Why would God send good people to Hell just because they dont believe he exists?

[blueman]

not according to gen 8:21



no, this passages says there is absolutely no inclination to do good...
our imagination is evil...not a part of it...if you can present to me a passage that says god thinks we have the potential to be good...i'll concede.
so far from what i have read is that we are lowly creatures who are not capable of being good...the only thing that is good in us is jesus in us...

do you tell your children, 'no matter how hard you try, if you are not just like me you failed'?

Have you ever done one good thing in your life? If so, you do have the capacity to do good. On the flip side, because of sin, we also can embrace some evil thoughts and actions. This is why we need a righteous God to save us. We can't do it on our own.

 

[waitasec]

I don't believe either of us can prove what is faulty and what is not.

If God does not exist, there is no issue.

If God does exist, we will all have to deal with him on his terms not ours.

however, this idea of god sending people to hell is what i take issue with, i am not concerned with the existence of god...
i am concerned about little children being indoctrinated before they can form their own ideas from their own life experience

I personally trust that God will do what is just. I don't judge people and try my best to treat everyone like I would want to be treated.

do you like it when people challenge your ideals for the purpose of growth and progress?
i wouldn't say it's a comfortable place to be, but i certainly do appreciate it.

The more I study religion, the more I believe that the word of God has been perverted over time to reflect the desires of man not God.

If there is a God, I believe he will be fair and just. The thing is, an all powerful God will not be challenged with much success. The devil comes to mind, I would not want to be him.

if there is a god, i don't think he'd care one iota if i believed in him or not because at the end of the day how i feel (regret vs. satisfaction) about myself (convictions) and what i've done ( the courage to stand with my convictions) is what matters.

and honestly...i believe every empathetic person (which i think is almost everyone except for those who are wired differently) has that goal...

:group:

 

[waitasec]

Have you ever done one good thing in your life? If so, you do have the capacity to do good. On the flip side, because of sin, we also can embrace some evil thoughts and actions. This is why we need a righteous God to save us. We can't do it on our own.

do what on our own?

life is about learning.

that is what i mean when i said the idea of being created sick and presented with an ultimatum for not finding a cure is a baffles me.

 

[blueman]

do what on our own?

life is about learning.

that is what i mean when i said the idea of being created sick and presented with an ultimatum for not finding a cure is a baffles me.

We can't save ourselves from the condemnation that results from sin and have a relationship with God. That only comes through Jesus Christ.

 

[Yanni]

what about
do not subject another human being...?

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[waitasec]

We can't save ourselves from the condemnation that results from sin and have a relationship with God. That only comes through Jesus Christ.

the condemnation your god set up for being created fallible...


don't you think it's interesting a muslim would say the exact same thing with the exception of mohummad....?

 

[waitasec]

What's that supposed to mean?

what do you think it means?

 

[Yanni]

what do you think it means?

I think your saying that God is unjust for subjecting human beings (Whom HE created against their will) to obey His Will.

 

[waitasec]

I think your saying that God is unjust for subjecting human beings (Whom HE created against their will) to obey His Will.

nope, i was thinking about slavery, genocide, human trafficking...

 

[Yanni]

nope, i was thinking about slavery, genocide, human trafficking...

And that's because without God and the morals that He set in place, mankind can succumb to the most evil depths of his heart and carry out the most heinous crimes. And if you'll tell me that civilized men and nations wouldn't need God because they can come up with that on its own, just look at civilized Nazi Germany and what evil even a civilized nation is capable of.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

the concept of creating us sick and then presented with an ultimatum for not finding a cure
stumps me....

The explanation the Bible provides is that sin wasn't a part of God's original plan but entered the picture when Adam, the first man, first disobeyed God. It was a that point that Adam and his descendants (all of us) were infected with sin. The idea that we have a degree of solidarity with our ancestors as far back as Adam is very difficult for Westerners to understand.

 

[waitasec]

The explanation the Bible provides is that sin wasn't a part of God's original plan but entered the picture when Adam, the first man, first disobeyed God. It was a that point that Adam and his descendants (all of us) were infected with sin. The idea that we have a degree of solidarity with our ancestors as far back as Adam is very difficult for Westerners to understand.

hardly an explanation
this is why i say that...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2541047-post333.html

 

[-Peacemaker-]

hardly an explanation
this is why i say that...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2541047-post333.html

I read your attempt to explain it and I think you're making it too complicated. Adam and Eve wanted knowledge that God had and they didn't have. They wanted to be elevated from their humble circumstances and be like God in their knowledge but they also wanted to depend on themselves and go outside God's will to gain that knowledge. Hence, they did it their own way and reaped the consequence of being separated from God which is the death that the Bible is talking about. It is the explanation that the Bible provides for why so many of us are separated from God's love today.

 

[Katzpur]

Im going to get straight to the point... Why would God send people to Hell for being Good Careing Decent people?

I'll get straight to the point, too. He wouldn't. Incidentally, that's not just my personal take on the subject. That is the official LDS view.

 

[waitasec]

And that's because without God and the morals that He set in place, mankind can succumb to the most evil depths of his heart and carry out the most heinous crimes. And if you'll tell me that civilized men and nations wouldn't need God because they can come up with that on its own, just look at civilized Nazi Germany and what evil even a civilized nation is capable of.

tell me what was written on the soldiers belt buckle...?
"Gott mit uns" ("God is with us")


remember humans are evolving primates... god condoned the beating of slaves within an inch of their lives and the selling off of their children... funny, god is no better than we are

 

[waitasec]

I read your attempt to explain it and I think you're making it too complicated.

no, actually it's quite simple.

Adam and Eve wanted knowledge that God had and they didn't have.
They wanted to be elevated from their humble circumstances and be like God in their knowledge but they also wanted to depend on themselves and go outside God's will to gain that knowledge. Hence, they did it their own way and reaped the consequence of being separated from God which is the death that the Bible is talking about. It is the explanation that the Bible provides for why so many of us are separated from God's love today.

well that poses a problem for you to solve...
how is that they knew they didn't have knowledge...?
if one is in a state of innocence they don't know the concept of boundaries
they are free without the knowledge of limitation. the mere idea that god placed a restriction only shows that they knew, right?

so were they ignorant of the knowledge of good and evil or not

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Isn't it possible for someone to be denied knowledge without knowing what that knowledge actually is? The Devil tempted them by saying that the knowledge they would gain would make them like God. Is it possible to comprehend God's command not to eat something without understanding the full nature of good and evil?

 

[Acim]

How about...

We let the dead bury the dead...

(and in relation to any ideas of Hell we may have, or are invoking, we instead)

... go and proclaim the kingdom of God

 

[The Sum of Awe]

For people saying non believers don't go to hell simply for not believing -

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

It doesn't say nonbelievers will perish in exact words, but it has its own way of saying that.

 

[Katzpur]

Is it possible to comprehend God's command not to eat something without understanding the full nature of good and evil?

Of course it's not. How could it be? If you don't have a knowledge of good and evil, how can you know that disobeying God qualifies as "evil"? Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but technically, they did not "sin," because sinning is the willful transgression against a moral law or religious principle. Until there is an understanding of good and evil, moral laws are meaningless. Consequently, there were consequences to Adam and Eve for disobeying, just as God told them there would be, bit it's hardly reasonable for us to blame them for sinning when they acted innocently, not being able to distinguish between good and evil until they ate the forbidden fruit.