Woman hits man on bus - watch video and decide....

[moodys]

She seemed petrified. She's certainly justified, that could have easily ended up with rape if the man decided to pursue her after she got off the bus. It looks like India as well perhaps, probably one of the worst areas of the world for woman. The fact that nobody gave it a second thought as he continued touching her really says it all.

 

[Me Myself]

Scum like this often revel in the idea that she might not do anything, despite noticing. The victim sometimes stays silent out of fear, shame or anything like that, especially in my culture.

In this case, i doubt the guy was expecting she wouldn't notice, since she looked at him and pushed his hand. I think he was particularly enjoying the victimization. He probably hoped that she would just continue to push his hand and stuff like that, without making a scene, in which case he would have continued to come back until he got his fill.

Thats exactly why the hitting was completely unnecessary and even to take a new danger if this was wrong.

I am not saying she shouldnt have hit him, I am saying what goes beyond self defense is an unnecessary danger, because there were many people there, if the guy indeed had friends and they saw him as in danger the thiing could have got very ugly.

A push/hit or two with a scandalous warning and pointing at him with the weapon as she warns (the umbrella) would have likely be enough for the assault to stop. Actually, keeping the scandal part up while going back might have been much better and traumathising for the assaulter than some extra umbrella hits.

The gang will just laugh it up after their bus trip.

 

[DallasApple]

The victim sometimes stays silent out of fear, shame or anything like that, especially in my culture.

That's true. In fact I used to be like that.

 

[DallasApple]

She seemed petrified. She's certainly justified, that could have easily ended up with rape if the man decided to pursue her after she got off the bus. It looks like India as well perhaps, probably one of the worst areas of the world for woman. The fact that nobody gave it a second thought as he continued touching her really says it all.

Also even during the commotion .The obvious commotion notice the bus driver just kept right on driving???

 

[Me Myself]

The scandal was her best weapon.

In her fear she overused the useless and potentially dangerous one for her and derused the best one

Raising scandal further and getting away from the man at the same time would also further protect her, while the umbrella thing could just enrage the guys to follow her after she gets out of the bus...

If its a gang of guys trying to do this they are more likely to be afraid by public notice and assaulting a woman everyone is seeing carefully than about a couple of umbrella hits against their bunch.

It just wasnt smart. The scandal was perfect, the extra assault on her part was plain dangerous.

 

[moodys]

And about Egypt, that is also unfortunately true. Beyond what we read in the international media about sexual attacks during the Egyptian revolution(s), my wife narrowly escaped being locked by a store owner in his shop in Cairo.

I can testify to this having been there some time ago. Egypt really is a piece of work, the expectations of such a throw-back culture needs urgent modernizing, it is not wise to let your wife walk around alone in Egyptian streets, it's better to be at her side which is ironically what some of the moslems in Egypt teach that women should have, a male chaperone.

 

[DallasApple]

Thats exactly why the hitting was completely unnecessary and even to take a new danger if this was wrong.

When in a state of extreme fear you aren't able to (most)rationalize and weigh/calculate your best options for safety like all logically.Her instinct it appeared was not to turn away from him making her vulnerable .

 

[Badran]

Bingo. And I also highlighted one of your lines which gives a great context. India is ripe with sexual harassments, and it is no surprise for women to take decisive action to protect their body or space.
And about Egypt, that is also unfortunately true. Beyond what we read in the international media about sexual attacks during the Egyptian revolution(s), my wife narrowly escaped being locked by a store owner in his shop in Cairo. A Jordanian man literally grabbed the breast of my friend from the university when we traveled there together. In Morocco, my wife actually cut the trip short because the way the local men prey on foreign women was too much for her.

That's horrible. I'm sorry your wife and her friend had to go through things like that.

So there are definitely regions that women need to stand up for their rights, space, freedom, safety and basic humanity even more than what most members here realize. When they say no, they need to make it understood just how decisive that NO is.
I traveled various third word countries, as a man I'm having an easy time. But some things I've witnessed that women (both local and foreign) have to go through is outrageous. Unfortunately I saw some nasty things in what we call first world nations too.

Agreed, and in there movement to defend themselves against such rampant assaults, my heart is definitely not going to bleed if these guys catch a smack or two more than 'necessary'.

I'd most likely laugh in glee instead. As i wouldn't view it as unnecessary. Rather completely understandable, much rightly deserved and is probably going to be useful too on a large scale, if it were to happen often to guys who do this.

 

[Me Myself]

When in a state of extreme fear you aren't able to (most)rationalize and weigh/calculate your best options for safety like all logically.Her instinct it appeared was not to turn away from him making her vulnerable .

Yes, as I said, her reaction came from fear.

I am just saying it wasnt the most optimal handling.

Since begining I said it aint big deal to hit someone in his cirucmstances for revenge, but as I saw it was a territorial fear thing, which while not morally condemnable it was very much less desirable given possible consequences.

If the situation was real I would only wish she had made a bigger scandal after she got her space. Maybe she did, that would have been good.

 

[Me Myself]

That's horrible. I'm sorry your wife and her friend had to go through things like that.



Agreed, and in there movement to defend themselves against such rampant assaults, my heart is definitely not going to bleed if these guys catch a smack or two more than 'necessary'.

I'd most likely laugh in glee instead. As i wouldn't view it as unnecessary. Rather completely understandable, much rightly deserved and is probably going to be useful too on a large scale, if it were to happen often to guys who do this.

Over beating a member of a group of people that my fight back might be fatal.

Specially if you laugh afterwards.

Scandals are the best defense if there are people around. If not, the best you can do is push back and then run. If it is just one and it is a dark street, I would incapacitate as possible at first unrequested contact and then run.

Those are different circumstances with different danger levels depending on different responses.

Safety comes first.

 

[Badran]

Thats exactly why the hitting was completely unnecessary and even to take a new danger if this was wrong.

I am not saying she shouldnt have hit him, I am saying what goes beyond self defense is an unnecessary danger, because there were many people there, if the guy indeed had friends and they saw him as in danger the thiing could have got very ugly.

A push/hit or two with a scandalous warning and pointing at him with the weapon as she warns (the umbrella) would have likely be enough for the assault to stop. Actually, keeping the scandal part up while going back might have been much better and traumathising for the assaulter than some extra umbrella hits.

The gang will just laugh it up after their bus trip.

Over beating a member of a group of people that my fight back might be fatal.

Specially if you laugh afterwards.

Scandals are the best defense if there are people around. If not, the best you can do is push back and then run. If it is just one and it is a dark street, I would incapacitate as possible at first unrequested contact and then run.

Those are different circumstances with different danger levels depending on different responses.

Safety comes first.

I think everyone realizes that her reaction is fueled by emotion rather than reason, so of course there might've been more safe ways to handle the situation. However, the point is that her reaction here was also justified, and actually worked. She put him in his place.

I can understand the concerns for safety and can also understand that what she did might not have been the best way to handle the situation, in regards to her own safety. What i was saying though was particularly addressing the idea of whether or not i feel what she did was justified.

 

[Alceste]

The scandal was her best weapon.

In her fear she overused the useless and potentially dangerous one for her and derused the best one

Raising scandal further and getting away from the man at the same time would also further protect her, while the umbrella thing could just enrage the guys to follow her after she gets out of the bus...

If its a gang of guys trying to do this they are more likely to be afraid by public notice and assaulting a woman everyone is seeing carefully than about a couple of umbrella hits against their bunch.

It just wasnt smart. The scandal was perfect, the extra assault on her part was plain dangerous.

You don't know she "overused" anything though. Look at how she managed to dominate the space, herd all the men toward the back of the bus, with the exit behind her, and clear space between. She ended up standing facing all the men with her "weapon" in between her and them and an escape route behind her. The position she maneuvered herself into was ideal for self defense in a situation where a large number of the men on the bus could all be perceived as a threat.

Think of the alternative, sit back down quietly and hope for the best, giving the men an opportunity to determine where they are going to position themselves and what they are going to do next.

The trouble is, you are assuming she was not at risk of any more than a little bit of uninvited fondling, so her reaction looks extreme to you. In fact, she was potentially at risk of being violently raped to death by all the men on the bus. It would have been reasonable for her to perceive that level of risk in India and react accordingly.

Making a lot of noise and a big scene is useful for creating confusion, controlling the event and putting people exactly where you want them to be.

Which is not to say I think she was acting rationally. I think self-defense is automatic, but it's always got to be a little extreme in order to be effective - especially if you are smaller than your attacker. You don't just want to stop an attacker's behavior for a moment, you need to completely change their mind about picking you for a victim, permanently.

 

[Me Myself]

I think everyone realizes that her reaction is fueled by emotion rather than reason, so of course there might've been more safe ways to handle the situation. However, the point is that her reaction here was also justified, and actually worked. She put him in his place.

I can understand the concerns for safety and can also understand that what she did might not have been the best way to handle the situation, in regards to her own safety. What i was saying though was particularly addressing the idea of whether or not i feel what she did was justified.

We don't know if it worked because we don't know if a) that was staged or b) the followed her afterwards.

It was best for society an cowing though.

I don't think it was "justified" but it is not condemnable either. She had her well being as priority and thats how it should have been.

 

[Alceste]

When in a state of extreme fear you aren't able to (most)rationalize and weigh/calculate your best options for safety like all logically.Her instinct it appeared was not to turn away from him making her vulnerable .

Exactly. If you've just been sitting quietly and minding your own business and got fondled and ground against, does it make any sense to sit back down and mind your own business some more?

 

[Alceste]

Yes, as I said, her reaction came from fear.

I am just saying it wasnt the most optimal handling.

Since begining I said it aint big deal to hit someone in his cirucmstances for revenge, but as I saw it was a territorial fear thing, which while not morally condemnable it was very much less desirable given possible consequences.

If the situation was real I would only wish she had made a bigger scandal after she got her space. Maybe she did, that would have been good.

I think you mistake the "possible consequences". Victims are not selected on the basis of how big a scene they make and how much they look willing to fight back. It's the opposite. Humans are lazy predators, just like any other animal. Victims are selected on the basis of looking like they are not capable or competent to defend themselves.

 

[Penumbra]

It looked justified to me. Some people have been violently raped on buses, and this guy was in her face purposely invading her personal space despite her clear intolerance for it.

If someone were to violate my personal space after being warned not to, I'd knock the wind out of him.

 

[Me Myself]

You don't know she "overused" anything though. Look at how she managed to dominate the space, herd all the men toward the back of the bus, with the exit behind her, and clear space between. She ended up standing facing all the men with her "weapon" in between her and them and an escape route behind her. The position she maneuvered herself into was ideal for self defense in a situation where a large number of the men on the bus could all be perceived as a threat.

Think of the alternative, sit back down quietly and hope for the best, giving the men an opportunity to determine where they are going to position themselves and what they are going to do next.

The trouble is, you are assuming she was not at risk of any more than a little bit of uninvited fondling, so her reaction looks extreme to you. In fact, she was potentially at risk of being violently raped to death by all the men on the bus. It would have been reasonable for her to perceive that level of risk in India and react accordingly.

Making a lot of noise and a big scene is useful for creating confusion, controlling the event and putting people exactly where you want them to be.

Which is not to say I think she was acting rationally. I think self-defense is automatic, but it's always got to be a little extreme in order to be effective - especially if you are smaller than your attacker. You don't just want to stop an attacker's behavior for a moment, you need to completely change their mind about picking you for a victim, permanently.

The bolded part is why I say it was her best weapon. I never said she should have sited back, that would have put her in a disadvantaged position again, but if the men around felt she was a real threat , someone could have taken her umbrella out of her, and given almost no one probably saw the sexual assault (which was purposefully stealthy to everyone but the victim) it could have been seen as reasonable given the lady kept hitting when the man didnt touch her.

Notice how he showed were his hands were the second she made a scandal. He was afraid of public reaction, so he kept space and showed hands so no one could think he was treating her badly since the moment were the attention actually is on him. We dont know the dialog but I would guess he was denying everything and she could have been saying that is bull and kept hitting him.

Push, take space when the man is showing everyone he took space and has his hands in places where they can be seen without rapid movements. Take space with umbrella looking at people while you keep making a scene and coockie points if she actually talks about how women have this problem every time on bus so public can get on her side and be enraged with her.

She has a lot of potential body guards there. If everyone is a gang raper in that bus she would already be ***** anyways. She needs scandal and people seeing her until she is on a safe zone,

 

[Me Myself]

I think you mistake the "possible consequences". Victims are not selected on the basis of how big a scene they make and how much they look willing to fight back. It's the opposite. Humans are lazy predators, just like any other animal. Victims are selected on the basis of looking like they are not capable or competent to defend themselves.

That is true, that is how they are selected. The problem is that predators also tend to have ego things, specially those in groups.

It is not by far uncommon that they want to strike back the girl now with the gang after she dared do that to them.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think you mistake the "possible consequences". Victims are not selected on the basis of how big a scene they make and how much they look willing to fight back. It's the opposite. Humans are lazy predators, just like any other animal. Victims are selected on the basis of looking like they are not capable or competent to defend themselves.

It's best in a potentially dangerous or life-threatening situation to assume the worst "possible consequences." If getting beaten, raped, or killed is realistically a "possible" consequence in a given situation, it's rather asinine to not act according to that possibility.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Th
It is not by far uncommon that they want to strike back the girl now with the gang after she dared do that to them.

I think this is a broadly accepted misconception which shows a lack of understanding of predators and bullies.