Why would Muhammad pbuh say that

[Sabour]

I would like to ask this question to the members here to listen to their opinion. The thought of asking such a question hit me while am watching this video. ( Watching the specified minutes from the video will make you understand the question more)

Yusuf Estes said at 13:50: By the way if you're gonna make up a religion and make a prophecy about it you would never prophecy that it will one day fall apart would you? No. And you would never prophecy something that it would make it look like ... there must be some problems, you wouldn't do that, but he was clear on these issues we are talking about.

Starting from minute 34:00, he started talking about a hadith. at 35:10 still talking about the hadith, he mentions that companions were asking about the conditions of muslims in now adays. They asked will we be few in numbers? The prophet said you will be all over the earth like the scum or the foam on a flood.(there are many other hadiths also talking about the weak position of muslims and Islam)

Now my question is if Muhammad peace be upon him wasn't a prophet who speak about prophecies and only say the truth, why would he say such things that would make Islam look as if it will fall apart?

 

[YmirGF]

I'm not sure why Estes would take this particular track. Personally, I think it would be a very shrewd move to "prophesize" the demise of the religion you are bringing simply because all religions fail eventually. Inherently, people know this. It would lend an air of authority because the chances of a religion going off the rails of its original intent and form are almost 100%. In that respect it is such a safe assertion that it isn't really worthy of being called a prediction.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Many religions say that at the end of time or at the end of a corrupt age, the "true" practice of the religion will fall apart and "true" believers will be few in number. Christianity and the Dharmic religions say that. The Greeks had something similar with their Golden Age concept. This isn't anything special. It does lead to religious fanaticism, as with ISIS, where people think they're "restoring" the "true" version of their religion. (There's fanatical "restorationist" versions of Christianity and Hinduism, as well.)

 

[FearGod]

I'm not sure why Estes would take this particular track. Personally, I think it would be a very shrewd move to "prophesize" the demise of the religion you are bringing simply because all religions fail eventually. Inherently, people know this. It would lend an air of authority because the chances of a religion going off the rails of its original intent and form are almost 100%. In that respect it is such a safe assertion that it isn't really worthy of being called a prediction.

What's the relation between religion and being weak in power in the future times,
Do Christians weak in power similar to Muslims in nowadays because that what should
happen for every religion at the end, your analysis doesn't make any sense.

 

[YmirGF]

What's the relation between religion and being weak in power in the future times,
Do Christians weak in power similar to Muslims in nowadays because that what should
happen for every religion at the end, your analysis doesn't make any sense.

I don't think one can compare Christianity with Islam in this regard, as Islam is a total way of life whereas Christianity never pretended to be. In religious terms, Christianity has far less influence on our day to day lives than it did in years gone by. The power of the church is considerably weakened, but that does not mean that many Christians do not continue to have considerable influence. In secular societies they must, necessarily, curb their religious nature to navigate through secular society. Again, in that respect the influence of Christianity is considerably weaker, from the pulpit, as it were.

Muslims, sadly, have inherited their own self-created mess and religion, due to dogmatic doctrines, still has considerable power over the masses in Muslim countries. To be uncharacteristically generous, it is the very thing that made the Muslim world a force to be reckoned with that contained the seeds of its own destruction. Islam does not look kindly on innovation.

 

[Augustus]

Did it not say, Islam will be widespread but few will be devout? They will focus on money and worldly status rather than God?

Can't see why anyone could possibly have fabricated such a hadith in 8th-10th C Mesopotamia, when the clerics were vying for power as regards the Caliphs and Muslims were fighting each other frequently. Must be genuine, that's the only possible explanation...

 

[FearGod]

Did it not say, Islam will be widespread but few will be devout? They will focus on money and worldly status rather than God?

Can't see why anyone could possibly have fabricated such a hadith in 8th-10th C Mesopotamia, when the clerics were vying for power as regards the Caliphs and Muslims were fighting each other frequently. Must be genuine, that's the only possible explanation...

A fabricated hadith and the one thinking that every religion usually will lead at the end to a weak nation gave you a like.

 

[FearGod]

I don't think one can compare Christianity with Islam in this regard, as Islam is a total way of life whereas Christianity never pretended to be. In religious terms, Christianity has far less influence on our day to day lives than it did in years gone by. The power of the church is considerably weakened, but that does not mean that many Christians do not continue to have considerable influence. In secular societies they must, necessarily, curb their religious nature to navigate through secular society. Again, in that respect the influence of Christianity is considerably weaker, from the pulpit, as it were.

Muslims, sadly, have inherited their own self-created mess and religion, due to dogmatic doctrines, still has considerable power over the masses in Muslim countries. To be uncharacteristically generous, it is the very thing that made the Muslim world a force to be reckoned with that contained the seeds of its own destruction. Islam does not look kindly on innovation.

Read what you said "simply because all religions fail eventually" , "such a safe assertion that it isn't really worthy of being called a prediction", and also you agree that it's a fabricated hadith with a like to Augustus.

But your assertion that all religions will lead to a weak nation at the end is absolutely wrong, no relation between
religion and how the strength of the nation will be years to come.

 

[Augustus]

A fabricated hadith and the one thinking that every religion usually will lead at the end to a weak nation gave you a like.

Some sahih hadith are clearly false (Heraclius wanting to wash Muhammed's feet for example).

Forgive me if I'm unimpressed by others that claim to 'prove' anything.

 

[YmirGF]

Read what you said "simply because all religions fail eventually" , "such a safe assertion that it isn't really worthy of being called a prediction", and also you agree that it's a fabricated hadith with a like to Augustus.

But your assertion that all religions will lead to a weak nation at the end is absolutely wrong, no relation between
religion and how the strength of the nation will be years to come.

Your inability to see the relationship is unimpressive and wholly expected.

 

[FearGod]

Some sahih hadith are clearly false (Heraclius wanting to wash Muhammed's feet for example).

Forgive me if I'm unimpressed by others that claim to 'prove' anything.

And what if it wasn't a fabricated hadith, will that change your opinion about Islam.

 

[FearGod]

Your inability to see the relationship is unimpressive and wholly expected.

Good that you can expect one thing and which is even wrong.

 

[Augustus]

And what if it wasn't a fabricated hadith, will that change your opinion about Islam.

Knowing that some sahih haidth are fabricated means I find it hard to accept any as true. Some are probably authentic, but I can't separate the true from the false. Why would any amaze me if they could easily be explained by later events?

You can believe it f you want, but just because someone else doesn't that doesn't mean they are biased.

Do you believe all sahih hadith are true?

 

[Rival]

And what if it wasn't a fabricated hadith, will that change your opinion about Islam.

No, but it might change my opinion about Heraclius

 

[FearGod]

Knowing that some sahih haidth are fabricated means I find it hard to accept any as true. Some are probably authentic, but I can't separate the true from the false. Why would any amaze me if they could easily be explained by later events?

You can believe it f you want, but just because someone else doesn't that doesn't mean they are biased.

Do you believe all sahih hadith are true?

My question was precise, if you were sure that the hadith was sahih and true will
that change your opinion about Islam

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I would like to ask this question to the members here to listen to their opinion. The thought of asking such a question hit me while am watching this video. ( Watching the specified minutes from the video will make you understand the question more)

Yusuf Estes said at 13:50: By the way if you're gonna make up a religion and make a prophecy about it you would never prophecy that it will one day fall apart would you? No. And you would never prophecy something that it would make it look like ... there must be some problems, you wouldn't do that, but he was clear on these issues we are talking about.

Starting from minute 34:00, he started talking about a hadith. at 35:10 still talking about the hadith, he mentions that companions were asking about the conditions of muslims in now adays. They asked will we be few in numbers? The prophet said you will be all over the earth like the scum or the foam on a flood.(there are many other hadiths also talking about the weak position of muslims and Islam)

Now my question is if Muhammad peace be upon him wasn't a prophet who speak about prophecies and only say the truth, why would he say such things that would make Islam look as if it will fall apart?

Better than the predictions of Nostradamus prophecies of Muhammad

 

[Augustus]

My question was precise, if you were sure that the hadith was sahih and true will
that change your opinion about Islam

What is remarkable about it?

If it is true, it is a man whose key message is that people have stopped following their religion properly making a comment about people not following their religion properly.

 

[FearGod]

What is remarkable about it?

If it is true, it is a man whose key message is that people have stopped following their religion properly making a comment about people not following their religion properly.

Then why you said it's a fabricated hadith, to you it's all the same whether it was a fabricated hadith or not, nothing remarkable about it, right !?

 

[Augustus]

Then why you said it's a fabricated hadith, to you it's all the same whether it was a fabricated hadith or not, nothing remarkable about it, right !?

Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death."

Having looked at the actual text of the hadith, I probably misinterpreted it from the comments of the OP and listening to the chap speak.

It's more like a team-talk than a prophecy. I thought it was a statement about the ummah in general rather than a pep talk for warriors.

 

[FearGod]

Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death."

Having looked at the actual text of the hadith, I probably misinterpreted it from the comments of the OP and listening to the chap speak.

It's more like a team-talk than a prophecy. I thought it was a statement about the ummah in general rather than a pep talk for warriors.

So do you think the hadith isn't fabricated but not remarkable ?