Please provide scriptural references for this assertion. Everlasting death is continuous and also fits your definition. But the ancient Jews did not beliebve in an immortal soul, so there can be no consciousness in death. (Eccl 9:5, 6 10.) When we breathe our last, we no longer have thought processes. (Psalm 146:4) How can a soul fail to think if it still lives? How can it not love?
Yes, exactly. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. This is what the Bible teaches.
Gehenna is a death from which no one returns. The lake of fire is also a symbol of everlasting destruction.
Why does God need to keep the wicked alive only to torture them forever. This is not the conduct of a loving God. And the punishment does not fit the crime. The whole idea is contrary to God's perfect justice.
The wicked are destroyed. (John 3:16) And the sleep of death even for the unrighteous is not forever.
Just as Jesus woke Lazarus from his "sleep" so Jesus will awaken the dead. (John 11:11-14)
Paul wrote....
"13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. " (1 Thess 4:13-16 NASB)
According to Paul, no one is raised until "the coming of the Lord"...Those "dead in Christ" (anointed Christians) were to rise "first"....so that means all were to "sleep" in their graves until Christ returned to take them "home".
Scriptural references please. According to Ezek 18:4....souls die. Solomon said that humans have no advantage over animals when it comes to dying. (Eccl 3:19, 20)
Not at all!
The "blessed hope" that is laid out in the Bible, does not rely on an immortal soul......it relies on the resurrection. There are two different ones spoken about in the scriptures. The "first resurrection" is for those who will rule with Christ in his kingdom. (Rev 20:6) Only those with "the heavenly calling' (Heb 3:1) are privileged to have that hope.
And as Paul states above, they do not rise until Christ's return, so they were all to "sleep in death" until that time. Why is that so hard to understand? Is being asleep such a bad thing? Can you imagine those we have lost in death, up in heaven looking down on us and being heartbroken at what is taking place down here, with no way to stop it. if that were the case, how could heaven be a happy place?
The other resurrection takes place on earth. Jesus calls "both the righteous and the unrighteous" from their graves, back to mortal human life on earth. (John 5:28, 29) These then have the services of heavenly kings and priests to guide and direct them on the road to life. The kingdom rules for 1,000 years, after which things will return to the way they were before Adam sinned.
The whole purpose of God's kingdom is to reconcile fallen mankind with God through Christ's ransom. A relatively small number of Christians go to heaven and the rest will enjoy life on earth in paradise conditions under their rulership. How is that not a happy prospect? The first paradise was here on earth and this is where God put us. If he had wanted us in heaven, why didn't he just create us there?
There have been many good points made in these posts e.g. it is true that men were created " a living soul". Most references to men as "soul" refer to the whole being of man. So it is more proper to view a person as a immaterial soul possessing a physical body. But that there is a "dualism" can be confirmed in places such as Matt.10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." BTW "destroy" here (as well as Jn.3:15-16) is apollumi "The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being but of well-being". "The loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter" 3c Strong's Exhaustive Concordance see also TDNT-1:394, 67, BAGD-95a, THAYER-64c.
You state: "But the ancient Jews did not beliebve(sic) in an immortal soul, so there can be no consciousness in death." To assert that because the "ancient Jews did not believe" as an example of your final authority does not speak well of your foundation for the "ancient Jews" were notoriously an unbelieving people o God's revelation.
You may question: "Why does God need to keep the wicked alive only to torture them forever. This is not the conduct of a loving God. And the punishment does not fit the crime. The whole idea is contrary to God's perfect justice." But if you would have addressed the Scriptures I referenced instead of fleeing to Old Testament texts you could not avoid the clear admonition of our Lord Jesus Christ in Matt.25:31-46. "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” v.46
Matt.3:12 "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Matt.13:41-42, 49-50 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.49 So it will be at end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (ongoing conscious punishment)
Rev.21 "5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”6 Then He said to me It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part
will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (The second death is the ongoing, conscious punishment for unredeemed sinners separated from the presence of God and the redeemed) My definition of death has scriptural warrant.
You state: "Solomon said that humans have no advantage over animals when it comes to dying. (Eccl 3:19, 20) That is true when your worldview is the one Solomon is presenting in this book as the common one espoused by mankind alienated from God. The theme of this book is repeatedly stated for instance: Eccl.1:1 "Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” and "14 I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind." The Futility of All Endeavor, The Futility of Wisdom, The Futility of Pleasure and Possessions,The Futility of Labor,The Folly of Riches . All is vane and futile resulting in skepticism, cynicism and hedonism if your hope is only in this life (under the sun). Eccl.6:11 "For there are many words which increase futility. What
then is the advantage to a man? 12 For who knows what is good for a man during
his lifetime,
during the few years of his futile life? He will spend them like a shadow. For who can tell a man what will be after him under the sun?" After the Preacher - Solomon - discourses over 12 chapters describing the futility of a earthly focused life resulting in despair, to all to whom this sermon applies, he gives his verdict and his remedy - "12:13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Now I ask you again. If, as you assert, "There is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible." How do you respond to the vast amount of Biblical evidence to the contrary? No matter how one defines the intermediate state between physical death and the bodily resurrection e.g. the rich man and Lazarus prior to the resurrection of Christ, and for Christians subsequent to the resurrection of Christ as immediate. (2Cor.5:6 "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord 7 for we walk by faith not by sight 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."
There is no waiting time for Christians at death to be "present with the Lord". And there is no Scriptural warrant for a "special class" of 144,000 to experience His presence at death or at His coming.
1 Cor.15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Vishvavajra's response to mankind's ruin and God's remedy perfectly illustrates the innate rebellion in man's heart. God reveals man's lost condition through Scripture and in his conscience. If rejected? "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing" 1Cor.1:18a If received? "But to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor.1:18b
