings to, have you heard a pig or a cow or a goat that is being slaugthered, they show human features like screaming, and yet they were slaughtered for the self proclaimed god? Does anyone do this today?

 

[Halcyon]

Halcyon: How am I behind? I am the only one who defends God here, she defends religion.

Huff/Jewscout is a man.

The God we are all talking about and debating originated in Judaism, any religion which claims to follow that God, to stem from Judaism, and any person who follows the beliefs originating in Judaism should, IMHO, defer to the Jewish understanding of that God and the related scripture.

For example, the Jews say Jesus didn't fulfill Messianic prophecy, therefore i do not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

Now, i don't believe the Jewish God is God, He isn't the Gnostic God so i can accept what Gnostic scripture says about the True God.
But someone who believes the Jewish God is God, like yourself, should understand that Jews know a lot more about him and about their scripture than you do.

 

[Super Universe]

Monotheism just replaces gods with angels, the stories and the messages they carry are all the same.

Exactly. That's the problem with looking for God outside of yourself, and only in some book written thousands of years ago. Don't use the ten commandments to know right from wrong, practice using your own conscience.

Revelation has always come to humans, since our beginnings, but we have not had much success in correctly interpreting it. Revelation comes to expand our thinking, to challenge our ability to accept the universe as it truly is instead of how we want it to be.

The earth is not the center of the universe regardless of the what the ancient priests demanded.

 

[jewscout]

Halcyon: How am I behind? I am the only one who defends God here, she defends religion.

first off...i'm a guy!

Why does God need a building when He has the universe? He has galaxies and supergiant's, what does He need a human building for that will not last a fraction of the time they will?

why is it always assumed that G-d needs it? perhaps He instructed it's construction because WE need it.

Priests invent revelation and write it into a book that an entire faith is based upon. What does this have to do with anything? Nothing if you wish to follow old men.

sort of like how early christian leaders invented the idea of a Second Coming since their messiah was dead as a doornail...

So you allow your priests to override the divine revelation from God?

you do realize that Kohens don't do a whole lot these days right?
and to answer your question, no, everything in Halachah is based on the Torah

Giving gold reminds us that God can do anything? No, it makes us feel that we will gain favor with God through sacrifice.

maybe from where you are sitting...as for me...i see it differently

You cannot bribe Him

I agree

Does your faith allow a person that is not Jewish to enter into heaven?

first of...Judaism's main focus is not the afterlife, but THIS life. I'm not trying to win my way into some sort of paradise.
But yes, the righteous of ALL nation have a place in the World to Come...
it should be noted, Judaism lacks a concept of eternal damnation or Hell.

I did not mean to be personal

but you did

I really would like to know why Jews believe they are the chosen people.

do you understand the concept of Choseness from a Jewish perspective?
They were chosen to be given the Torah, to be the way for the world to hear the message of the One G-d by living the way He told them to. Not because they are better or smarter or stronger or purer than anyone in the world, it says so in the Torah, G-d calls them a stiffnecked people. Jews are not better than anyone else and Judaism does not teach that.
You can believe in G-d, be a good and righteous person, be a non-jew AND IT'S OK!

 

[Super Universe]

Huff/Jewscout is a man.

The God we are all talking about and debating originated in Judaism, any religion which claims to follow that God, to stem from Judaism, and any person who follows the beliefs originating in Judaism should, IMHO, defer to the Jewish understanding of that God and the related scripture.

For example, the Jews say Jesus didn't fulfill Messianic prophecy, therefore i do not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

Now, i don't believe the Jewish God is God, He isn't the Gnostic God so i can accept what Gnostic scripture says about the True God.
But someone who believes the Jewish God is God, like yourself, should understand that Jews know a lot more about him and about their scripture than you do.

God originated in Judaism? Sigh... You don't even realize what you said, which is this "The Jews created God". They like to think they created Him for themselves but God does not choose one human over another.

There has been a belief in a supreme being since the beginning of humanity. Ra, Zeus, Jupiter, Brahma, one God over other, lesser gods, that we now call angels.

Revelation did not stop 4,000 years ago, it continues and it has evolved along with us as we are able to understand more. It will continue to do so in the future. Those who refuse to grow are simply left behind. That is their God given right to choose for themselves.

Why would I choose to believe that the Creator of the universe kills people? Simply because some ignorant priest a thousand years ago did not understand firey rocks falling from the sky (meteors) that hit Soddom?

Why would I choose to believe the Creator is jealous? What could He possibly be jealous of?

God has never done any of these terrible things attributed to Him in the Torah. People believe what they wish, the see what they wish, and they use books as and priests as an excuse.

Surely a Jew knows more about their book than I do but how do they know more about the Creator than I? Do you think the universe can be contained in a book?

Jesus did not fulifll messianic prophecy because that was not His purpose. Jesus came for all humanity not just for one small group. Human's can place no demands on God and His Son.

Try to see things from the Creator's view for once instead of as a simple temporary human who is so selfish that he doesn't even see the billions of other galaxies over his head and still thinks that God could possibly choose one small group over another.

It's not about you.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

To me its another awareness that can go into people's head. I call it self since it knows what is doing...... It proclaimed that it was the one god....and people believed it right away....

But we only have the people's record of it. We don't have god's. Maybe She wasn't actually wanting gold, just potluck dishes so that people could all have a nice meal with some fried chicken and potato salad. Somewhere, it may have been written down incorrectly, so when She was suggesting that people bring a bag of ice, someone misinterpreted it as gold.

 

[Halcyon]

God originated in Judaism? Sigh... You don't even realize what you said, which is this "The Jews created God". They like to think they created Him for themselves but God does not choose one human over another.

:banghead3
1) I'm pretty damn sure the Jews don't think they created God.
2) I didn't say that, but maybe i wasn't being clear. The God we are talking about is the Jewish God, the Jewish concept of God.
Christianity, Islam, Urantia - these all stem from the original Jewish concept of God.

Surely a Jew knows more about their book than I do but how do they know more about the Creator than I? Do you think the universe can be contained in a book?

They know more about the concept of God that is written about in their book than you, yes. They know more about the form of God that Urantia is based upon than you, yes.

Jesus did not fulifll messianic prophecy because that was not His purpose. Jesus came for all humanity not just for one small group. Human's can place no demands on God and His Son.

Says who? Christianity.
Where did Christianity originate? A Jewish sect.
Need i go on?

Try to see things from the Creator's view for once instead of as a simple temporary human who is so selfish that he doesn't even see the billions of other galaxies over his head and still thinks that God could possibly choose one small group over another.

It's not about you.

Thanks.

 

[jewscout]

Please look into Chapter 25.....

HaShem asks for gold, as well as other things, for building equipment

but what does He need with any of these things?

I still say that it's not for Him but for us, so that we in our finite understand would have a physical structure for central worship.

i could make the arguement, why does G-d care if i take care of orphans?

 

[dawny0826]

How about Exodus chapter 25?

Read in context.

Verses 1&2

"Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying "Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me and offering from everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering."

This isn't about materialism. The gold and other pretties really aren't an issue. The issue at hand in these verses is that God is asking for His children to willingly GIVE what He asks. The objects aren't important. God's looking for obedience and sacrifice from HIs children.

I don't really see what the big deal is.