Why would Muhammad pbuh say that

[FearGod]

Your logic is fallacious. See survivorship bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Anyway, neither of them seem to be particularly true. Of course you will say 'we don't know what will happen in the future yet'

I'm still waiting for the Byzantine Empire to be reestablished so that you can fight them to bring about the apocalypse as per prophecy

Survivor bias has nothing to do with our discussion and if it does then explain why and how ?

Clarify why neither of them seem to be true, is't your opinion or you have a strong proof supporting it and what
the relation between what i had said and the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire ?

 

[Augustus]

Survivor bias has nothing to do with our discussion and if it does then explain why and how ?

Clarify why neither of them seem to be true, is't your opinion or you have a strong proof supporting it and what
the relation between what i had said and the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire ?

1) Survivorship bias is relevant for 2 reasons. 1 is that any prophecy that was clearly false couldn't be considered sahih so must be a fabrication. The 2nd is to do with the idea that if Islam had been unsuccessful, you wouldn't have heard that hadith. Basing probability on only the visible 'survivor' makes likely things seem far more 'miraculous'. Same sort of logic that you winning the lottery would be amazing, someone winning the lottery is to be expected.

2) Because 85% of the world is non Muslim, I don't see is as 'dominant'.

3) When a 'prophecy' is sort of possibly 'true' if you look at it in a certain way with a large degree of credulity, you expect everyone to be amazed by it. But, when a prophecy is clearly factually incorrect, you pretend it meant something completely different.

No prophecy can ever be incorrect under your logic, but you think non-muslims are being dishonest if they don't see other mundane comments as being miraculous.

 

[FearGod]

1) Survivorship bias is relevant for 2 reasons. 1 is that any prophecy that was clearly false couldn't be considered sahih so must be a fabrication. The 2nd is to do with the idea that if Islam had been unsuccessful, you wouldn't have heard that hadith. Basing probability on only the visible 'survivor' makes likely things seem far more 'miraculous'. Same sort of logic that you winning the lottery would be amazing, someone winning the lottery is to be expected.

2) Because 85% of the world is non Muslim, I don't see is as 'dominant'.

3) When a 'prophecy' is sort of possibly 'true' if you look at it in a certain way with a large degree of credulity, you expect everyone to be amazed by it. But, when a prophecy is clearly factually incorrect, you pretend it meant something completely different.

No prophecy can ever be incorrect under your logic, but you think non-muslims are being dishonest if they don't see other mundane comments as being miraculous.

Where did i reject one hadith and accepted the other ?
Where did i say that all the world are Muslims ?
Which prophecies that i said it means something different while some others means what it says ?

 

[Augustus]

Where did i reject one hadith and accepted the other ?

Never mind, it was about probability, not you.

Where did i say that all the world are Muslims ?

The quotes said 'dominate' the Eastern and Western world. Being outnumbered 6 to 1 is not domination in most people's opinion.

Which prophecies that i said it means something different while some others means what it says ?

Do you accept that 'rum'/Romans clearly referred to the Byzantine Empire?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) assaying: The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq. An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of thepeople of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteractthem). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say:Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethrenthat you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of thearmy would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part ofthe army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed ani the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople.

You used to think it meant Christians despite the large amount of evidence that shows that to be illogical.

We discussed it in detail here

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...-conspiracy-and-prophecy.172609/#post-4117690

 

[FearGod]

Never mind, it was about probability, not you.

So it wasn't a survivor bias that you accused me of it.

The quotes said 'dominate' the Eastern and Western world. Being outnumbered 6 to 1 is not domination in most people's opinion.

Yes after the death of the prophet Islam dominated the east and the west, how that wasn't true.

Do you accept that 'rum'/Romans clearly referred to the Byzantine Empire?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) assaying: The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq. An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of thepeople of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteractthem). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say:Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethrenthat you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of thearmy would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part ofthe army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed ani the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople.

You used to think it meant Christians despite the large amount of evidence that shows that to be illogical.

We discussed it in detail here

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...-conspiracy-and-prophecy.172609/#post-4117690

I don't understand your point, Did Romans mean the Indians or the Chinese or the Iranians ?
What do you think he meant by the Romans ?

 

[Augustus]

So it wasn't a survivor bias that you accused me of it.

It was an answer to your question

Yes after the death of the prophet Islam dominated the east and the west, how that wasn't true.

If by dominated the East and West you actually mean "was the 2nd biggest Empire in the world behind Tang Dynasty China", then I suppose it's true.

I don't understand your point, Did Romans mean the Indians or the Chinese or the Iranians ?
What do you think he meant by the Romans ?

Byzantine Empire, read your tafsir.

 

[FearGod]

Byzantine Empire, read your tafsir.

Which tafsir and what it says ?

 

[Augustus]

Which tafsir and what it says ?

The Byzantines — who are among the People of the Scripture — have been vanquished; the Persians vanquished them, and they are not people of a scripture, but worship graven images. The Meccan disbelievers rejoiced in this [defeat of the Byzantines] and said to the Muslims, ‘We shall vanquish you as the Persians vanquished the Byzantines’;

Tafsir al Jalalayn

 

[FearGod]

The Byzantines — who are among the People of the Scripture — have been vanquished; the Persians vanquished them, and they are not people of a scripture, but worship graven images. The Meccan disbelievers rejoiced in this [defeat of the Byzantines] and said to the Muslims, ‘We shall vanquish you as the Persians vanquished the Byzantines’;

Tafsir al Jalalayn

I didn't get your point ?

 

[Augustus]

I didn't get your point ?

Quran 30:2

 

[FearGod]

Quran 30:2

What the problem with this verse ?

 

[Augustus]

What the problem with this verse ?

No problem.

It just shows that Rum relates to the Byzantine Empire. It is only ever used to mean Byzantine Empire. It is never used to mean anything else.

The only reason to think it means something else is that the prophecy was falsified when the Byzantine Empire ended.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Surat alaraf verse eighteen percent after:

Say: I do not have to hurt myself useful not only what, God willing, if I knew the unseen to Acetkthert of good and what touched me so bad that I am but a plain and Bashir for those who believe (188) (
قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعاً وَلَا ضَرّاً إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنْتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (188)﴾
This verse from the Koran denies all predictions Mohammed
Because it says to people I am a missionary and Munther only
I hope this note the contradiction between the Koran and between that conversation

 

[FearGod]

No problem.

It just shows that Rum relates to the Byzantine Empire. It is only ever used to mean Byzantine Empire. It is never used to mean anything else.

The only reason to think it means something else is that the prophecy was falsified when the Byzantine Empire ended.

How isn't related ?
Doesn't the Byzantine Empire mean the eastern Roman Empire.

 

[FearGod]

Surat alaraf verse eighteen percent after:

Say: I do not have to hurt myself useful not only what, God willing, if I knew the unseen to Acetkthert of good and what touched me so bad that I am but a plain and Bashir for those who believe (188) (
قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعاً وَلَا ضَرّاً إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَوْ كُنْتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (188)﴾
This verse from the Koran denies all predictions Mohammed
Because it says to people I am a missionary and Munther only
I hope this note the contradiction between the Koran and between that conversation

Who said that the prophet is all knowing about the future ?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes.Yes.Yes....that's true

Such as world war 1 & 2

World War I and the second was for the interests
It did not declare war for God
Jihad did not announce the sake of Allah
I have used terms fighters home
And the defense of the homeland as well as the term re-glories of the nation and the Germanic empire Reich

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Who said that the prophet is all knowing about the future ?

Prophecy made by you in this matter
Do you want to cancel this topic

 

[Augustus]

How isn't related ?
Doesn't the Byzantine Empire mean the eastern Roman Empire.

Yes.

I'm saying that Rum = Byzantine Empire, so the hadith about the end of days featuring Rum must be false as Rum disappeared over 500 years ago. Maybe it was forged, who knows, the fact is that it is false, unless the Byzantine Empire reappears in the future.

Do you agree that Rum only ever meant the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire and has no other meaning? That is my point.

 

[FearGod]

Yes.

I'm saying that Rum = Byzantine Empire, so the hadith about the end of days featuring Rum must be false as Rum disappeared over 500 years ago. Maybe it was forged, who knows, the fact is that it is false, unless the Byzantine Empire reappears in the future.

Do you agree that Rum only ever meant the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire and has no other meaning? That is my point.

Europe to us is the Rum, before and now and then.

 

[FearGod]

Prophecy made by you in this matter
Do you want to cancel this topic