Wolves in sheep's clothings when the light inside is darkness.

[Evie]

No, you misunderstood that.

Because of the constant change to different denominations, - ONE person can be counted multiple times inflating the numbers.

And then add all of us that were baptized and put on the lists - whom are not Christian.

Those who switch from Christian to other religions, etc. They are still on baptism lists.

It drops the numbers of Christians substantially.

*

That argument is so ...... Words fail me.

 

[Evie]

Don't think I stand up for Christian Churches. I stand on the Bible. I believe all churches to be institutions full of corruption greed and vice. God is not religion. And Jesus in God's word is a way of life not religiosity.

 

[Ingledsva]

Though it says serpent we know the Serpent lied. As Christ said " Satan is the FATHER of all lies" King James Bible
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So the serpent was clearly not of God in that he chose as many do today, to believe and follow the lies of Satan.
When do you think the first lie occurred?

The serpent lying or not isn't the question. The serpent is NOT called Satan in Tanakh.

The later religion came up with that. A later group saying something about an earlier one, - does not make it correct.

2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

What is your point here? YHVH tells him to do his job.

The texts, as shown, specifically says YHVH is responsible for it, - multiple times. They do not blame Satan in it.

Plainly, we see disaster brought upon the children of Job. His own body smote with sores and boils.
You understand not what God is showing here and how Christ puts an end to the accuser.
The bible shows clearly that Satan is a being.

I don't believe in Satan. However, who said the bible didn't consider Satan a being? I said Satan is a servant of YHVH in Tanakh, - not an evil autonomous being.

Our Jewish members have told you folks the same thing. And I showed the verses where he does his job and brings people before YHVH to condemn them.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"

King James Bible
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Work it out... where did the demons and evil spirits come from?

Obviously you haven't looked up the theological use there. Satan also mean an adversary. And is noted as such in these.

"and one of you is a devil? or like to one, is a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer, as the devil is from the beginning; all which Judas was, and appeared to be, in the betraying of his master. ..." John Gills exposition of the entire Bible

"Is a devil - Has the spirit, the envy, the malice, and the treasonable designs of a devil. The word "devil" here is used in the sense of an enemy, or one hostile to him." Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible.

The word satan is used the same way in some of the Tanakh verses, and NOT as a being.

You think you know so many things but the truth does not support you having any knowledge.
Tel us all what you believe about the evil forces of the world and why they exist.
Evil spirits were around before Christ born so what are you going to use to explain the existence of evil?

Humans don't need an evil being to hang their evil on. Some humans are just evil all on their own.

*

 

[Evie]

The serpent lying or not isn't the question. The serpent is NOT called Satan in Tanakh.

The later religion came up with that. A later group saying something about an earlier one, - does not make it correct.



What is your point here? YHVH tells him to do his job.

The texts, as shown, specifically says YHVH is responsible for it, - multiple times. They do not blame Satan in it.



I don't believe in Satan. However, who said the bible didn't consider Satan a being? I said Satan is a servant of YHVH in Tanakh, - not an evil autonomous being.

Our Jewish members have told you folks the same thing. And I showed the verses where he does his job and brings people before YHVH to condemn them.



Obviously you haven't looked up the theological use there. Satan also mean an adversary. And is noted as such in these.

"and one of you is a devil? or like to one, is a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer, as the devil is from the beginning; all which Judas was, and appeared to be, in the betraying of his master. ..." John Gills exposition of the entire Bible

"Is a devil - Has the spirit, the envy, the malice, and the treasonable designs of a devil. The word "devil" here is used in the sense of an enemy, or one hostile to him." Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible.

The word satan is used the same way in some of the Tanakh verses, and NOT as a being.



Humans don't need an evil being to hang their evil on. Some humans are just evil all on their own.

*

Well said Ingledsva

 

[Ingledsva]

That argument is so ...... Words fail me.

Not my argument - though I agree with it. It was from a Pew Research Center poll.

*

 

[Evie]

Well said Ingledsva

Ok. I don't even know for certain, only going by reports. But it is more likely to be right than not. Not something to dwell on anyway.

 

[Evie]

Ok. I don't even know for certain, only going by reports. But it is more likely to be right than not. Not something to dwell on anyway.

It is good when something is presented on the Forum which causes people to weigh it up in their mind. Some things I found really interesting, but when I tried to refer back to them they were no longer there.

 

[Evie]

It is good when something is presented on the Forum which causes people to weigh it up in their mind. Some things I found really interesting, but when I tried to refer back to them they were no longer there.

There was one yesterday where someone was writing about STan. Called him a maleficent being or something like that. I have searched all through and cannot find it. There was nothing offensive or rude in the post which would warrant its removal. It was from. 'Aint necessarily so' I think.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God, which is a good thing. On the other hand, religion is a catalyst which brings so many of mankind's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. In a multilevel classroom, a catalyst for learning can be included in the system of learning.

As I see it, as mankind grows in knowledge, intelligence, and wisdom through this multilevel education process, mankind will walk closer and closer to the Real God. At some point, religion will become obsolete. mankind will not rely of beliefs as more and more facts will be discovered.

As I see it, it has never ever been about good verses evil, sinning, condemning, judging, hating, controlling, coercing, believing, following or accepting. It's about God educating His children to a higher level where these things will no longer be a viable choice. In the process, we are Living our Lessons.

To what end if you remove the truths God already given to us?

As man has grown in knowledge and as you say 'intelligence' we have created the most evil weapons and done some evil things.
You really believe that manmade knowledge and intelligence makes for a better world?
Look around you... it tears apart the very fabric of society where people become irreligious and even their own family are no longer important to them in a lot of cases.

In truth it is all about the evil and good in mankind. It is about learning that we must value life and our fellow man as God does.

 

[Evie]

To what end if you remove the truths God already given to us?

As man has grown in knowledge and as you say 'intelligence' we have created the most evil weapons and done some evil things.
You really believe that manmade knowledge and intelligence makes for a better world?
Look around you... it tears apart the very fabric of society where people become irreligious and even their own family are no longer important to them in a lot of cases.

In truth it is all about the evil and good in mankind. It is about learning that we must value life and our fellow man as God does.

. Not a bad line of thought; but I do not think the 'education angle' is the real reason the system of religious beliefs exist.

 

[RESOLUTION]

The point there is that the book is supposed to be from God, - yet it allows you to keep and breed slave, rape women, murder the innocent, etc.

That is not from a God.

*

You don't have a point.
The book is from God and it reflects the times from which these people came.
People who murdered their own children to sacrifice to foreign idols.
You see truth includes everything and why such things existed. Mankind has done such evil things.
6 million Jews murdered. In the last century. Christians being murdered all over the world today.
LOVE your neighbour as you love yourself.

The fact is it does not allow for women to be raped.
But it never stopped men of any nation in any war. But today, it would be looked down upon and even charges brought against such men.

Genesis 34:1-31. When Dinah raped they exact a revenge where even the innocent are slain.
So mankind make their own choices. Evil exists because men do not obey God not the other way around.

If you want to debate then look at the whole of the truth and not your version or others for that matter.

 

[Evie]

The serpent lying or not isn't the question. The serpent is NOT called Satan in Tanakh.

The later religion came up with that. A later group saying something about an earlier one, - does not make it correct.



What is your point here? YHVH tells him to do his job.

The texts, as shown, specifically says YHVH is responsible for it, - multiple times. They do not blame Satan in it.



I don't believe in Satan. However, who said the bible didn't consider Satan a being? I said Satan is a servant of YHVH in Tanakh, - not an evil autonomous being.

Our Jewish members have told you folks the same thing. And I showed the verses where he does his job and brings people before YHVH to condemn them.



Obviously you haven't looked up the theological use there. Satan also mean an adversary. And is noted as such in these.

"and one of you is a devil? or like to one, is a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer, as the devil is from the beginning; all which Judas was, and appeared to be, in the betraying of his master. ..." John Gills exposition of the entire Bible

"Is a devil - Has the spirit, the envy, the malice, and the treasonable designs of a devil. The word "devil" here is used in the sense of an enemy, or one hostile to him." Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible.

The word satan is used the same way in some of the Tanakh verses, and NOT as a being.



Humans don't need an evil being to hang their evil on. Some humans are just evil all on their own.

*

Maybe you could come up with a viable answer to my next question. God is generally accepted as being ALL GOOD. All knowing, omnipotent. This being so, and I personally believe it is, how can anything bad be brought out from something ALL GOOD? Remembering that Scripture states 'in the beginning God'. Before anything else, God.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Actually you have a lot of incorrect info there.

1. The Hebrew - just like most of the nations - held and bred slaves. The problem is claiming a true wonderful God, and then having the RIGHT to rape women, breed slaves, murder the innocent, in that God's supposed dictation.

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Breeding of slave to pass on.)

2. Only Hebrew indentured servants - mostly MALE ( as female slaves often were used for sex, and it says they can't just dump them after that)- could be released after seven years.

3. It was not Christians whom abolished slavery. Many people including Christians, came together in a new understanding of human rights. And they obviously had to fight for it. Slave owning Christians were using the Bible to prove their right to own slaves.

4. Slavery was abolished in many countries BEFORE it was abolished in the USA.

*

Ingledsva,
The bible does not hold your view. See last post.

It makes no odds where or when abolished because slavery was a human way and it had always been so.
Just as you have no arguments concerning today because we do not have slaves it is irrelevant as the times were also different then.

I find killing children by the pagans who sacrificed them to idols more hateful and disturbing than rape.
If you look at the bible this was not a thing God wanted for himself. He abhorred the very thought of sacrificing children
whatever their reason.

Again they do not practice this, the pagans have tried to remove it from their history in modern paganism.

Nothing relevant to Christianity or Judaism tofay. However, you could still speak about the Muslim Countries where Islam allows homosexuals, adulterers and any thiefs to be stoned
to death or be decapitated. Why not move on to what is happening today in the world? Actual wolves in sheeps clothing that are reality.
In the times of the OT, the people were callous and nothing like people today. So is it surprising there had to be rules which stopped them going too far whilst hard hearted?

 

[RESOLUTION]

The serpent lying or not isn't the question. The serpent is NOT called Satan in Tanakh.

The later religion came up with that. A later group saying something about an earlier one, - does not make it correct.



What is your point here? YHVH tells him to do his job.

The texts, as shown, specifically says YHVH is responsible for it, - multiple times. They do not blame Satan in it.



I don't believe in Satan. However, who said the bible didn't consider Satan a being? I said Satan is a servant of YHVH in Tanakh, - not an evil autonomous being.

Our Jewish members have told you folks the same thing. And I showed the verses where he does his job and brings people before YHVH to condemn them.



Obviously you haven't looked up the theological use there. Satan also mean an adversary. And is noted as such in these.

"and one of you is a devil? or like to one, is a deceiver, a liar, and a murderer, as the devil is from the beginning; all which Judas was, and appeared to be, in the betraying of his master. ..." John Gills exposition of the entire Bible

"Is a devil - Has the spirit, the envy, the malice, and the treasonable designs of a devil. The word "devil" here is used in the sense of an enemy, or one hostile to him." Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible.

The word satan is used the same way in some of the Tanakh verses, and NOT as a being.



Humans don't need an evil being to hang their evil on. Some humans are just evil all on their own.

*

You are uneducated in the way of the bible and the teachings of God. One can only expect the above reply when a person has not studied the bible.

The devil is a person.

 

[Evie]

Ingledsva,
The bible does not hold your view. See last post.

It makes no odds where or when abolished because slavery was a human way and it had always been so.
Just as you have no arguments concerning today because we do not have slaves it is irrelevant as the times were also different then.

I find killing children by the pagans who sacrificed them to idols more hateful and disturbing than rape.
If you look at the bible this was not a thing God wanted for himself. He abhorred the very thought of sacrificing children
whatever their reason.

Again they do not practice this, the pagans have tried to remove it from their history in modern paganism.

Nothing relevant to Christianity or Judaism tofay. However, you could still speak about the Muslim Countries where Islam allows homosexuals, adulterers and any thiefs to be stoned
to death or be decapitated. Why not move on to what is happening today in the world? Actual wolves in sheeps clothing that are reality.
In the times of the OT, the people were callous and nothing like people today. So is it surprising there had to be rules which stopped them going too far whilst hard hearted?

But the USA DID abolish slavery whether first or not. And progressed. Unlike some who cling to their antiquated religious beliefs. Could this be because of the 'benefits' to males.? More than likely it is. The younger generation of males want to enjoy what their forefathers enjoyed. And the women with no rights.

 

[RESOLUTION]

. Not a bad line of thought; but I do not think the 'education angle' is the real reason the system of religious beliefs exist.

It was not what I was saying.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I actually wrote:-

You really believe that man made knowledge and intelligence makes for a better world?

As Genesis reveals, faith in God exists because he was with man in the beginning.

 

[Evie]

T

You are uneducated in the way of the bible and the teachings of God. One can only expect the above reply when a person has not studied the bible.

The devil is a person.

There is no verse in the Bible that i know of which states that the devil is a person. If there is, please enlighten me.

 

[RESOLUTION]

But the USA DID abolish slavery whether first or not. And progressed. Unlike some who cling to their antiquated religious beliefs. Could this be because of the 'benefits' to males.? More than likely it is. The younger generation of males want to enjoy what their forefathers enjoyed. And the women with no rights.

I stated that in my other post about USA abolishing slavery so why tell me?
Man left the way of God a long time ago, Made religion about themselves rather than the truth God taught.

In Christ there is no male or female. We are all made equal inheritors through the power of Gods Spirit within us.
Because Gods power through the Spirit is not lessened by him dwelling in male or female. All equal heirs in Christ together.

 

[Evie]

It was not what I was saying.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I actually wrote:-


As Genesis reveals, faith in God exists because he was with man in the beginning.

No I don't believe that such makes for a better world.

 

[Evie]

It was not what I was saying.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I actually wrote:-


As Genesis reveals, faith in God exists because he was with man in the beginning.

No, I don't believe such makes for a better world.