Wolves in sheep's clothings when the light inside is darkness.

[Evie]

Maybe mankind is better off believing the devil is a person, walking around. But I am about truth. I choose not to live a life believing what is untrue. I joined this forum to hear what others believe as truth and to share what I believe as true. Even scripture states: 'seek the truth and the truth shall set you free'. When beliefs differ, then people have to choose from what 'beliefs' are on the table, or not choose any of them. To keep on searching.

 

[Ingledsva]

You don't have a point.
The book is from God and it reflects the times from which these people came.
People who murdered their own children to sacrifice to foreign idols.
You see truth includes everything and why such things existed. Mankind has done such evil things.
6 million Jews murdered. In the last century. Christians being murdered all over the world today.
LOVE your neighbour as you love yourself.

The fact is it does not allow for women to be raped.
But it never stopped men of any nation in any war. But today, it would be looked down upon and even charges brought against such men.

Genesis 34:1-31. When Dinah raped they exact a revenge where even the innocent are slain.
So mankind make their own choices. Evil exists because men do not obey God not the other way around.

If you want to debate then look at the whole of the truth and not your version or others for that matter.

Yes I do have a point. We have had many threads on this subject.

It is not reflecting others doing this. I specifically said their Tanakh - supposedly from God - says they can do these things.

This is not irrelevant as a God supposedly dictated the Laws. That evil puts the reality of that God in question.

It definitely allowed for women to be raped.

How do you see giving a female slave to a male, and then keeping the resulting children as more slaves? That alone is rape.

What do you think concubines are? Sex Slaves. Do you think the women were thinking - gee I would loved to be a slave bought by any old man for sex? It is rape.

Jewish sites will tell you that they were allowed to rape in war - even the priests.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

You are uneducated in the way of the bible and the teachings of God. One can only expect the above reply when a person has not studied the bible.

The devil is a person.

You are misunderstanding. I did not say Satan was, or was not, a being, in Tanakh.

I said the obvious, pointed out by both Jewish and Christian theologians, - that the word has several meanings, and not all Tanakh verses using the word satan are using it as a name/being. Same thing in the NT.

Forgot to add - The two quotes I showed proving this point - were from CHRISTIAN theologians.

*

 

[Evie]

Yes I do have a point. We have had many threads on this subject.

It is not reflecting others doing this. I specifically said their Tanakh - supposedly from God - says they can do these things.

This is not irrelevant as a God supposedly dictated the Laws. That evil puts the reality of that God in question.

It definitely allowed for women to be raped.

How do you see giving a female slave to a male, and then keeping the resulting children as more slaves? That alone is rape.

What do you think concubines are? Sex Slaves. Do you think the women were thinking - gee I would loved to be a slave bought by any old man for sex? It is rape.

Jewish sites will tell you that they were allowed to rape in war - even the priests.

*

Whoever made the statement re concubines I have to agree with. In defining what is good and what is bad, how could either good or bad be defined if only one existed. One defines the other. Consider the 10 Commandments; an assortment of do's and dont's.

 

[Evie]

I

Whoever made the statement re concubines I have to agree with. In defining what is good and what is bad, how could either good or bad be defined if only one existed. One defines the other. Consider the 10 Commandments; an assortment of do's and dont's.

If there exists no comparison to good, how could something be counted as good? And if there exists no comparison to bad, how can something be counted as bad? Until there existed defining lines as to what is to be believed as good and what is to be believed as bad, people were left to their own devices. So, before such defining lines came into existence, can the people behaving 'badly' be held accountable?

 

[Nigel]

With respect Nigel, When have you ever seen light and darkness in existence at the same time in one place?

The obvious answer is a black hole. But if you want to talk about an imaginary magical beardy bloke that lives in the sky. God is everything, including all knowledge , all the time. He created everything. When there was nothing , just god, what did god make things out of? Well there is nothing, thoughts and GOD. We can discount nothing because even if it was nothing, as soon as GOD applied his thoughts to nothing, they were no longer nothing.

As GOD's thoughts are GOD. The answer is GOD created existence out of itself.

Evil exists, in your world view, therefore GOD created evil. That means a part of GOD is evil.

Darkness made with light.

 

[Evie]

The obvious answer is a black hole. But if you want to talk about an imaginary magical beardy bloke that lives in the sky. God is everything, including all knowledge , all the time. He created everything. When there was nothing , just god, what did god make things out of? Well there is nothing, thoughts and GOD. We can discount nothing because even if it was nothing, as soon as GOD applied his thoughts to nothing, they were no longer nothing.

As GOD's thoughts are GOD. The answer is GOD created existence out of itself.

Evil exists, in your world view, therefore GOD created evil. That means a part of GOD is evil.

Darkness made with light.

Yesterday I posted how 'satan' is most probably not a person, as religion would have people believe. I gave the actual Hebrew and it is 'the satan' and does not mean a separate force of evil. But is within the mind of man. I went into a long explanation. But it is no longer on the forum.

 

[Evie]

Yesterday I posted how 'satan' is most probably not a person, as religion would have people believe. I gave the actual Hebrew and it is 'the satan' and does not mean a separate force of evil. But is within the mind of man. I went into a long explanation. But it is no longer on the forum.

But your post suggests that darkness was made with light. As that cannot be so, where does that leave the question of bad. Light does not diminish, does not become less when it casts shadows. Lucifer was cast out of heaven wasn't he. Cast from eternal light. And shadows have no claim to reality, their only existence is as reflections of what are real. I wrote about this at one time. Maybe you can give your thoughts on this possibility.

 

[Evie]

But your post suggests that darkness was made with light. As that cannot be so, where does that leave the question of bad. Light does not diminish, does not become less when it casts shadows. Lucifer was cast out of heaven wasn't he. Cast from eternal light. And shadows have no claim to reality, their only existence is as reflections of what are real. I wrote about this at one time. Maybe you can give your thoughts on this possibility.

 

[Evie]

Yesterday I explained in full how the mind of mankind was once in a 'virginal' state, but it was 'seduced' by words which caused a false belief to be born. I quoted scriptures explaining how it all tied in with Adam. And how mankind inherited the now non- virginal mind. And how Jesus was not born if Adam 's seed so did not inherit the corrupted non-virginal mind. And Jesus mind was pure and Jesus did not succumb to seductive words as Adam did. I provided scripture stating. 'A new mind I put in you' that being for all those who although having inherited
The non- virginal mind of Adam, can have their mind renewed by belief in Jesus. But the post is no longer there.

 

[Evie]

Yesterday I explained in full how the mind of mankind was once in a 'virginal' state, but it was 'seduced' by words which caused a false belief to be born. I quoted scriptures explaining how it all tied in with Adam. And how mankind inherited the now non- virginal mind. And how Jesus was not born if Adam 's seed so did not inherit the corrupted non-virginal mind. And Jesus mind was pure and Jesus did not succumb to seductive words as Adam did. I provided scripture stating. 'A new mind I put in you' that being for all those who although having inherited
The non- virginal mind of Adam, can have their mind renewed by belief in Jesus. But the post is no longer there.

 

[Evie]

If the devil were a person, why was it all by suggestions that Jesus was tempted in the wilderness. Did the devil hand out bread for Jesus to take? No, the devil suggested Jesus turn the stones to bread. Suggested Jesus throw Himself from the high mountain. All done via suggestion. And Jesus did not succumb to any. But Adam did, was seduced by suggestive words. Subsequently, humanity inherited the susceptibility to being seduced by words.

 

[RESOLUTION]

God has the sum of all knowledge. The more knowledge one acquires, brings one closer to Understanding and to God. That is knowledge in any and all fields, not just religion.

Religion has corrupted your view. The world is marching forward and getting better. Look at your religion in the middle ages. It was a lot different creature back then. Knowledge and understanding changes the view.

So you do not believe in survival of the fittest?
God changed the views especially through the Jewish religion. But man has not really changed look at the fighting for power in the world and the Holocaust of the last century.
Look at the nerve gas released on men women and children causing awful and painful deaths.
The world deceives itself, it is not hard to do.


[QUOTE}
You ask what of the knowledge God has already given us. As I see it, all religious beliefs are creations of mankind even though some truth does exit in all holy books. God has placed truth all around us. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. Who can discover? God does not tell anyone. God allows His children to Live their Lessons and discover the truth for themselves. Unlike some religions, God will never intimidate your choices.[/QUOTE]

How can secrets stare you in the face? Nothing which is secret can be seen?
God tells us what we need to know. But you need to know God in order to know the things he has for us.

Good and Evil? When one fully understands them, evil will no longer be a viable choice. Understanding does not come from being told, threatened or coerced. Understanding comes from the discovery of what your choices really mean. This must take some bad choices.

Evil could only stop being a choice if a man could not choose. Until then man has to choose to do evil. Whilst the choice remains and free will then man of his natural sinful state can choose wrong. When a man believes in God and receives the Baptism he then can choose right more.

In a multilevel classroom, some students learn then move on, leaving room for fresh students in need of a good education. As I see it, God's Goal is much different than mankind's goal. Who will win the struggle? That answer is easy. Brains win in the end.

Not worked for atheists so far, has it. Brains not won out in the end? Are you saying those who dropped nerve gas and had the 'power', 'money' and 'ability' to do it was not using their Brain?

The evil within a person decides how they use their brain and what actions they pursue.

 

[Nigel]

Yesterday I posted how 'satan' is most probably not a person, as religion would have people believe. I gave the actual Hebrew and it is 'the satan' and does not mean a separate force of evil. But is within the mind of man. I went into a long explanation. But it is no longer on the forum.

When you think about, eating the apple of knowledge of good and evil, falling from a state of innocence, refers to gaining self awareness.

The serpant symbology is found all over the world and I think it has something to do with that part of us that can perceive the unseen and unknown. The mystical part of humanity capable of gleaning useful information, from intuition, dreams, the imagination, drug induced halucinations, premonitions etc. Creativity in other words.

You might agree being successfully evil would require a bit of creativity.

It is connected with the serpentine appearance of lightning, rainbows, magma flows. The theme being energy from the earth / sky that the creative shamanistic mind could tap into.

So why are we not overrun by magic wielding shamans? Because we killed them all. However art, music, new ideas of all kinds, in science and philosophy have their roots in thoughts generated by an electronic circuit called a central nervous system. The serpant within us.

 

[RESOLUTION]

The obvious answer is a black hole.

Not even in a black hole have YOU actually seen light and darkness exist at the same time. It is impossible for darkness and light to exist in the same place.
Christ even said about your light being darkness.
How do you see a persons light being dark?

But if you want to talk about an imaginary magical beardy bloke that lives in the sky. God is everything, including all knowledge , all the time. He created everything. When there was nothing , just god, what did god make things out of? Well there is nothing, thoughts and GOD. We can discount nothing because even if it was nothing, as soon as GOD applied his thoughts to nothing, they were no longer nothing.

Only you can talk about such an imaginary bearded bloke in the sky. WE are not nothing and until you can explain how we came to be in a dark universe void of life outside this planet
haven't you really been left with egg on your face. After all, the only reasonable answer so far is " God did it".
It is harder to explain what is, than what you believe isn't in the stead of your belief.

As GOD's thoughts are GOD. The answer is GOD created existence out of itself.

Evil exists, in your world view, therefore GOD created evil. That means a part of GOD is evil.

Darkness made with light.

Whereas the absent of answers is what make God the only possible.

What no man has yet realised is that they do not have an answer to how the first life came about on this planet.
The first man and woman lived with God their creator. The tower of babel explains the different languages and also the fact mankind no matter where they are found have a belief
in a creator.

Lines get blurred but now God sends the eternal message for all to be saved. And his purpose with the law was to teach us right and wrong and that love creates harmony and
brings life.

Sometimes the truth to obvious no matter how simple.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ingledsva,The bible does not hold your view. See last post.

It makes no odds where or when abolished because slavery was a human way and it had always been so.
Just as you have no arguments concerning today because we do not have slaves it is irrelevant as the times were also different then.

It is not irrelevant - as Christians hold it as the word of God, - evil Laws and all.

You folks expect us to fall in under this God that allowed this evil. People keep saying just read the Bible. Well, I have studied the Bible, and the evil done by the God - such as the murder of the innocent for the supposed crimes of adults, - and rape, slavery, etc., allowed by that God for the followers, tells me it is not actually God.

I find killing children by the pagans who sacrificed them to idols more hateful and disturbing than rape.
If you look at the bible this was not a thing God wanted for himself. He abhorred the very thought of sacrificing children
whatever their reason.
Again they do not practice this, the pagans have tried to remove it from their history in modern paganism.

Actually here again we have misinformation.

The Hebrew also originally offered the First Born as a sacrifice to God.

So ALL the religions of Abraham have tried to remove it from their history.

Nothing relevant to Christianity or Judaism tofay. However, you could still speak about the Muslim Countries where Islam allows homosexuals, adulterers and any thiefs to be stoned
to death or be decapitated. Why not move on to what is happening today in the world? Actual wolves in sheeps clothing that are reality.
In the times of the OT, the people were callous and nothing like people today. So is it surprising there had to be rules which stopped them going too far whilst hard hearted?

And some Christians today are calling for the same things.

And up until recently - gay people were denied jobs, housing, adopting children, etc.

Up to today they are still being denied services, abused, and murdered.

They commit suicide at alarming rates because of the stress put on them by Christians and other homophobes.

What do you mean by that last "had to be rules" sentence?

*

 

[Nigel]

But your post suggests that darkness was made with light. As that cannot be so, where does that leave the question of bad. Light does not diminish, does not become less when it casts shadows. Lucifer was cast out of heaven wasn't he. Cast from eternal light. And shadows have no claim to reality, their only existence is as reflections of what are real. I wrote about this at one time. Maybe you can give your thoughts on this possibility.

I think the problem here is equating darkness and light with good and evil, what we are actually asking is where did evil come from? It is more like GOD has part of it that is evil, corrupted, like gold ore that has pieces of dirt and Clay bound up in it.

That which is pure can be described as being like light, shining with warmth and good in all respects. While that which is not gold, but corrupted and does not shine, it is not good, it is cold and dark. Together they are an entity called unrefined ore, GOD.

So when God created all that was good, the bad was also brought into being, released from the ore. To make a pure something implies a starting point of imperfection. As everything is made of GOD, that imperfection started with it.

When a craftsman creates an imperfect tool, we do not blame the tool.

 

[Nigel]

Which is why religion is so attractive to people because it allows them not only to blame the darkness inside themselves on an outside entity, they get to pass all responsibility for dealing with it on to their father that lives in heaven.

 

[Nigel]

Personally I think this is an ungodly attitude , we are supposed to be here for GOD , and most of you religious types keep asking him for things. Forgiveness, wisdom, health for your sick gold fish. What about what GOD wants?

Ever wonder why he does not want you to invade Jerusalem any more?

Maybe it's because he wants you to face the evil in yourself. To process it, to live and die better then the people before you. To refine the ore.

 

[Nigel]

I mean if GOD is perfect, why create anything at all. Perfection implies completeness.