Why the Worship of Ancient Greece and Rome?

[Audie]

Does it? Can't say I've noticed.

It subtle. You need a device like the one used to detect gravity waves.

 

[ChristineM]

It subtle. You need a device like the one used to detect gravity waves.

Or a modern history book.

 

[Harel13]

These societies were horrible to 90% of the folks who lived in them, so why does Western society glorify them so much?

This is true, I'm more talking about our tendency to worship Ancient Geece and Rome whilst chucking Mediaeval Europe almost completely under the bus.

Probably due to the people from the Renaissance and onwards who wanted to differentiate between themselves and the people from the previous generations by relating themselves to cultures they perceived to have been mighty and beautiful.

 

[Audie]

Or a modern history book.

Well, now, that's like expecting claimants
to have studied.

 

[Audie]

Probably due to the people from the Renaissance and onwards who wanted to differentiate between themselves and the people from the previous generations by relating themselves to cultures they perceived to have been mighty and beautiful.

If i had to quick decide where the time
machine would exile me, medieval England or ancient Athens, i will be heading for the Mediterranean.

 

[Harel13]

If i had to quick decide where the time
machine would exile me, medieval England or ancient Athens, i will be heading for the Mediterranean.

I'll be heading to Biblical Israel.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

These societies were horrible to 90% of the folks who lived in them, so why does Western society glorify them so much?

Are there any modern Western countries that didn't start glorifying Rome when they weren't also empires built on the backs of slaves?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The Enlightement gave us a skewed view that everything post fall of Rome up to the Enlightenment was horrible. That Greece and Rome were better and the Middle Ages were some of of millennia long mistake wherein nothing good really happened.

Well, I like how you throw everybody under the bus with your "us". Maybe the past is as complex as the present and there is good and bad in both and we can still learn.

 

[PureX]

These societies were horrible to 90% of the folks who lived in them, so why does Western society glorify them so much?

They excuse (justify) our similar behavior and they made pretty buildings and statues. It does't take much to impress people.

 

[Rival]

If i had to quick decide where the time
machine would exile me, medieval England or ancient Athens, i will be heading for the Mediterranean.

Being a woman in the ancient Mediterranean would have been little better.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does it? Can't say I've noticed.

There are a LOT of cities and towns in the Eastern US whose names are allusions to Rome and Greece (Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc.), and neoclassicism is basically the architectural style for important American government buildings (state and federal).

I'd say the impact is less here in Canada, though I live not too far from here and can order pizza from here.

 

[ChristineM]

There are a LOT of cities and towns in the Eastern US whose names are allusions to Rome and Greece (Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc.), and neoclassicism is basically the architectural style for important American government buildings (state and federal).

I'd say the impact is less here in Canada, though I live not too far from here and can order pizza from here.

But is that worship or copying what works?

 

[Jack11]

Please explain how and who is worshipping ancient Greece and Rome?There is history of these nations but worship thats a giant leap. Naming a town is worshipping ?

 

[Polymath257]

Well, part of the reason is that there was a huge break in the 1600's in the rejection of Aristotelian philosophy. That was a requirement for the development of modern science.

Also, most of the discussions from the medieval period (from 500AD to about 1500AD) have very little impact on the development of science after 1600. Most of the medieval time period was discussions of Aristotelian or Platonic philosophy and needed to be rejected before the real advances of science could occur. Almost no actual science (observation and testing of ideas) was done during this period, although a lot of theoretical discussion was done. The one exception is in astronomy.

The ancient Greek stage was wrong in most ways, but it did discuss a lot of different possibilities that were summarily dismissed in the medieval period (even including a heliocentric model, an atomic model, etc). In a sense, it got the ball rolling, although not necessarily in the right direction. The medieval period kept the ball rolling in the wrong direction, for the most part.

So, I agree that the medieval period isn't addressed nearly as much as it should. For the early medieval period, that is largely the result of a lack of original documents. Many of the societies had low literacy and simply didn't leave many details of what happened (try finding details o the history of Sueta, for example). The later medieval period was so dominated by scholasticism that it has very little relevance for later developments (although, again, there are interesting exceptions).

Another aspects is that even though some advances were made, they were often not transmitted to later generations. For example. Oresme discovered many interesting things about uniformly accelerated motion, but nobody took his advances and added to them. It took Galileo to rediscover these ideas before they became part of the mainstream discussions.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, part of the reason is that there was a huge break in the 1600's in the rejection of Aristotelian philosophy. That was a requirement for the development of modern science.

Also, most of the discussions from the medieval period (from 500AD to about 1500AD) have very little impact on the development of science after 1600. Most of the medieval time period was discussions of Aristotelian or Platonic philosophy and needed to be rejected before the real advances of science could occur. Almost no actual science (observation and testing of ideas) was done during this period, although a lot of theoretical discussion was done. The one exception is in astronomy.

The ancient Greek stage was wrong in most ways, but it did discuss a lot of different possibilities that were summarily dismissed in the medieval period (even including a heliocentric model, an atomic model, etc). In a sense, it got the ball rolling, although not necessarily in the right direction. The medieval period kept the ball rolling in the wrong direction, for the most part.

So, I agree that the medieval period isn't addressed nearly as much as it should. For the early medieval period, that is largely the result of a lack of original documents. Many of the societies had low literacy and simply didn't leave many details of what happened (try finding details o the history of Sueta, for example). The later medieval period was so dominated by scholasticism that it has very little relevance for later developments (although, again, there are interesting exceptions).

Another aspects is that even though some advances were made, they were often not transmitted to later generations. For example. Oresme discovered many interesting things about uniformly accelerated motion, but nobody took his advances and added to them. It took Galileo to rediscover these ideas before they became part of the mainstream discussions.

Yet for some basic idea about logic and rationality, they are still with us,

 

[Polymath257]

Scholars have long since dropped the term Dark Ages.

The Mediaeval period gave us much science and gave rise to the modern university. It was not the horrible dark period folks believe. This idea is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about really, 'Ancient Greece was science and the Middle Ages were anti-science'.

It is also a good idea to separate the early middle ages from the high middle ages. After the translation movement of the 11th and 12th centuries, there was a lot more intellectual activity than before. Also literacy (and the universities) grew during the latter time period.

The Carolingian efflorescence in the late 8th and early 9th centuries made some advances, but the period from 500AD to 800AD was pretty bad from a cultural and intellectual perspective. Part of that is due to the horridly low literacy rate. That also leads to a LOT of ignorance about that time period as there are simply no real records. Those that we have are few and far between and mostly written as propaganda.

 

[Audie]

I'll be heading to Biblical Israel.

That would be very educational

 

[Augustus]

If i had to quick decide where the time
machine would exile me, medieval England or ancient Athens, i will be heading for the Mediterranean.

Other than the weather, why?

Women had fewer rights in ancient Athens and were far more likely to be slaves or be raped. Even rich women had minimal rights and were often kept in seclusion.

The average woman would be better of in medieval England. More chance to be educated, run a business have some degree of influence, etc.

Weather wasn't great though...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But is that worship or copying what works?

I think it goes beyond merely "copying what works" to describe (and depict) George Washington as "a modern Cincinnatus," for example.

I don't think it's too strong to say that the leaders of the early US worshipped Rome. I think the perpetuation of that architectural style has more to do with it now being associated with "America" (and specifically, American government) than direct allusion to Rome.

 

[Rival]

Other than the weather, why?

Women had fewer rights in ancient Athens and were far more likely to be slaves or be raped. Even rich women had minimal rights and were often kept in seclusion.

The average woman would be better of in medieval England. More chance to be educated, run a business have some degree of influence, etc.

Weather wasn't great though...

Because evil Christians.