Why would the 'loving' God of mainstream Christinaity do this?

[Katzpur]

In cases such as those listed above, how could God justify not giving you a chance to learn His Sovereign Will at transition? The answer is that it's our hearts that are read and by which we are judged - not our religious beliefs - not whether or not we've been given the opportunity to know Jesus via the Scriptures. If those people in the situations in which they simply don't know or haven't been exposed have a humble heart, that is the only requirement for Christ's Salvation. Because once they are with Christ, he knows their humble hearts will accept him. "Above all else safeguard your heart, for it is the source of life." Proverbs 4:23

So you're saying that it really isn't necessary to accept Christ after all, that if you have a good heart, a belief in Christ is beside the point? Wow! I would never have gotten that out of Mark 16:16... "he that believeth not shall be damned."

 

[Sasa]

So you're saying that it really isn't necessary to accept Christ after all, that if you have a good heart, a belief in Christ is beside the point? Wow! I would never have gotten that out of Mark 16:16... "he that believeth not shall be damned."

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Acceptance of Christ as well as a good heart condition are BOTH required. Whether or not we accept Christ is also written upon our hearts. That is why our hearts will be read and why we will be judged by our hearts as well. Please refer to "The Kingdom Message" thread or click on my Journal link below for more details.

 

[Katzpur]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Acceptance of Christ as well as a good heart condition are BOTH required. Whether or not we accept Christ is also written upon our hearts. That is why our hearts will be read and why we will be judged by our hearts as well. Please refer to "The Kingdom Message" thread or click on my Journal link below for more details.

If BOTH are required, what do you believe will be the fate of those who never heard of Christ? Will only a "good heart" be required of them? (Incidentally, I believe both are required, too. I just don't see how it's possible to accept someone you know nothing of.)

 

[Sasa]

If BOTH are required, what do you believe will be the fate of those who never heard of Christ? Will only a "good heart" be required of them? (Incidentally, I believe both are required, too. I just don't see how it's possible to accept someone you know nothing of.)

Because for those with a humble heart, once they are with Christ, he knows they will accept him.

 

[Katzpur]

Because for those with a humble heart, once they are with Christ, he knows they will accept him.

I'm not trying to be difficult, Sasa, but I'm afraid I still don't understand what you're getting at. Are you saying that, after death, these people will go to heaven and then, once they are actually with Jesus, they will accept Him and He will recognize that?

 

[Ezzedean]

I believe that God came in human form so humankind could understand HIM, not the other way around.

Matthew 24
But be not ye called Rabbi, for ONE is your master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren. And call NO MAN your father upon THE EARTH: for ONE is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters, for ONE is your Master, even Christ.
Is Jesus (who's standing upon the earth) telling his dsciples not to call anyone on earth God? He even makes it clear to include himself as one of those people not to call Father or God, because he says clearly.... even Christ.

No God is not weak. By willingly letting himself be scourged, humiliated and crucified, I think He showed tremendous strength!

To say that God has been scourged/humiliated and crucified is insane. I just can't understand how you believe that this could happen to God. Jesus said on the cross as he looked up in the sky;

Oh God... God.... Why have you forsaken me?

Tell me... how could this possibly be the words and actions of God Himself? It's just not logical.

Many Christians (including me) believe that Jesus is God. We also He believe is also fully human. That's why He was born to a woman as a baby. Grew up. It's why He experienced human emotions, pains, temptations, hunger, thirst, and of course, bodily functions, etc...

Many Christians don't believe this.... which Chrsitian is right? Every Christian reads the same Holy Bible, but yet there are so many different views. Although there are sunnis and shiats, that is a political difference, we believe and follow the religion the same way. God can't be human, God has made it clear that we couldn't comprehend him or understand what or who He is, our minds can't grasp it just yet... this again is explained in your Bilble.

Jesus prayed to God, yes. Though He lamented what was to come, He also achnowledged that He needed to fulfill the Father's will.

So did Moses, Muhammed, Noah, Abraham, Adam and many other prophets. I to am fulfilling God's will.... everything that goes on in the world today is at the Will of God.

Your beliefs of what Christians believe is not what I believe. While the discussion of the Trinity is for another thread, I will point out that I do not split God into 3, but believe that the Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (Ghost) are 3 distinct, individual forms of one God.[

Exactly, three individual forms, therfore God is split into three, and you have taken away the oneness of God.

Yes, Deuteronomy speaks of Jesus as a Prophet. But it certainly does not limit Him to being just a Prophet. Why can't the Son of God be a Prophet as well as a Savior?

I guess so, but jesus said

Matthew19: 17-18
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, thats, God:

In this verse he asks why he was just called good? Only ONE is good, and that's God. He's telling them not to compare him with God or put him next to God. If he reacts in this way to someone calling him good, tell me Snowbear how do you feel he would react if you were to call him God?

In revelations it is said that many "believers in Christ" would come to Jesus and ask "Why will we be punished? When we prayed in your name, worshipped in your name and performed miracles in your name." Jesus reply to them is simple "You didn't even know me."

I believe in Jesus and love him very much, please know this. If it wasn't for him, there would be no Muhammed. I can't believe in Muhammed if I don't believe in Jesus. Just also try to understand that I cannot call him God or pray to him, because i would rather pray to ther person he prayed to and prostrated himself to.

Again, I am sorry for the late reply.... but it's the only time I have... i'm off to bed, good night Snowbear.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Sasa]

I'm not trying to be difficult, Sasa, but I'm afraid I still don't understand what you're getting at. Are you saying that, after death, these people will go to heaven and then, once they are actually with Jesus, they will accept Him and He will recognize that?

That's okay hun. It's a complicated thing to try and explain so please bear with me as well. The way I understand it is that it basically just all boils down to the fact that God knows what is in our hearts - regardless of if we were ever given the opportunity to accept Christ in our physical life or not - a humble heart will accept him after death. I honestly don't know any better way to say it, so I apologize if I'm not being clear enough.

 

[Katzpur]

That's okay hun. It's a complicated thing to try and explain so please bear with me as well. The way I understand it is that it basically just all boils down to the fact that God knows what is in our hearts - regardless of if we were ever given the opportunity to accept Christ in our physical life or not - a humble heart will accept him after death. I honestly don't know any better way to say it, so I apologize if I'm not being clear enough.

Thanks, Sasa. I think I understand you now. That's just a different perspective than I've heard before. It's not the same as mine, but it does at least involve a loving God.

 

[Sasa]

a loving God.

That, He most definitely is my friend.

 

[Snowbear]

Ezzedea ~ I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I only tried to explain to you what my beliefs are and where I get them. I don't care if agree or not... in fact, I assumed you would not agree, since you are a muslim. But to say that what I believe is:

... insane...

is insulting and mean-spirited. Therefore, I'm not interested in continuing this or any other "discussion" with you.

 

[Ezzedean]

Ezzedea ~ I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I only tried to explain to you what my beliefs are and where I get them. I don't care if agree or not... in fact, I assumed you would not agree, since you are a muslim. But to say that what I believe is: is insulting and mean-spirited. Therefore, I'm not interested in continuing this or any other "discussion" with you.

I was in no way trying to convince you of anything either, I was just showing my points and why I believe what I believe, just as you were. I

The quote you are referring to was;

To say that God has been scourged/humiliated and crucified is insane.

I used the word insane but I was not using it in it's literal context. I definately didn't mean... "To say that God has been scourged/humiliated and crucified is mentally disordered."

In no way was I trying to insult you. I'm 21 and the slang we young kids use today is a little out there. I will call a great movie... a sick movie.. now the movie isn't actually ill. I will call a good time, a solid time... but the good time wasn't actually rock hard. I said insane, but it wasn't actually mentally disordered.... I guess Mind Boggeling, unbelievable, or shocking would have been a better word to use for you to understand what I really meant.


I'm very sorry if I offended you, but you were misunderstood with what I was saying. I was in no way saying that your beliefs were mentally disordered, I have expressed my ut-most respect for your faith on this very thread aswell as many others before this, and I wouldn't say such a thing about your faith. Please accept my apology, and please don't sway away from having any kind of discussion with me again due to this misunderstanding.

Peace and Blessings Snowbear.

 

[Elvendon]

I don't think it works in as juristic a sense as normally is considered - it isn't a case of God sending us to heaven or hell based on what we deserve, or which theological tidbit we have swallowed.

Instead, "judgement" is our response to the love of God - love applies to everyone equally - God doesn't love or hate people based on how they behave any more than my parents love or hate me based on how well I do at school. The afterlife, from death onwards, even beyond the resurrection, is like a sea of love into which we are all plunged. Being in a state of "heaven" or "hell" is more a response to this love. Good Christians devoted to God are able to spend an eternity growing closer and stronger in God's love. Sinners however are tortured due to their own guilt and resentment of God's infinate love and goodness.

Why doesn't God change unbelievers so that they are not tortured? Because he has pledged never to transgress our free will, and so he cannot change our minds by coercion.